# I Hate Being a Democrat **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 18, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-being-a-democrat/704968 "2014-11-18T16:48:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-being-a-democrat/704968/21 "2014-11-18T22:27:39Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > There’s a sense of cynicism and fatality along with a tendency to check out the moment things get hard that I just don’t get. > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > However, there’s no arguing that the youth’s 13% turnout in 2014 is just piss poor and shameful. Are you kidding me? You just don’t get why people won’t turn out for elections to vote for people that hate them? Who do you want them to vote for, the people that won’t help them get jobs or the people that won’t help them get jobs? The people that wants to take away their Pell grants or the party that wants them to subsidize old people? Neither party can even get its act together to allow discharge of student loans in bankruptcy, but you want them to be all rah-rah-rah for the idea of mandatory insurance they don’t need? I think you both need to rethink what’s really “piss poor and shameful.” > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > this unpopularity of Obama is at least partially due to the insufficient advocacy and defense of many of Obama’s policies, particularly the ACA…the increasingly good statistical news about the ACA And here we see the problem with liberals, and why you _should_ hate being a Democrat. You see “such and such millions of people now have health insurance” as “increasingly good news.” You don’t seem to want to mention the cost or the canceled policies or the poorly thought-out policies like mandatory birth control. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Liberals/Democrats and their ideals are great and would be widely supported if only they stood up and proudly proclaimed these values. The notion that there could be other people who genuinely disagree with these values is not a factor in this type of thinking. Stated perfectly. The OP seems to miss the fact that people don’t like Obama or his policies. He can’t wrap his head around that, so he surmises it’s just untrue. So goes the self-delusion of the party faithful. > [@dataguy](#): > > I’m really trying to understand what it is that people who claim to dislike/hate Obamacare are so displeased with. … Can anyone here provide a few concrete examples of objectionable features? I’m not trying to argue for or against it, I just would like to see some concrete objections. Sure. Subsidies for people other than me, an upper income, young person. Expensive subsidies. It’s a net loss to my government, and therefore my household. It forces people to have health insurance, which basically makes people like me pay for poor people and old people. It’s easy to get behind if you’re a Doper, i.e. ancient. I’m not a fan of giving old people money. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-being-a-democrat/704968/22 "2014-11-18T22:31:53Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Here’s a hint for you: most of what I wrote is not a characterization of your argument. It’s a characterization of a premise that logically underlies your argument, which you are free to disagree with but have no “rights” to. Obviously I’m disputing the stuff you wrote about iiandyiiii. > [@](#): > > The part I wrote which amounts to a characterization of your argument consists of the following: “_iiandyiiii is convinced that more people woiuld appreciate the “good news” from the ACA if they only had more publicity about it_”. That’s it. This is a paraphrase of what you said in post #5, where you wrote: “_I believe that had, since the ACA was implemented, every Democratic official consistently mentioned the increasingly good statistical news about the ACA, Obama’s popularity would be higher, the ACA’s popularity would be higher, and the Democrats would have done better in the recent election_”. > > If you think there is some difference between these two statements in the context of this discussion, by all means fill me in. Now you’re mischaracterizing your own post about me. You said: > [@](#): > > In the case of ACA, iiandyiiii is convinced that more people woiuld appreciate the “good news” from the ACA if they only had more publicity about it, but that’s inevitably colored by **his own view that the ACA is great** and **all this news has been good** , and the negative aspects are minor and so on. To the extent that other people believe that the negative aspects are big deals and the news is not all that good, then publicity would be counterproductive, but **that’s not how people like iiandyiiii look at things**. **The ACA is great and anyone who thinks otherwise is probably misinformed** , and the rest follows. All of the bolded stuff you posted about me is false. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-being-a-democrat/704968/23 "2014-11-18T22:34:33Z")
Maybe a bit exagerated, if you want to nitpick it. But basically true, and the point is unaffected if you tone it down. Replace “great” with “good” and “all” with “most”. Same basic point. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-being-a-democrat/704968/24 "2014-11-18T22:36:20Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > The OP seems to miss the fact that people don’t like Obama or his policies. He can’t wrap his head around that, so he surmises it’s just untrue. So goes the self-delusion of the party faithful. Correct, I don’t believe it. People who didn’t like him to begin with, sure, they still don’t. Elections turn on a swing of about 10% of people in the “middle” and voter turnout. Those 10% would be, I believe, more likely to stay with the Democrats if their candidates were enthusiastic about their defense for the President and all he accomplished. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-being-a-democrat/704968/25 "2014-11-18T22:42:39Z")
