# I hate "African American"! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 8, 2000, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-african-american/17955 "2000-04-08T23:47:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2000, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-african-american/17955/41 "2000-04-11T14:09:00Z")
Well, I’m sorry to see that you can’t follow a simple discussion. Perhaps if you paid better attention… > [@](#): > > First, you acknowledge that many people do use the “n-word” or a close variant in a non-hostile, even friendly way, and you courageously admit that you have no idea why. That is correct. I could probably guess, but that’s all it would be. In any event, the word was never originally intended to be anything but an insult, a put-down, a showing that somebody is not even a person. While a few people use it differently, I would say those few are the exception, not the rule. > [@](#): > > Then you repeat your blanket statement that the “n-word” is an unacceptable degradation of black people in any and all cases regardless of context (and context is the key issue, whether 50 years ago or today). Once again, you show that you are not paying attention. I didn’t say that. Jeez, can’t you even read a message before responding to it? > [@](#): > > And regarding whatever book it was that you mentioned, it makes little difference whether it was a single redneck or a community of rednecks: you’re still using a small and possibly biased sample to draw a general conclusion. Logical fallacy, son. No, I used a sample from the times – court records, newspapers, etc. Hell, even the fedderal investigators prosecuting the case referred to them that way! You can’t even pay attention long enough to know what book I’m talking about, don’t pay attention to how it was described, claim it was “one person” and then try to cover your ass when I point out that, well, you weren’t paying attention. It isn’t working, son. Instead of playing CYA, why not just try to figure out what’s been said _before_ responding? What a novel idea! ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2000, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-african-american/17955/42 "2000-04-11T14:43:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by **Doghouse Reilly** : > > First, [**David B**] acknowledge[s] that many people do use the “n-word” or a close variant in a non-hostile, even friendly way, _and_ [he] courageously admit[s] that [he has] no idea why. Then [he] repeat[s] [his] blanket statement that the “n-word” is an unacceptable degradation of black people in any and all cases regardless of context (and context is the key issue, whether 50 years ago or today). If I may jump in… I think we can agree that “faggot” has the same derogatory effect on gay men that “nigger” has on black folk. However, black folk _do_ call each other “nigger” amongst themselves and their friends; similarly, there have been times where I and my friends have called each other “faggot.” Now, my experience has been that the “friendly, amongst-ourselves” version of “nigger” is used more frequently as a term of brotherhood than “faggot” is, but both are nonetheless used. If I know you and you call me “faggot” and I know the context is friendly and/or joking around, no harm done (I’ll probably call you “faggot” or “fuckin’ breeder” back). If a car full of kids drives by me on the street and one of them yells, “Faggot!” out the window, I don’t think I’m going to assume they meant it to kid around. Context (or intent) _is_ key. To be trite, both words have been reclaimed from the oppressors by the oppressed to be a word of pride and encouragement and brotherhood, thereby deflating its intended derogatory meaning. Esprix * * * [Ask the Gay Guy!](http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001376.html) (or, if you prefer the Jesusfied version, [Asketh the damn Priest Guy!](http://www.askjesus.org/ask.cgi?http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001376.html)) ---
**Author:** ![douglips](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@douglips](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/douglips)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2000, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-african-american/17955/43 "2000-04-11T18:28:00Z")
Regarding ‘niggahs’ in conversation between black people - I just saw Maya Angelou speak in SF a month ago, and she had this to say about the topic, near as I can remember it. > [@](#): > > I see young black people kidding around today and calling each other niggah. They say “We can call each other that, it doesn’t mean the same thing.” > > Well, I know when I see a bottle of poison, you know, the ominous black glass bottle, with the label that says P-O-I-S-O-N, poison, and the skull and bones and the warning labels not to drink it that it’s poison. > > Now, if I take that bottle and pour a little bit of poison into the finest crystal wine glass, **it’s still poison.** She’s a much more powerful speaker than I can convey here, but I hope the point comes across. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2000, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-african-american/17955/44 "2000-04-12T01:03:00Z")
