# I had a terrifying thought about Peter Jackson and LotR's/Hobbit movies **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 11, 2018, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-a-terrifying-thought-about-peter-jackson-and-lotrs-hobbit-movies/817733 "2018-07-11T17:38:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2018, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-a-terrifying-thought-about-peter-jackson-and-lotrs-hobbit-movies/817733/21 "2018-07-12T13:14:39Z")
> [@Textual\_Assault](#): > > I saw all the LotR’s movies in theater and saw the ultimate super exteded editions on DVD and I’ve seen more or less all of the Hobbit movies on tv. > > And seriously 3 3 hour long movies on the Hobbit? Jackson is like Tom Clancy, in desperate need of a strong editor who will say, "NO. > > But my thought was this, what if Jackson had done the 3 Hobbit movies first, he would have said to himself, "Shit if I can stretch out a kids book for 9 hours over three movies surely I can stretch out each of the LotR’s books for three movies at 3 hours apiece.:eek: > > The mind reels in terror. Jackson is a visionary directory who does action extremely well. I do like his films, but they aren’t balanced correctly and some of the sub plots that fill 3 hours would be better off just mentioned or implied to cut the movie down to 2 1/2 hours. Check out the cut scene in the battle of five armies where the Dwarf and Elfs actually fight for a while before the Orc army appears. I’m not sure why Peter cut that out of the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2018, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-a-terrifying-thought-about-peter-jackson-and-lotrs-hobbit-movies/817733/22 "2018-07-12T14:39:22Z")
> [@Filbert](#): > > Heard the BBC Radio adaptations? Not word for word, but well worth a listen if you haven’t. I was going to mention this myself. They’re really good. ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-a-terrifying-thought-about-peter-jackson-and-lotrs-hobbit-movies/817733/23 "2018-07-13T12:43:26Z")
I finished reading _The Hobbit_ to my son a bit ago (want him to know the story at the same age I did!) and have no plan of him seeing the movies for a few years. There’s just so many additional things going on. If they did _The Hobbit_ first, I’d partially fear that if a 300 page kid/teen’s book became 9 hrs, what would happen to three of them?! btw, does anyone know the best way to watch the 70’s version of the movie? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-a-terrifying-thought-about-peter-jackson-and-lotrs-hobbit-movies/817733/24 "2018-07-13T12:59:01Z")
> [@Gedd](#): > > btw, does anyone know the best way to watch the 70’s version of the movie? High. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-a-terrifying-thought-about-peter-jackson-and-lotrs-hobbit-movies/817733/25 "2018-07-13T13:47:19Z")
You know… if Jackson didn’t actually want to make three movies, then why the hell did he make each one three hours long? ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-a-terrifying-thought-about-peter-jackson-and-lotrs-hobbit-movies/817733/26 "2018-07-13T14:05:23Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > The ideal nine-hour cinematic adaptation of _The Hobbit_ would have had Martin Freeman made up as Bilbo, sitting in his favorite chair in Bag End, _reading_ Tolkien’s novel to us. Do it as frame-story-and-flashbacks. The frame story is Ian Holm as Bilbo, telling the story to a group of Hobbit children (Four of whom bear a CGI-enhanced resemblance to Elijah Wood, Sean Astin, Dominic Monaghan, and Billy Boyd). Whenever the action scenes get too absurd, you cut back to Bilbo, exaggerating things to entertain the children. > [@Gedd](#): > > btw, does anyone know the best way to watch the 70’s version of the movie? You mean the Rankin-Bass version? I liked it. It is a children’s TV show based on a children’s book. Taken on its own terms, it is fine. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-a-terrifying-thought-about-peter-jackson-and-lotrs-hobbit-movies/817733/27 "2018-07-13T14:18:21Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > You mean the Rankin-Bass version? I liked it. It is a children’s TV show based on a children’s book. Taken on its own terms, it is fine. Agreed. If you bear in mind that it was made primarily for children, and that it’s 1970s-level animation, I think that it’s pretty true to the book (and its tone). I have it on DVD; I have no idea if it’s available on a streaming service, but I imagine that a hard copy is pretty easy to pick up. