# I had the right to kill this man in cold blood because I didn't like his performing legal acts **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2010, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883 "2010-01-29T14:19:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/41 "2010-01-29T17:04:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > As a matter of law, there is a crime in that state called voluntary manslaughter. That crime exists when someone has an objectively unreasonable but still honestly held belief that circumstances he was facing justified deadly force. Doesn’t that just mean the person is ‘crazy’? Also, if he felt the doctor was a threat, then why, after killing him, did he flee and try to hide the evidence of his crime? Can we call this the douche bag defense? Your honor, it isn’t murder one because I’m a total douche bag. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/42 "2010-01-29T17:07:36Z")
Funny that you say Roeder had no _mens rea_ for murder, yet you call Tiller “immoral,” when he obviously had no belief that he was doing anything wrong either. You’re aware that these were not elective abortions, are you not? ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/43 "2010-01-29T17:10:47Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > Doesn’t that just mean the person is ‘crazy’? Long before you get to crazy you pass through unreasonable. The world is full of examples. Take the 911 truthers for a moment. Are they crazy? (Crazy as in medically insane, not generally nutty.) I’d say no. But I’d also say that their beliefs are unreasonable. ETA: Oh, and **Don’t Call Me Shirley** , I’m awfully glad to have helped! ---
**Author:** ![EristicKallistic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/85e7bf/32.png) [@EristicKallistic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EristicKallistic)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/44 "2010-01-29T17:13:19Z")
Roeder was convicted of first-degree murder after about 40 minutes of deliberation. ---
**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/45 "2010-01-29T17:18:45Z")
Guilty - premeditated first-degree. [http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100129/ap\_on\_re\_us/us\_abortion\_shooting\_trial](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100129/ap_on_re_us/us_abortion_shooting_trial) Good. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/46 "2010-01-29T17:20:32Z")
> [@EristicKallistic](#): > > Roeder was convicted of first-degree murder after about 40 minutes of deliberation. As a pro-lifer, I say yay! ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/47 "2010-01-29T17:21:05Z")
> [@EristicKallistic](#): > > Roeder was convicted of first-degree murder after about 40 minutes of deliberation. Yup. CNN is reporting it. This is what I expected would happen. Glad to see the jury got it right. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/48 "2010-01-29T17:40:35Z")
> [@EristicKallistic](#): > > Roeder was convicted of first-degree murder after about 40 minutes of deliberation. Good. Will he get life in prison? ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/49 "2010-01-29T17:48:40Z")
How many years of appeals are we in for now? Not that I expect any of them to succeed based on my limited knowledge, just curious. eta: **gagundathar** From the linked article. > [@](#): > > He faces a mandatory sentence of life in prison with the possibility of parole after 25 years when he is sentenced March 9. Prosecutor Nola Foulston said she would pursue a so-called “Hard 50” sentence, which would require Roeder to serve at least 50 years before he can be considered for parole. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/50 "2010-01-29T17:52:04Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > Good. > Will he get life in prison? The article says it’s mandatory life with the possibility of parole after 25 years. Roeder is 51, so he will be 76 before he can even start getting turned down by parole boards. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/51 "2010-01-29T17:53:26Z")
Let’s hope he gets the hard 50, but he’ll most likely die in prison either way. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/52 "2010-01-29T17:56:19Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > How many years of appeals are we in for now? > > Not that I expect any of them to succeed based on my limited knowledge, just curious. > > eta: **gagundathar** > > From the linked article. Since he doesn’t face a death penalty, the appeal options are fewer, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/53 "2010-01-29T18:01:50Z")
He’ll still be in prison while the appeals are going on, so it doesn’t really matter. They won’t amount to much more than a page 20 paragraph that this or that appeal was rejected in a couple of years, and that will be that. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/54 "2010-01-29T18:11:29Z")
I assumed Kansas had the death penalty. Glad to see I was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/55 "2010-01-29T18:14:45Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > Doesn’t that just mean the person is ‘crazy’? No. At least, not in the legal sense, the crazy-in-a-way-that-negates-criminal-liability sense. > [@](#): > > Also, if he felt the doctor was a threat, then why, after killing him, did he flee and try to hide the evidence of his crime? If he had been allowed to present that defense, I am sure the jury would have been allowed to consider that question. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/56 "2010-01-29T18:19:06Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Yup. CNN is reporting it. This is what I expected would happen. Glad to see the jury got it right. I agree the jury got it right. And I agree this is a just verdict. What not quite as sanguine as **Hamlet** that we’ve heard the last on that jury instruction, though. It’s very surprising to me that Roeder’s lawyer let him get on the stand and testify that did all that stuff without being sure he’d get in some little trinket of evidence they could hang imminent threat on and thereby demand their jury instruction. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/57 "2010-01-29T18:21:50Z")
I suspect Roeder and his lawyer knew his goose was cooked and figured they could squeeze out a last minute public service announcement for the cause. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/58 "2010-01-29T18:23:07Z")
Slight hijack. He stated that he wrapped up the gun and buried it. Can I find it and auction it as a souvenir? It was discarded and is technically trash. And no longer required as evidence in the trial. Yes, I know it would be a rather sick collectible, but people have spent money on stranger things. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/59 "2010-01-29T18:33:50Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I suspect Roeder and his lawyer knew his goose was cooked and figured they could squeeze out a last minute public service announcement for the cause. I thought I saw that it was a public defender. I sincerely doubt a public defender is some sort of crusader for the pro-life movement. He’s just doing his job. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/60 "2010-01-29T18:34:28Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I suspect Roeder and his lawyer knew his goose was cooked and figured they could squeeze out a last minute public service announcement for the cause. Possibly intentional, but that would mean intentionally making it harder to introduce argumentation along the lines of Human Being! Human Being! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883.md?page=4)