# I hate guns and irresponsible gun owners and stupid adolescents... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 10, 2001, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898 "2001-07-10T01:22:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2001, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/41 "2001-07-10T17:31:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JavaMaven1 \* > \*\*Define sarcasm. > > The **minty green’s** post was a reaction against the pro-gun crowd who thinks that the OP was a total diatribe against banning guns. > > The “You hate teenage boys?” comment is in response to **UncleBeer’s** post. > > Please re-read the _thread_ and try again. \*\* How do you read that? Look at his post. There is no sarcasm which is blatantly obvious to me. You are saying that the whole teenage boy bit is “sarcasm”? And how do you determine this? So this bit about: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by mintygreen_ > **"Would it make you feel better if an adult had gotten shot in the head? Preferably the parent of the teenage boy?"** was sarcasm? Or was it: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by mintygreen_ > **"But despite the emotional loss and pain, despite your immediate desire to rid the world of the perceived evil, please take a nice, calming breath and realize that this was NOT the fault of teenage boys, nor the parents of teenage boys, nor teenage boy anything-else-ers. This was the fault of a single 15-year-old boy who, horribly, messed up. Don’t allow your emotions to drum up hatred against those teenage boys who have committed no wrong."** ( note the use of multiple {QUOTE}'s to define who says what… ) Is this the sarcasm? Just how much of the post is sarcasm and how much isn’t? Or is it just the one line that is attributed to **UncleBeer**? With powerful and well-written words like those, it sure doesn’t sound like a sarcastic response to the gun-related responses in this thread. It sounds like a well-written, well-intentioned post that missed the target at the very end. That’s what it sounded like to me at the time. Having now been informed that in fact multiple posters are being quoted within the same post, with only one being credited, it makes more sense now. **Nowhere in his post was UncleBeer’s post attributed to him.** Nowhere was UncleBeer referred to as being the subject. I submit that quoting multiple posters without referencing them does not lead to a clear post. In fact, **the practice is not a very good one for use on this Board**. IMO, it was a nice, but unintentionally unclear post. So can you not admit that it could have been interpreted that way??? My point - take another look yourself; it’s not really that clear at all. **And don’t jump on my ass for misunderstanding it. I wasn’t rude at all to mintygreen.** I have nothing against Mr/Ms mintygreen at all, who seems like a decent person, and I thought the sentiments in the first 90% of their post were good. Please don’t start poking “mean old **Anthracite** ” for my “brutal flame” here today without seriously thinking it about it some more, OK? And **Flymaster** - did I piss you off or something in another thread? 😕 All the above applies equally. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2001, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/42 "2001-07-10T17:48:34Z")
Don’t worry, I’m far from offended, **Anthracite**. But just to explain, every line between the “knee-jerk” brackets in my post was taken directly from posters who flamed (even mildly, in the case of SPOOFE) **psychobunny** for being pissed off that a gun (Quick, call Charlton Heston and break out the British crime statistics!) led to the death of her patient. All I did was substitute “teenage boy” for “gun” to show how overblown their complaints were. psychobunny was not calling for the banning of guns any more than she was calling for the banning of teenage boys, so it was ridiculous for anyone to flame her for doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Medea\_s\_Child](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Medea\_s\_Child](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Medea_s_Child)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2001, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/43 "2001-07-10T17:58:47Z")
So no one is allowed to say that irresponsible gun ownership is bad? I beg to differ. Irresponsible gun owners are dangerous, to themselves, to others, and to the right to bear arms. As far as I can tell the OP said nothing about taking away any rights. Not a word. It was a rant about irresponsablity and stupidity that caused the death of a decent person. Isn’t this an issue that pro gun rights (or whatever) are supposed to be adamant about? That if guns are treated with respect and knowledge they are not inherently dangerous, but if they are not used responsibly by the people in contact with the machines they can cause tragic injuries? This is a perfect case in point not for taking guns away but for supporting responsible gun ownership. ---
**Author:** ![Flymaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c4cdca/32.png) [@Flymaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flymaster)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2001, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/44 "2001-07-10T18:03:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Anthracite \* > \*\*And **Flymaster** - did I piss you off or something in another thread? 😕 All the above applies equally. \*\* No, and I’m sorry if I came off as sounding pissed. The 😃 smiley didn’t override the “fucking” I guess, but the sentence just didn’t sound quite right without it. I’m sorry for any confusion that may have arisen. I was mostly just taking a good natured jab at you. I didn’t know it was loaded, I swear. I was just playing around, and it went off. Irresponsible “fuck” ownership is bad, too, kids. But, in all fairness, it WAS pretty clearly taken verbatim from previous posts. