# I had the right to kill this man in cold blood because I didn't like his performing legal acts **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2010, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883 "2010-01-29T14:19:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/81 "2010-01-29T21:36:11Z")
> [@irishgirl](#): > > It is nice to see justice prevail. In a way, his murderer and his sympathizers have already prevailed. There is now less access to abortion for women in that region, and potential providers have been intimidated from entering that business. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/82 "2010-01-29T21:38:47Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > In a way, his murderer and his sympathizers have already prevailed. There is now less access to abortion for women in that region, and potential providers have been intimidated from entering that business. Which is, after all, the real goal of any terrorist. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/83 "2010-01-29T21:51:34Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > From a legal perspective, Dr. Tiller had not done anything wrong. And from a moral perspective, he was a fucking hero. ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/84 "2010-01-29T22:27:48Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > In a way, his murderer and his sympathizers have already prevailed. There is now less access to abortion for women in that region, and potential providers have been intimidated from entering that business. Really? I need a cite for that, because I can tell you with certainty that your statement is completely without basis in fact. I suppose there could have been a few people who were dissuaded from getting into the business, but it’s not as if it’s even slightly more inconvenient to get an abortion in Wichita nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![otternell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecc23a/32.png) [@otternell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/otternell)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/85 "2010-01-29T22:28:50Z")
Yes but he was one of 3 in the nation for late term abortion. ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/86 "2010-01-29T22:32:13Z")
Even if you say only late-term, then you can check out [http://www.abortion.com/abortion\_clinics\_state.php?country=United%20States&state=Kansas](http://www.abortion.com/abortion_clinics_state.php?country=United%20States&state=Kansas). Driving to Topeka is about 2.5-3 hours from Wichita. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/87 "2010-01-29T22:40:17Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > Really? I need a cite for that, because I can tell you with certainty that your statement is completely without basis in fact. > > I suppose there could have been a few people who were dissuaded from getting into the business, but it’s not as if it’s even slightly more inconvenient to get an abortion in Wichita nowadays. So, it’s without basis except that it’s true, and it’s not even slightly more inconvenient except that it’s now a 3 hour drive, oh and late-term means leaving the state. Well I’m sure convinced by you! ---
**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/88 "2010-01-29T22:57:39Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > Even if you say only late-term, then you can check out [http://www.abortion.com/abortion\_clinics\_state.php?country=United%20States&state=Kansas](http://www.abortion.com/abortion_clinics_state.php?country=United%20States&state=Kansas). > > Driving to Topeka is about 2.5-3 hours from Wichita. Add in another hour for getting to Overland Park, which is where the list from your link goes. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/89 "2010-01-29T23:01:15Z")
> [@Katriona](#): > > Add in another hour for getting to Overland Park, which is where the list from your link goes. Overland Park is listed as the only abortion clinic in Kansas. There is no listed late-term abortion clinic in Kansas. ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/90 "2010-01-29T23:03:13Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > So, it’s without basis except that it’s true, and it’s not even slightly more inconvenient except that it’s now a 3 hour drive, oh and late-term means leaving the state. > > Well I’m sure convinced by you! :rolleyes: Classic. So there are in fact _more_ late term providers than there were before the murder. This directly contradicts **Elvis** ’s point. And late term or not, there are abortion options in [Wichita](http://maps.google.com/maps?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=s&hl=en&source=hp&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=abortion+wichita&fb=1&gl=us&hq=abortion&hnear=wichita&view=text&ei=52hjS4iuMJL-M_-X_fMG&sa=X&oi=local_group&ct=more-results&resnum=2&ved=0CCYQtQMwAQ). So let’s see a cite, buckwheat. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/91 "2010-01-29T23:03:51Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > it’s not as if it’s even slightly more inconvenient to get an abortion in Wichita nowadays. Do you not understand what “convenient” means? Y’all have one abortion clinic in all of Kansas, and you think that’s not inconvenient? I live in Massachusetts, you can get 'em at the 7/11 here, and that’s still not convenient enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![Man\_from\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Man\_from\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Man_from_Mars)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/92 "2010-01-29T23:07:16Z")