Well, Dave, speaking of paying attention, let’s just look at what the other posters are saying in this forum. Now remember, the point that we’re debating is whether certain terms like “n\_gger” must be banned and shunned forever and ever until kingdom come. “Off-limits” in SterlingNorth’s phrase. I submit that “n\_gger” is a real live term that often does have non-hostile applications, and members of the group you’re ostensibly protecting might not agree with your efforts to curtail words and ideas. First, I’m not at all convinced that you’re correct to state that “the word was never originally intended to be anything but an insult, a put-down, a showing that somebody is not even a person”. I’m not an etymologist, so this assertion is far from self-evident to me. Where’s your support for it? I rather tend to believe that you’re one of the “cognitive lumpenproletariat” identified by Boris B: > [@](#): > > The problem is, the cognitive lumpenproletariat think words have hymens. That’s right, words start out as virgins, then they get fucked and you can never use them again . . . If it was ever used wrong, it is an obsolete term forever. OK, maybe the whole of American society at one point in time generally used “n\_gger” as a perjorative, just as the whole of German society once used the term _Jude_ in the same way. But that speaks nothing of the word’s origins or of its use today. I’m not sure I would agree entirely with Esprix’s analysis that, like “faggot”, “n\_gger” has been “reclaimed from the oppressors by the oppressed to be a word of pride and encouragement and brotherhood” but it’s clear that in _some_ way, some black people and even some white people have come to adopt a usage of the word that doesn’t have the _inherent_ hostility and oppression that you imply. I would respectfully disagree with douglips and Maya Angelou, in that I believe that words don’t carry some magical “poisonous” effect totally separate from the context in which they’re used. Words are vehicles of communication, the communication of ideas. If the hostile idea isn’t there, the hostile semantics of a word aren’t there either. DHR ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2000, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-african-american/17955/45 "2000-04-12T01:27:00Z")
I agree with Doghouse and disagree with Ms Angelou. Gay used to be an insult, and it still is (“You’re so gay!”) but it certainly can be used (usually is) in a non-insulting fashion. Similarly, “homosexual” used to be a fairly neutral term, but its air has gotten slightly more chilly as we’ve moved along (probably due to the sort of quack psychiatrists and cable-TV preachers who pronounce it “homasekshal”). ---
**Author:** ![Sentinel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Sentinel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sentinel)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2000, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-african-american/17955/46 "2000-04-12T03:12:00Z")
**Porch Monkey** I hate to break into this conversation concerning Blacks, but where I’m from, porch monkey was **not** used as a racial slur and was mainly applied to young, White children. It was in relation to the old Southern style of having big porches, where young children played, being too young to go into the yard alone or simply preferring the cooling shade. **SATAN** I read the episode concerning your grandmother with interest. I found it somewhat interesting also that you seemed to agree with the lambasting of an obviously elderly lady over an unintentional racial slur. In my time I have been insulted by Black elderly people in several people oriented jobs, but never have I found it necessary to respond in anger, considering A: their advanced age, B: their upbringing and C: what they must have gone through in their younger years. In your tale, I found the attitude of the Black clerk reprehensible. I can imagine the poor old lady, seeking out her favorite treat, requesting them by the only name she recalled and being loudly insulted by the clerk and, embarrassed, feelings hurt, having to leave without her candy and probably not real sure just why she had been chastised. Exceptions should always be made for the elderly of any race. * * * **Some mornings, it’s just not worth chewing through the leather straps.** ---
**Author:** ![VeraGemini](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/e9bcb4/32.png) [@VeraGemini](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VeraGemini)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2000, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-african-american/17955/47 "2000-04-12T06:07:00Z")
> [@](#): > > MATT: the term is “amerind”. \ I’m of Cherokee descent. I dislike the term “Amerind”, it sounds very artificial to me. I detest “Aboriginal” and “First People” for the same reason, they’re contrived, and strike me as a little condescending, even. “Native American” is ok, but it’s not very precise… what about everyone else born in the US? They’re not “native”? (And it seems to exclude Canadians and Mexicans who are of similar descent) “Indian” or “American Indian” are also imprecise, coming from a geographical error, but they don’t sound so contrived to me, maybe because they’re older terms. Best of all would be to refer to people by their specific tribes, but it’s impossible to know that without asking, so… call me Indian, if you have to call me something. Just don’t call me late for dinner 🙂 \ ---