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2001, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/45 "2001-07-10T18:08:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\*Don’t worry, I’m far from offended, **Anthracite**. But just to explain, every line between the “knee-jerk” brackets in my post was taken directly from posters who flamed (even mildly, in the case of SPOOFE) **psychobunny** for being pissed off that a gun (Quick, call Charlton Heston and break out the British crime statistics!) led to the death of her patient. All I did was substitute “teenage boy” for “gun” to show how overblown their complaints were. psychobunny was not calling for the banning of guns any more than she was calling for the banning of teenage boys, so it was ridiculous for anyone to flame her for doing so. \*\* Thank you very much for explaining nicely to me, **mintygreen**. I understand the post, and your point, much better now. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2001, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/46 "2001-07-10T18:30:31Z")
Shoulda used a :rolleyes: smilie, huh? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2001, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/47 "2001-07-10T18:48:32Z")
I’m all for owning guns responsibly. Why is it anathema for gun-owners to accept the idea that not everyone should have guns, anymore than anyone should be allowed to drive a car? Crazy people should not have guns, people too stupid to keep them out of the hands of children should not be allowed to have guns; and people who don’t check a gun to see if it’s loaded should not be allowed to own a gun. > [@](#): > > You see, the Bill of Rights doesn’t actually grant U.S. citizens their rights; it is simply a device to remind the government what pre-existing rights we hold Absolutely, but you fail to mention that the state is a mechanism to carry out the general will of the people, which empowers the state to curtail individual rights as punishment. We allow the state to lock people in prison, we allow the state to take away a person’s driver’s license, and we should allow the state to remove a person’s right to own guns if he allows a death to happen through carelessness (and leaving guns out for kids to find counts as carelessness.) Mind, I’m talking about INDIVIDUAL cases only. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2001, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/48 "2001-07-10T19:00:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by goboy \* > \*\*I’m all for owning guns responsibly. Why is it anathema for gun-owners to accept the idea that not everyone should have guns, anymore than anyone should be allowed to drive a car? > Crazy people should not have guns, people too stupid to keep them out of the hands of children should not be allowed to have guns; and people who don’t check a gun to see if it’s loaded should not be allowed to own a gun. \*\* Except 1. There’s no way to tell in advance that someone’s not going to check if a gun’s loaded 2. Because the anti-Second Ammendment types are _never_ satisfied. They passed the phoney “gun show ‘loophole’” law (aka: The “We don’t approve of the freedom to assemble” law which made the rules for buying guns at a gun show different from anywhere else in the state…and defined a gun-show as three or more gun owners in the same room discussing guns) in Colorado and _the very next day_ S.A.F.E. (a gun-grabber group) was on the news talking about how they have to close the “newspaper loophole” (aka the “We don’t much like the freedom of the press, either” bill) When gun-grabbers start talking responsibly (admitting that “militia”=“adults”, “the people”=“individuals” not state governments, that handguns are a legitimate weapon, that individuals have a right to self-defense, etc…) _then_ maybe I’ll listen. Until then, I’ll fight EVERY proposal they make tooth and nail, since _any_ victory gives the gun-grabbers “ammo” to go to the next level of their agenda. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![NPavelka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/edb3f5/32.png) [@NPavelka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NPavelka)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2001, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/49 "2001-07-10T19:09:27Z")
> [@](#): > > This is so wrong. I can’t believe how incredibly misinformed you are. About 15 minutes of reading will clear up this misconception you hold. Try _The Federalist #29_. And the NRA has only been around for about 130 years now, we’ve had a 2nd amendment right since, well, time immemorial. You see, the Bill of Rights doesn’t actually grant U.S. citizens their rights; it is simply a device to remind the government what pre-existing rights we hold. You have the completely wrong idea of the nature of our Republic. The Constitution is the framework that tells the government what the people will allow it to do for them, not, as you seem to think, what the government will allow the people to do. Please read a history book. \*\* Silly me… I’m not a history major (Biochemistry), I never found much liking for it. We can’t all be as informed as you “Oh Great Wise One”, sorry I can’t have known the REAL intention of the Bill of Rights. As for pre-existing rights… what gives the general populace the right to own a destructive force such as a gun? (ok… inserty arguments about cars being just as deadly)… but we need to be liscened and regristered to drive a vehicle, not to mention mandiatory insurance laws. When every gun is liscened and regristered… and the gun owner is FORCED to have insurance on any damage that gun may do then I’m all for the general populace owning guns. Now go have a fifth of whiskey and clean your precious gun… hopefully loaded. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2001, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/50 "2001-07-10T19:31:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NPavelka \* > **Silly me… I’m not a history major (Biochemistry), I never found much liking for it. We can’t all be as informed as you “Oh Great Wise One”, sorry I can’t have known the REAL intention of the Bill of Rights.** Well, he provided you with a good reference, so now you can be more informed on the deeper issues. Your tone of mockery is uncalled-for. > [@](#): > > **As for pre-existing rights… what gives the general populace the right to own a destructive force such as a gun?