I read a quote where this murderer claimed that abortion should be illegal in _all_ circumstances, including cases of rape or incest because “two wrongs don’t make a right.” Murdering someone though, to save the precious, precious children (even the ones who would be born without brains and live for only three days anyway) does not apply to the “two wrongs” principle. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/93 "2010-01-29T23:08:20Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > :rolleyes: Classic. > > So there are in fact _more_ late term providers than there were before the murder. This directly contradicts **Elvis** ’s point. > > And late term or not, there are abortion options in [Wichita](http://maps.google.com/maps?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=s&hl=en&source=hp&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=abortion+wichita&fb=1&gl=us&hq=abortion&hnear=wichita&view=text&ei=52hjS4iuMJL-M_-X_fMG&sa=X&oi=local_group&ct=more-results&resnum=2&ved=0CCYQtQMwAQ). > > So let’s see a cite, buckwheat. You link to a search that gives things like “George Tiller, MD” and “Abortion Alternatives Organizations” and you think that gives “abortion options” in Wichita. Are you for real? You do know that George Tiller is a fucking _corpse_? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/94 "2010-01-29T23:09:14Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > Really? I need a cite for that, because I can tell you with certainty that your statement is completely without basis in fact. > > I suppose there could have been a few people who were dissuaded from getting into the business, but it’s not as if it’s even slightly more inconvenient to get an abortion in Wichita nowadays. > [@ivn1188](#): > > Even if you say only late-term, then you can check out [http://www.abortion.com/abortion\_clinics\_state.php?country=United%20States&state=Kansas](http://www.abortion.com/abortion_clinics_state.php?country=United%20States&state=Kansas). > > Driving to Topeka is about 2.5-3 hours from Wichita. Wow, how full of shit are you, exactly? According to the [Los Angeles Times](http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jun/10/nation/na-tiller10?pg=2)Tiller’s clinic was the only pace in Wichita to get an abortion. The story also notes there are no abortion clinics at all between Kansas City and Denver, CO. Also, according to the story, there are only two doctors left in America willing to perform medically-indicated late term abourtions. Even following your own link to late term abortion clinics, the closest one listed is in Arkansas. And that clinic’s web site doesn’t list late term abortions among its services, so there’s a pretty good chance it’s not offered there either. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/95 "2010-01-29T23:25:53Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Thanks so much Annie! The .001% of pro lifers who think that bombing clinics and killing people is OK will surely be changed by your heartfelt message. Meanwhile the 99.999% of pro lifers who thoroughly reject bombing clinics and killing people will just smile at yet another attempt to paint them as terrorists. Well done! Well said. Still that mofo helped those who think 0.001% is 80%. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I see that we’re in complete agreement about abortion. I want to subscribe to your newsletter. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/96 "2010-01-29T23:29:33Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > :rolleyes: Classic. > > So there are in fact _more_ late term providers than there were before the murder. This directly contradicts **Elvis** ’s point. > > And late term or not, there are abortion options in [Wichita](http://maps.google.com/maps?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=s&hl=en&source=hp&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=abortion+wichita&fb=1&gl=us&hq=abortion&hnear=wichita&view=text&ei=52hjS4iuMJL-M_-X_fMG&sa=X&oi=local_group&ct=more-results&resnum=2&ved=0CCYQtQMwAQ). > > So let’s see a cite, buckwheat. I looked up every single organization listed by your own Google search, and except for the one operated by Dr Tiller, every single one was an “abortion alternatives” organization. Not a single one offers abortions to anyone, at ny point in their pregnancy, for any reason. What was it you said about a claim that there is less access to abortion now than before? Oh, yeah: > [@](#): > > I suppose there could have been a few people who were dissuaded from getting into the business, but it’s not as if it’s even slightly more inconvenient to get an abortion in Wichita nowadays. Care to retract this stupidity? ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/97 "2010-01-29T23:43:21Z")