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-a-terrifying-thought-about-peter-jackson-and-lotrs-hobbit-movies/817733/28 "2018-07-13T14:19:01Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > High. +1 ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-a-terrifying-thought-about-peter-jackson-and-lotrs-hobbit-movies/817733/29 "2018-07-13T14:25:55Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I have it on DVD; I have no idea if it’s available on a streaming service, but I imagine that a hard copy is pretty easy to pick up. [Answer to my own question](https://www.amazon.com/Hobbit-1977-Animated-Classic/dp/B008ETVXQY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1531491863&sr=8-1&keywords=the+hobbit+rankin+bass+dvd): you can get the DVD for $10 or so on Amazon. Amazon also has it on Prime Video, for a $3.99 rental. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-a-terrifying-thought-about-peter-jackson-and-lotrs-hobbit-movies/817733/30 "2018-07-13T14:58:28Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Agreed. If you bear in mind that it was made primarily for children, and that it’s 1970s-level animation, I think that it’s pretty true to the book (and its tone). > > I have it on DVD; I have no idea if it’s available on a streaming service, but I imagine that a hard copy is pretty easy to pick up. It definitely cuts some things out. Beorn and most of the politics from Laketown and the Battle of the Five Armies being the big two. But Beorn isn’t really needed very much as he’s mainly just a rest-and-resupply stop for them as the group goes into Mirkwood, and all the politics has a lot of setup that doesn’t pay off much in the text. It’s not the prettiest to look at but it’s not bad animation, the voice acting is solid, and it hits all the points you’d really want in a short self-contained adaptation. It’s not so much that Jackson tried to pull in the stuff about the Necromancer. What Gandalf was doing when he wasn’t with the group is interesting. But that it’s over-stuffed, over-CGed, over-video game physicsed, and there is way too much pulled out of what is basically a footnoote or two in the book itself. I found myself both exhausted and disappointed with the first one and haven’t bothered to watch the other two. ---
**Author:** ![Textual\_Assault](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/34f0e0/32.png) [@Textual\_Assault](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Textual_Assault)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-a-terrifying-thought-about-peter-jackson-and-lotrs-hobbit-movies/817733/31 "2018-07-13T15:48:04Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > If The Hobbit merited 9 hours, then The Lord of the Rings merited about 50. > > I think any movie of Tolkien is essentially doomed to fail from the start, because they are all very wordy. Dialogue-heavy, narration-heavy… and those things IMO are the essence of what the books are about. The action is schematic: some guys go on a dangerous epic journey, they do some fateful and heroic deeds, and they come home or at least try to come home. To me, what they say on the way there and back IS the story, along with what the narrator adds, and the action is just a frame to hang it on. > > How about a word-for-word audio version with dozens of good voice actors? I’d go. Probably I’d be the only one. 😃 Seriously?:rolleyes: the dialogue from LotR’s is laughably point and guffaw levels of bad. every other page one character or another is crying “ALAS!!!” or “ALAS ALACKADAY!!!” The dialogue in the actual books has always sucked. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-a-terrifying-thought-about-peter-jackson-and-lotrs-hobbit-movies/817733/32 "2018-07-13T16:09:42Z")
I loved Jackson’s LOTR movies but was very, very disappointed in his Hobbit movies. Too much crap added; too many frantic action sequences that played out like videogames or were just stoopid (Thorin dancing along the edge of Smaug’s teeth - _really?_); Beorn didn’t get the screen time he deserved; Radagast was covered in bird poop and rode a sleigh pulled by freakin’ giant _bunnies_. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-a-terrifying-thought-about-peter-jackson-and-lotrs-hobbit-movies/817733/33 "2018-07-13T16:45:43Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I loved Jackson’s LOTR movies but was very, very disappointed in his Hobbit movies. Too much crap added; too many frantic action sequences that played out like videogames or were just stoopid (Thorin dancing along the edge of Smaug’s teeth - _really?