** The right of an individual to defend their own life, and the sanctity of their body from abuse by others. It is a right which must be balanced with the added risk to others through accidents, stupidity, and crime. > [@](#): > > \*\*Now go have a fifth of whiskey and clean your precious gun… hopefully loaded. \*\* I say…3 more days? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2001, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/51 "2001-07-10T19:34:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NPavelka \* > \*\*Now go have a fifth of whiskey and clean your precious gun… hopefully loaded. \*\* I think I speak for people on both sides of the debate when I say: this is vile, and you are an asshole for this comment. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![NPavelka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/edb3f5/32.png) [@NPavelka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NPavelka)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2001, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/52 "2001-07-10T19:56:01Z")
> [@](#): > > The right of an individual to defend their own life, and the sanctity of their body from abuse by others. It is a right which must be balanced with the added risk to others through accidents, stupidity, and crime. I did read the refrence, and if anything it backed my point a bit… “To oblige the great body of the yeomanry, and of the other classes of the citizens, to be under arms for the purpose of going through military exercises and evolutions, as often as might be necessary to acquire the degree of perfection which would entitle them to the character of a well-regulated militia, would be a real grievance to the people, and a serious public inconvenience and loss.” This is talking about people taking target practice and learning how to work a gun for the defence of the country, not everybody has a right to a gun to defend themselves. This section was also good… “This will not only lessen the call for military establishments, but if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens.” Hamilton’s era was one of complex and difficult to use weapons (hardly called guns by today’s standards) so people needed to be trained to use them, but when a 15 year old CHILD can figure out how to use a modern weapon with no help then I really don’t think we need to be worried about this. As for UB not being condensending… well he was and I certinally didn’t respond with too harsh of words… this is the Pit afterall. If you are worried about defending yourself then take a martial art or there are sevral nonlethal weapons on the market that are legal to carry, unlike hand guns. Just ask youself something… if an attacker has a gun drawn on you, do you think they will give you time to retrive your weapon from where ever you have it? Anyway what do Lesbian Vampires need with guns anyway? ---
**Author:** ![ultress](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/7c8e57/32.png) [@ultress](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultress)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2001, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/53 "2001-07-10T19:58:52Z")
I would say, less than 3 days. Get ready for another ‘banned without reason’ thread. ---
**Author:** ![NPavelka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/edb3f5/32.png) [@NPavelka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NPavelka)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2001, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/54 "2001-07-10T20:10:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ultress \* > \*\*I would say, less than 3 days. Get ready for another ‘banned without reason’ thread. \*\* If UB is a responsible gun owner, he should not have taken any offence to that, however if he did… Anyway this IS the PIT, he took his moderator hat off when he posted in this forum, if he wants to ban me for an offhand “wiseass” remark… then there is nothing I can do about it. But the funny thing is I sure don’t see alot of people in here appologizing for making smart ass remarks. I was certinally prepared to get flamed… but was he? When you stick your neck out on a hot topic like this, it comes from both sides. ---
**Author:** ![red\_dragon60](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@red\_dragon60](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/red_dragon60)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2001, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/55 "2001-07-10T20:41:16Z")
**Psychobunny** , my condolences. To the rest of you: only two posts and this devolves into a gun debate? Fuck you. Fuck all of you. Do you really care about the OP? Seems like just about everyone posting here has their own agenda to push. Push it in GD. Hell, I’ll even start a thread for you to do this in there if you cannot yourselves. Fuck off and grow up. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2001, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/56 "2001-07-10T21:00:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NPavelka \* > \*\*I was certinally prepared to get flamed… but was he? When you stick your neck out on a hot topic like this, it comes from both sides. \*\* As a member of the ‘I don’t really like guns, thanks’ folks, I can assure you that **UncleBeer** has no problem dealing with being flamed, if done w/style. However, let me assure you that I find any suggestion that anothe poster in some way die, (as you did with your crack about him cleaning his gun while drunk or however it was phrased), is beyond what I find acceptable. So, if you were looking for converts, not only didn’t you make them, but you also managed to alienate your allies as well. On the OP (and, I might add, this seems to be a rareity for this thread): I can sympathize with her emotions at knowing a young person has died through some preventable accident. and, I agree w/whoever pointed out ( **Medea’s Child?** ) that it should be perfectly acceptable (yes, even to those staunch supporters of the 2nd am.) to rail against ‘irresponsable gun owners/users’. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2001, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/57 "2001-07-10T21:40:36Z")
> [@](#): > > _blink_ wait a sec… > So no one is allowed to say that irresponsible gun ownership is bad? Nope, I don’t think anyone is saying that at all. What I and I believe the others are responding indignantly to it the first three words of the title of this thread. **I hate guns.**" Seems like a sweeping indictment to me. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2001, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/58 "2001-07-10T21:55:27Z")