Alright, I’ll give you that it is now more inconvenient, as you apparently have to drive to Overland Park. Very well, I will retract that statement. On the other hand, there are more than 3 late term clinics in the nation. Until you provide a cite that shows the list I linked to is incorrect, I stand by my statement that there are more late term providers now than there were. Also, Planned Parenthood is in Wichita, is on that map, and while they do not perform abortions, they will do referrals. I would not consider them an “alternatives” organization. Finally, I know a few people who have had abortions performed for “medical necessity” reasons at Via Christi. Anecdotal, obviously, but I don’t think the doctors needed life or death sort of reasons. ---
**Author:** ![i\_am\_a\_scientist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f07891/32.png) [@i\_am\_a\_scientist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/i_am_a_scientist)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2010, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/98 "2010-01-30T00:15:37Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > Alright, I’ll give you that it is now more inconvenient, as you apparently have to drive to Overland Park. Very well, I will retract that statement. They don’t provide late term abortions, [closest one would be in Arkansas](http://www.abortion.com/abortion_clinics_late_term.php). ---
**Author:** ![Silverstreak\_Wonder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silverstreak_Wonder)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2010, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/99 "2010-01-30T00:26:11Z")
Wow, nothing is out west on that list, how did those states stop it? I expected more of it out west. Glad to see there are so few left, how did they do it? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2010, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883/100 "2010-01-30T01:10:08Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > Alright, I’ll give you that it is now more inconvenient, as you apparently have to drive to Overland Park. Very well, I will retract that statement. > > On the other hand, there are more than 3 late term clinics in the nation. Until you provide a cite that shows the list I linked to is incorrect, I stand by my statement that there are more late term providers now than there were. … Don’t really need to go much further than your own cite. Not one of them performs late-term abortions as defined by a JAMA article-- at 27 weeks or later. That number is a bit up in the air, as it supposed to represent the stage at which a fetus is viable outside the womb. It seems to vary between 20 and 26 weeks, but acording to [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late-term_abortion), > [@](#): > > Nearly all pregnancies are viable after the 27th week, and no pregnancies are viable before the 21st week. Everything in between is a “grey area”.[6] If you care to click on the links and look, no matter what number of weeks are specified, in every case the clinic talks about 1st and 2nd trimester abortions. They define the trimesters slightly differently, and restrict their abortion services to the end of the second trimester. All Women’s Center of Jacksonville - abortions through 24 weeks A Westside Womens Medical Pavilion, P.C. - abortions through 24 weeks Philadelphia Women’s Center - through 22 weeks All Women’s Health Center of North Tampa - abortions through 24 weeks All Women’s Health Center - - abortions through 24 weeks All Women’s Medical Pavilion - abortions through 24 weeks Washington Surgi Clinic - abortions through 26 weeks All Women’s Health Center of Gainesville - abortions through 24 weeks All Women’s Health Center of Orlando - abortions through 24 weeks Little Rock Family Planning Services - abortions through 21 weeks All Women’s Health Center of St Petersburg - abortions through 24 weeks Abortion Advantage - abortions through 24 weeks Hartford GYN Center - abortions through 20 weeks Choice Medical Group - abortions through 24 weeks All Women’s Health Center of Tampa - abortions through 24 weeks Atlanta Women’s Medical Center - abortions through 24 weeks Family Planning Associates - abortions through 24 weeks Women’s OB/GYN Center - abortions through 24 weeks Lakeland Women’s Health Center - abortions through 24 weeks Cherry Hill Women’s Center - abortions through 24 weeks I was only able to find two clinics in the US that specify performing 3rd trimester abortions, and neither is on that list. They are: Grace Medical Care, near Philadelphia Boulder Abortion Clinic in Boulder CO [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-the-right-to-kill-this-man-in-cold-blood-because-i-didnt-like-his-performing-legal-acts/526883.md?page=6)