_); Beorn didn’t get the screen time he deserved; Radagast was covered in bird poop and rode a sleigh pulled by freakin’ giant _bunnies_. Becuase giant bunnies ( Rhosgobel rabbits) pulling sleighs (size of dogs, which do) is less believable than giant eagles carrying people? > [@http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Rhosgobel\_Rabbits](#): > > According to the crew of Peter Jackson, the Rhosgobel rabbits are based on real-life[Flemish Giant rabbits](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flemish_Giant_rabbit). I’ll give you that some of the action sequences were absolutely too ‘video game like’. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-a-terrifying-thought-about-peter-jackson-and-lotrs-hobbit-movies/817733/34 "2018-07-13T17:04:31Z")
The thing is, parts of “The Hobbit” movies are fantastic. What it needs is a directors cut into two 3 hour movies, eliminating some of the crap parts. In the book, the Battle of Five Armies takes two pages, and it’s literally 2 hours of the last film. Yeah, show a battle. But that battle should take five minutes, and be all from Bilbo’s perspective. A bunch of dwarves and men and elves and goblins killing each other while he tries not to die, and then he gets bonked on the head, end scene. The thing I hate the most about Jackson’s Middle Earth adaptations is literalizing stuff. Oh, Galadriel seems different when she’s talking about how she’s gonna take the ring? Have you considered…acting? That can all be done with acting and changing the camera angle. You’ve got Cate Blanchet right there. The Hobbit would be best as a 6 or 8 part cable miniseries. Every episode is about one of the set pieces from the book. The book is deliberately set up this way. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-a-terrifying-thought-about-peter-jackson-and-lotrs-hobbit-movies/817733/35 "2018-07-13T17:40:43Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > You know… if Jackson didn’t actually want to make three movies, then why the hell did he make each one three hours long? Watch the Lindsay Ellis series of videos I linked to above. They will answer your question. Short answer-- the producers demanded it. I guess because that’s what LOTR related movies are. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-a-terrifying-thought-about-peter-jackson-and-lotrs-hobbit-movies/817733/36 "2018-07-13T17:53:55Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > The ideal nine-hour cinematic adaptation of _The Hobbit_ would have had Martin Freeman made up as Bilbo, sitting in his favorite chair in Bag End, _reading_ Tolkien’s novel to us. I would enjoy that movie as well - as previewed in [FotR](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ9mYtCAGf8) (about a minute and a half in) - But I don’t think it would do well in the theatres. > [@Lemur866](#): > > The thing is, parts of “The Hobbit” movies are fantastic. What it needs is a directors cut into two 3 hour movies, eliminating some of the crap parts. In the book, the Battle of Five Armies takes two pages, and it’s literally 2 hours of the last film. Yeah, show a battle. But that battle should take five minutes, and be all from Bilbo’s perspective. A bunch of dwarves and men and elves and goblins killing each other while he tries not to die, and then he gets bonked on the head, end scene. [Someone did this](https://tolkieneditor.wordpress.com/)- I actually have the download of it - and I always hoped that Jackson, etc would do just that a ‘good parts’ edition that trimmed it down. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-a-terrifying-thought-about-peter-jackson-and-lotrs-hobbit-movies/817733/37 "2018-07-13T19:34:11Z")
> [@Textual\_Assault](#): > > Seriously?:rolleyes: the dialogue from LotR’s is laughably point and guffaw levels of bad. every other page one character or another is crying “ALAS!!!” or “ALAS ALACKADAY!!!” The dialogue in the actual books has always sucked. Tolkien was a student of, and a professor specializing in, archaic languages. His influences in creating Middle-Earth, and its novels, included Old English, Norse, and Germanic mythology, sagas, and prose. He was clearly trying to craft prose reminiscent of those forms, and it was never going to feel in any way modern (nor was it meant to be). The books have dense prose, and dialogue that doesn’t feel “natural” to modern ears. For many of his fans, that’s part of their charm. ---