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2000, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-african-american/17955/48 "2000-04-12T14:35:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Sentinel: > > \*\ ***Porch Monkey** > > I hate to break into this conversation concerning Blacks, but where I’m from, porch monkey was **not** used as a racial slur and was mainly applied to young, White children. \*\* The same logic that the geezer mentioned arlier seems to employ. The fact is, my ex-wife said the same thing once. I told her what it meant to a lot of people. She was somewhat shocked, but she never used the term in front of me again. > [@](#): > > \*\*I read the episode concerning your grandmother with interest. I found it somewhat interesting also that you seemed to agree with the lambasting of an obviously elderly lady over an unintentional racial slur. \*\* Where in what I said did you get the idea that I thought it was keen that she went through this? I said exactly that “I felt bad that she had to lean this in such a manner,” so don’t put words in my fucking mouth. The point I made was exactly that 1) elderly people have different vocabularies and different usages of the same words which may be innocent but that 2) when these are pointed out to them, whether politely or the way it was to my grandmother, they should get the point. My grandma did. This Bush appointee does not. _**I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR: Three days, 12 hours, 35 minutes and 29 seconds. 140 cigarettes not smoked, saving $17.62. Life saved: 11 hours, 40 minutes.**_ * * * Yer pal, Satan ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2000, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-african-american/17955/49 "2000-04-12T14:49:00Z")
Cecil’s column: [What percentage of black parentage do you need to be considered black?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_049.html) * * * Wrong thinking is punished, right thinking is just as swiftly rewarded. You’ll find it an effective combination. ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2000, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-african-american/17955/50 "2000-04-12T14:54:00Z")
My sister and brother-in-law work as missionaries in Congo (nee Zaire). IIRC, at least one of their sons was born over there. Does that make them “American-Africans”? * * * Wrong thinking is punished, right thinking is just as swiftly rewarded. You’ll find it an effective combination. ---
**Author:** ![SkySlash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@SkySlash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkySlash)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2000, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-african-american/17955/51 "2000-04-12T19:43:00Z")
Maybe I’m too young, but I have no clue what the derogatory form of “Porch Monkey” is?!? Until this thread I’d never heard that term! -SS * * * If “knowledge is power,” why does stupidity reign? ---
**Author:** ![BRIAN\_BROVOLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@BRIAN\_BROVOLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BRIAN_BROVOLD)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2000, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-african-american/17955/52 "2000-04-14T14:49:00Z")
i THINK PORCH MONKEY IS DEFINITELY DEROGATORY. My 89 yr old grandmother refers to black people like this. “that nice colored girl came to visit me today.” The point I am making is simple different generations call people different things. And my granny is as far from a racist as you get. When I was in the army my black friends used to call me honkey or cone (cone for the kkk hats) in jest. it never bothered me. I understand that racism is alive and has many faces and names but it seems to me that most black people who I know or meet seem to embrace my friendship and cultural differnces. Everone has predjudices but the key is to keep an open mind with everyone. My generation x or whatevr the hell we are called these days-seems to get that race is not so much the issue but understanding differnces between the two. and while we are at it in the U.S. I feel I had to work just as hard in life I feel as anyone else regardless of race. drugs,gangs and violence were avaliable to me just as much as anyone else. the point I am making is if you want to do well in life it’s your personal responsibility. Black,white or other if your not having a great life don’t blame “the man” blame yourself. I’m sorry if I got off track of the subject. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-african-american/17955.md?page=2)