I agree with what you are saying. The game didn’t work for you. Or, you would like to find a game that handles that aspect of it more realistically than what CS does.
I think it’s balance, as normal, and what the games want to emphasize. It does make me wonder if certain “real” aspects have been shown to reduce sales or it’s not the real aspects most gamers want, so that goes out the door?
I agree with what you say about FC2. What I don’t like, though, is that they gave me a penalty in something that I could easily work on between missions, to make sure my gun is as clean and usable as it could be. They didn’t. So, I have to work around a penalty that I can never fix.
The other problem is subjective stuff. I play Battlefield 2 with a friend who was in the army national guard and over in Iraq. He constantly qualified on the M16 with top marks. He hated the M16 in the game because it wasn’t as accurate as he is. I think, in the context of this game, they downed the ranges of the guns, because otherwise, the M16 could probably be used as a better sniper rifle! I could be wrong, though.
Oh dear god yes. You could pick up a brand new M4, and it’s guaranteed to jam within 200 rounds. Even the bolt action sniper rifle would jam within 50 rounds or so. And like vislor said, there wasn’t a damn thing you could do about it. Even when you spent half the game sleeping in a shack to wait for nighttime so you could do the missions in the dark - heaven forbid you spend 30 minutes cleaning the bolt & chamber. It was as bad as System Shock 2.
I have a feeling these are the same people who design fumble tables in D&D.
“You’re telling me my high level fighter just slipped on a banana peel and cut off his own arm? With a hammer?”
“Yeah. It’s more realistic that way!”
:smack:
Which also isn’t even the case. The more you penalize reloading, in any of the variety of ways mentioned in this thread, the more you incentivize accuracy. Speed is, of course, already heavily incentivized, so these changes actually wind up giving more of an advantage to the precise twitch shooters, not less. Someone good enough to defeat all enemies in a single magazine, which was not at all uncommon at the higher levels of Rainbow Six multiplay, wouldn’t even be affected by any of them.
The actual penalty is delivered to spraying wildly with little thought for timing or consequences, and that’s not such a bad thing.
No, I didn’t say that. Ammo wouldn’t be discarded in my proposal, but rather your loadouts would give you a set number of magazines. If you reload a magazine that has 15 rounds left in it, then a 15 round magazine goes back into your magazine pouch.
Yeah, because anyone who has any disagreements with you about how games are designed must really just be bad players and are trying to take out the skill so they don’t lose so badly. You got me, oh gaming god. My desires are transparent to someone as incisive and brilliant as yourself. Games are perfect upon release, any criticism is whining, l2p noob.
That’s awesome. I’ve spent countless hours playing the Rainbow Six series, starting with the first and through to Raven Shield. It’s probably my favourite series. I see you “only” designed the first one, but I think it also carried a lot of influence to the successors. Excellent job!
Which is what? The straw man that I demanded that games be so realistic that when you got shot in them you had to shoot yourself in real life for logical consistency?
Wow, FPS royalty graces the dope, and I never knew.
I didn’t really play Rainbow 6, but I played Rogue Spear a lot. It was basically the same engine (correct me if I’m wrong) as R6. My housemate at the time and I would actually practise room-clearing on the training levels, over and over again, until we were a very slick and regimented team. Have never done that on any other game, before or since. Great days.
Also played a lot of Action Quake 2 (mentioned above), and later on Action Half-Life. AQ2 was well ahead of its time. AHL has features which have still never been topped - I was an expert knife-thrower and routinely opted for these over guns. Got laughed at at LAN parties … but not for long!
This touches on a wider issue - the death of the simulation game. Nobody makes flight sims any more, nor racing simulation (like the Grand Prix series), nor any ‘serious’ sports games (and I don’t include anything EA vomit into the market in this category). Why make a realistic PC game when you can make a fun multi-platform game that works just as well on a console controller, and make ten times the revenue?
RTS excepted, ‘the thinking man’s X’ doesn’t have enough mass-market appeal, and for that I am very sad. One of the reasons I don’t play may games any more…
Just FTR, this arcadey-reloading thing significantly predates Counterstrike. I remember it being one of the first things I noticed in Goldeneye, for example.
In COD1 or 2- I forget which- there’s realistic reloading with the M1 Garand. For some reason (I guess so you’d notice their attention to detail with the out-of-ammo “ping” noise the Garand made) you couldn’t refill a clip; you could only toss it regardless of how full it was, or fire until it was empty.
Strangely, all the other weapons in the game used arcadey reloading.
I played all Rainbow Sixes up to Vegas, when they dropped the planning - and me with it. See, I absolutely suck at snapshooting, and the bad guys always had the drop on me - and since R6 is pretty much one shot, one kill, I kept on losing operatives. Eventually, I stopped doing the missions altogether and concentrated on the planning alone. I planned, and planned, and planned some more, then hit play without choosing a character and watched AI good guys executing my flawless plans and mowing down hordes of AI bad guys. Very relaxing
ETA :
I do recall that - both in CoD and Medal of Honor I believe. Historical accuracy, for once - the Garand wasn’t fitted with a modern magazine, but a fixed bloc of bullets that got ejected once all had been fired. You either had to shoot it empty, or strip it to remove the partly used bloc. The loud “ping” was also an issue, since it made it clear for everyone around that you were empty. There are tales of Japanese soldiers timing banzai charges when they heard a series of “pings”, indicating that the squad was mostly busy reloading.
US troops armed with Garands eventually figured out that if they tossed one of the empty cartridges on the ground, enemy soldiers would hear the ping, assume they were out and pop their heads up to shoot- at which point the doughboy, who actually had a full clip, would kill them.
In MOH and sequels, Garand toters just dumped any remaining rounds into the floor to get a new clip (it only reloaded when empty), you didn’t stay alive long enough to worry about conserving ammo.
He’s not the only one :). You can eject a partially full clip from a Garand, in which case the clip and all the remaining rounds fly all over the place - the only thing holding the rounds in the clip is the spring pressure of the clip itself - it can’t hold anything less than a full 8 rounds. So collecting the rounds from wherever they rolled to and refilling the clips (which is a giant pain in the ass) is even less realistic than combining ammo from partial magazines back into full mags. If I was in combat and wanted to reload on a partial clip, I’d just put the remain rounds downrange as fast as I could - who knows, you might hit something.
MOH:Allied Assault definitely required you to fire the Garand empty before it would reload - the reload key didn’t do anything if you had the Garand equipped.
And I question the whole “enemy charges when they hear a ping” story - it’s not that loud, especially if you’re slightly deafened from all the actual gunfire going on at the time. And reloading a Garand takes less than 5 seconds - how far can a heavily equipped soldier charge in that time? Most likely you’d wind up face to face with a guy who has a fresh 8 rounds in his semiautomatic rifle, which is a bad place to be when you’ve got a bolt action.
Just tried Medal of Honor:Allied Assault and Call of Duty 1. Both require you to fire a Garand empty before you can reload it - hitting the reload key does nothing. Actually, the animation for ejecting a partially full clip would have been pretty funny - you’ve got to hold the bolt back, then press the clip latch, then the clip and the remaining rounds pop out and go all over the place.
That was actually SOP during WW2. GIs were told to empty their rifles somewhere safe (or in the general direction of the enemy) if they wanted to quickly top their mags.
Like I said, tales ;). But it needn’t be a charge - it’s the time to pop your head up to see what’s what, chuck a grenade and so forth. Letting the enemy know exactly when you’re out is just bad design, and the Army figured it out soon enough. They tried to do something about it (like plastic blocs, less powerful springs…) but the war was over before they got the issue ironed out.