Do you understand that most people do not like the President are are unhappy with “all he accomplished”? This is indisputable fact, but I’m asking if you believe it. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-being-a-democrat/704968/26 "2014-11-18T22:52:39Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Do you understand that most people do not like the President are are unhappy with “all he accomplished”? This is indisputable fact, but I’m asking if you believe it. No. I don’t. What is indisputable is that a majority of people answer polls in a way to indicate displeasure. There are many reasons people have for answering polls the way they do. I sincerely doubt most people who once voted for Obama now have any serious beef with him. He’s done, or tried to do, what he said he would do. I’m a bit disappointed with him at times myself, but it doesn’t make me overall “unhappy” with him. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-being-a-democrat/704968/27 "2014-11-18T23:23:31Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Maybe a bit exagerated, if you want to nitpick it. But basically true, and the point is unaffected if you tone it down. Replace “great” with “good” and “all” with “most”. Same basic point. Not exactly, but not worth arguing about. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-being-a-democrat/704968/28 "2014-11-18T23:25:23Z")
Democrats should have stuck by Obama, unless like Manchin, they had a credible history as an independent. Unfortunately, none of the incumbents actually running did have that independent record, so they had the choice of either standing by an unpopular President or trying to muddy the waters about what they really believed while trying to portray the Republican candidate as extreme. The strategy actually worked quite well in 2012. It did not work in 2014. The difference is that a) the Republicans didn’t run anyone who didn’t know what they were doing, and b) the difference between 41% approval and 49% approval is vast when you’re running a close race. But let’s not forget, the Democrats were put in that position by the President. If he was popular, they would have proudly run on his record. He would have been overwhelmed with requests from candidates to join them on the campaign trail. So sure, they picked a bad strategy, but that’s choice between two bad strategies was forced on them by an unpopular President. And they are to blame too, for not demanding oversight of this administration. Which is also a wussy strategy. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-being-a-democrat/704968/29 "2014-11-18T23:28:22Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > No. I don’t. > > What is indisputable is that a majority of people answer polls in a way to indicate displeasure. There are many reasons people have for answering polls the way they do. I sincerely doubt most people who once voted for Obama now have any serious beef with him. He’s done, or tried to do, what he said he would do. I’m a bit disappointed with him at times myself, but it doesn’t make me overall “unhappy” with him. Obama won an average of 52% of the vote in his two elections. Currently his approval is about 42%, so that would mean that around 80% of those who originally voted for him still like him. But in a 50-50 country like we live in, losing 20% of your supporters is fatal to your party’s prospects. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-being-a-democrat/704968/30 "2014-11-18T23:31:42Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I agree that both parties do things like this, but I think the more important point is that this unpopularity of Obama is at least partially due to the insufficient advocacy and defense of many of Obama’s policies, particularly the ACA, by Democratic officials across the country. Hopefully this means you’ll stop considering Barack Obama to be a good communicator. Did Reagan or Clinton ever fail to defend their policies? Heck, did GWB ever fail to aggressively defend his policies? There’s just no effective messaging going on. Obama does defend his policies, in a very defensive manner that pretty much concedes that he’s got something to be defensive about. And since no one else in the party has his back… ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-being-a-democrat/704968/31 "2014-11-18T23:33:14Z")
> [@Dob](#): > > So when you stand in front of me and ask for my vote don’t pretend to be anything other than what you are, a Democrat. See, the thing is, they are not asking you for your vote. They know they got your vote - who else you gonna vote for? They are pretending for some other guy - non-Democrat. > [@](#): > > You want to win a mid-term? Wondering why Democratic voter turn out is low? Try supporting and voicing the support for the things I care about and the President who supports them. Stand up, say, “Yes, I voted for ACA. It needed to be done, it was the right thing to do, I did it”. You might still lose but at least I would come out and vote for you. Here is another thing - if the choice is winning or having you come out and vote, they will pick winning, every time. Why are you surprised? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-being-a-democrat/704968/32 "2014-11-18T23:36:42Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Hopefully this means you’ll stop considering Barack Obama to be a good communicator. He hasn’t been for the last year or two. He was a very good communicator during the elections, and at times during his presidency. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-being-a-democrat/704968/33 "2014-11-18T23:41:30Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Are you kidding me? You just don’t get why people won’t turn out for elections to vote for people that hate them? Who do you want them to vote for, the people that won’t help them get jobs or the people that won’t help them get jobs? The people that wants to take away their Pell grants or the party that wants them to subsidize old people? > > Neither party can even get its act together to allow discharge of student loans in bankruptcy, but you want them to be all rah-rah-rah for the idea of mandatory insurance they don’t need? I would only point out that no one needs insurance. Until they do. No person who ever got leukemia thought they needed insurance. No person who ever suffered a bad fall and shattered bones in ways they couldn’t imagine thought they needed insurance, either. As far as “subsidizing old people” goes, I think you have Obamacare confused with Medicare. Which is… single payer health