**Author:** ![bmoak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@bmoak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bmoak)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2018, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-a-terrifying-thought-about-peter-jackson-and-lotrs-hobbit-movies/817733/38 "2018-07-15T22:37:44Z")
As to the OP’s question: \*Jackson actually thought about making The Hobbit before LOTR, but got hung up on the rights (same thing that caused Del Toro to leave the project). - There is no way that a pre-LOTR Hobbit would have been three movies. When PJ was pitching LOTR to studios, he was pitching it as two movies because he thought studios would balk at committing to three movies. He was about to start working on a two-movie LOTR for Miramax, but the Weinsteins told him to trim it to one movie, so he walked. Luckily, New Line picked it up and was willing to do three movies. \*PJ was not keen to be involved in the Hobbit movies except as a producer. However, a long holdup over the rights to The Hobbit left Del Toro cooling his heels for almost two years and he had to leave to honor other commitments. PJ felt there wasn’t time to recruit another director, so he stepped in. - Del Toro had done a lot of prep work for the film, but PJ said he didn’t feel right just appropriating Del Toro’s work and ideas. Which meant that PJ had to start from scratch and had only a fraction of the time that he had for prepping LOTR. \*It didn’t help that, right before shooting was to start, he became ill and had to be hospitalized. \*If you watch the extra features and commentary tracks on the Extended Editions, you will see on-location footage where PJ is talking about the two movies they are working on. The decision to make it three movies was made AFTER shooting had started. No wonder the movies are a mess. \*On LOTR, PJ and WETA had a lot of time to work on things. They could afford to scrap things and go back to the drawing board if they felt there was something missing. Watching the extra features, you get the sense that the entire production was basically on jump ahead of the sheriff, so they had to go with what they had as far as script, props, sets, design, effects, and so on. It certainly explains why there was so much green-screen and CGI. \*That being said, PJ could certainly have benefited from someone who could say no to some of his ideas in The Hobbit. -He tends to overindulge in his love of low comedy, and physical humor. -He has a ridiculous need to “top” himself as far as stunts, bits of business, and drawn out action sequences and battle scenes, with every movie. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-a-terrifying-thought-about-peter-jackson-and-lotrs-hobbit-movies/817733/39 "2018-07-19T23:23:26Z")
> [@Textual\_Assault](#): > > I saw all the LotR’s movies in theater and saw the ultimate super exteded editions on DVD and I’ve seen more or less all of the Hobbit movies on tv. > > And seriously 3 3 hour long movies on the Hobbit? Jackson is like Tom Clancy, in desperate need of a strong editor who will say, "NO. > > But my thought was this, what if Jackson had done the 3 Hobbit movies first, he would have said to himself, "Shit if I can stretch out a kids book for 9 hours over three movies surely I can stretch out each of the LotR’s books for three movies at 3 hours apiece.:eek: > > The mind reels in terror. That reminds me, I never did watch my bluray of Hobbit 3: the Hobbiting. I don’t hate them or anything but yeah. Rankin Bass did a perfectly cromulant job with 90 minutes, and they did better songs too! Did we really need Legolas and Kate from Lost shoehorned into these? ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-a-terrifying-thought-about-peter-jackson-and-lotrs-hobbit-movies/817733/40 "2018-07-20T00:10:57Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > J > Check out the cut scene in the battle of five armies where the Dwarf and Elfs actually fight for a while before the Orc army appears. I’m not sure why Peter cut that out of the movie. Probably for the same reason in these super long movies full of stuff Tolkien never thought of, he still couldn’t bother to fit in Tom Bombidill. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-a-terrifying-thought-about-peter-jackson-and-lotrs-hobbit-movies/817733.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-a-terrifying-thought-about-peter-jackson-and-lotrs-hobbit-movies/817733.md?page=3)