insurance for old people. You’ve been paying for that for years. > [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > And here we see the problem with liberals, and why you _should_ hate being a Democrat. You see “such and such millions of people now have health insurance” as “increasingly good news.” You don’t seem to want to mention the cost or the canceled policies or the poorly thought-out policies like mandatory birth control. Please show me the group health plan you belonged to that EVER allowed you to opt out of policies like mandatory birth control. Or vasectomies. Or pregnancy. Hint: They don’t exist and they never have. Obamacare did not create this “poorly thought-out policy.” > [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Sure. Subsidies for people other than me, an upper income, young person. Expensive subsidies. It’s a net loss to my government, and therefore my household. It forces people to have health insurance, which basically makes people like me pay for poor people and old people. It’s easy to get behind if you’re a Doper, i.e. ancient. I’m not a fan of giving old people money. You’re deluding yourself if you think you haven’t been paying for the uninsured all along. The costs have simply been passed along to you in ways better hidden from your view. One of the ideas behind Obamacare is that encouraging people to get preventive care will save money in the long run; e.g., finding a melanoma in its earliest stages is far cheaper than treating someone with Stage 4 melanoma. (By the way, the last person I knew who died of melanoma was 27.) So maybe you are misinformed a little bit. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-being-a-democrat/704968/34 "2014-11-18T23:42:08Z")
“at times” and during campaigns can be applied to nearly any President. What seperates the good communicators from the not so good is being able to mobilize public support for their policies. He doesn’t seem to have any inkling of how to go about doing that. It’s not a lack of volume of communication, the guy’s been talking and talking and talking at us for six years. ---
**Author:** ![DingoelGringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@DingoelGringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DingoelGringo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-being-a-democrat/704968/35 "2014-11-18T23:51:53Z")
> [@dataguy](#): > > I’m really trying to understand what it is that people who claim to dislike/hate Obamacare are so displeased with. I’m not talking about the politicians, I’m talking about the “people”. All I ever hear is things like “Obamacare is trash…” “Obamacare is the worst thing to happen to this country…” > > I never hear anyone say what specific features of Obamacare are so objectionable. Can anyone here provide a few concrete examples of objectionable features? I’m not trying to argue for or against it, I just would like to see some concrete objections. What i find most objectionable is the fact that if one chooses to live without insurance as I have for 20 years and more one has to pay a fine for it. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-being-a-democrat/704968/36 "2014-11-18T23:53:45Z")
Supporters of ACA would just say that makes you a bad person, but the politicians who support ACA aren’t willing to do that. And if they aren’t, they can’t really stand by the policy either. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-being-a-democrat/704968/37 "2014-11-19T00:05:12Z")
> [@DingoelGringo](#): > > What i find most objectionable is the fact that if one chooses to live without insurance as I have for 20 years and more one has to pay a fine for it. If you can’t pay for the medical care you get in the future (like, say, some sort of catastrophe that takes you to the emergency room), we’ll be paying for it anyway. Certainly not the best system – universal health care would be far, far better. But the ACA with the mandate is better, overall, then the system was without it, in my view. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-being-a-democrat/704968/38 "2014-11-19T00:10:48Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Hopefully this means you’ll stop considering Barack Obama to be a good communicator. Did Reagan or Clinton ever fail to defend their policies? Heck, did GWB ever fail to aggressively defend his policies? > > There’s just no effective messaging going on. Obama does defend his policies, in a very defensive manner that pretty much concedes that he’s got something to be defensive about. And since no one else in the party has his back… I disagree with this. I think Obama is a very effective communicator and is consistently doing an excellent job at it. No matter how good of a communicator a president is, no one is guaranteed consistent popularity for him and his policies. All the other presidents you name have been extremely unpopular at times, and have suffered congressional losses comparable to what Obama just did. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-being-a-democrat/704968/39 "2014-11-19T00:34:27Z")
Not twice. And the Democrats have been set back a LOT. Not every President sees the popularity of his party drop to an all time low, or see state representation drop to the lowest levels since the 1920s, or see the lowest levels in the House since Hoover. His ability to speak a lot, and in complete sentences, shouldn’t be confused for effective communication. He’s usually defensive and angry when he speaks. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-being-a-democrat/704968/40 "2014-11-19T00:43:54Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Not twice. And the Democrats have been set back a LOT. Not every President sees the popularity of his party drop to an all time low, or see state representation drop to the lowest levels since the 1920s, or see the lowest levels in the House since Hoover. > > His ability to speak a lot, and in complete sentences, shouldn’t be confused for effective communication. He’s usually defensive and angry when he speaks. Hyperbole – you’re unable to restrain your extreme negative personal opinion of the man. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-being-a-democrat/704968.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-being-a-democrat/704968.md?page=3)