I’s sorry **NPavelka** , but you’ve quoted out of context. Here are the three relevant paragraphs. When taken together they assume an entirely different meaning than the small portion you’ve selected. > [@](#): > > By a curious refinement upon the spirit of republican jealousy, we are even taught to apprehend danger from the militia itself, in the hands of the federal government. It is observed that select corps may be formed, composed of the young and ardent, who may be rendered subservient to the views of arbitrary power. What plan for the regulation of the militia may be pursued by the national government, is impossible to be foreseen. But so far from viewing the matter in the same light with those who object to select corps as dangerous, were the Constitution ratified, and were I to deliver my sentiments to a member of the federal legislature from this State on the subject of a militia establishment, I should hold to him, in substance, the following discourse: > ``The project of disciplining all the militia of the United States is as futile as it would be injurious, if it were capable of being carried into execution. A tolerable expertness in military movements is a business that requires time and practice. It is not a day, or even a week, that will suffice for the attainment of it. To oblige the great body of the yeomanry, and of the other classes of the citizens, to be under arms for the purpose of going through military exercises and evolutions, as often as might be necessary to acquire the degree of perfection which would entitle them to the character of a well-regulated militia, would be a real grievance to the people, and a serious public inconvenience and loss. It would form an annual deduction from the productive labor of the country, to an amount which, calculating upon the present numbers of the people, would not fall far short of the whole expense of the civil establishments of all the States. To attempt a thing which would abridge the mass of labor and industry to so considerable an extent, would be unwise: and the experiment, if made, could not succeed, because it would not long be endured. Little more can reasonably be aimed at, with respect to the people at large, than to have them properly armed and equipped; and in order to see that this be not neglected, it will be necessary to assemble them once or twice in the course of a year. > “But though the scheme of disciplining the whole nation must be abandoned as mischievous or impracticable; yet it is a matter of the utmost importance that a well-digested plan should, as soon as possible, be adopted for the proper establishment of the militia. The attention of the government ought particularly to be directed to the formation of a select corps of moderate extent, upon such principles as will really fit them for service in case of need. By thus circumscribing the plan, it will be possible to have an excellent body of well-trained militia, ready to take the field whenever the defense of the State shall require it. This will not only lessen the call for military establishments, but if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist.” Now, what this tells us is that the founding fathers, in this specific case, Alexander Hamilton, found the idea of a standing army repulsive. Nor did he believe the American people would find a standing army desireable or economically feasible. However, as this fragment clearly expresses, **“… but if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens,”** Hamilton felt that should, whatever the cause, a despotic military regime arise, the armed populace should be capable of effectively fighting back. This is all very clear. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2001, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/59 "2001-07-10T22:03:54Z")
For the record, I did NOT flame the OP (anyone who would consider my comments as a “flame” is probably a tad thin-skinned). What I DID do was try to remind her (I assume that’s a “her”) that, despite her (admittedly justifiable) emotional distress, there IS another side to the issue. “I hate guns and want them all destroyed” is NOT a solution. Now, if you want a REAL flame, I suggest you wait 'til NPavelka opens his ignorant little mouth again (here’s a hint, twit… learn a thing or two about something before you begin debating it). ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2001, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/60 "2001-07-10T22:14:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > \*\*For the record, I did NOT flame the OP (anyone who would consider my comments as a “flame” is probably a tad thin-skinned). What I DID do was try to remind her (I assume that’s a “her”) that, despite her (admittedly justifiable) emotional distress, there IS another side to the issue. “I hate guns and want them all destroyed” is NOT a solution. > \*\* actually, though the line “I hate guns” is in the thread title, I think she (and she mentions being a female doctor in her OP) she mentions in her OP > [@](#): > > I just wish all these idiotic gun owners would lock up their guns or better yet get rid of them entirely, Now, since this is referring to a case where some unsupervised teens got a hold of said guns, I’d believe that the ‘idiotic gun owners’ referred to are those who would leave them available to untrained hands (assuming that if the 15 year old had been properly trained, the accident wouldn’t have happened either), and the ‘guns’ to be gotten rid of entirely are those of said idiotic gun owner. That at the least is a possible interpretation of the OP, and I think it would have been proper to get clarification from the OP first before snapping her head off with the gun diatribe. Then we could have all ranted about idiots who would leave guns available to untrained 15 year olds who’d then kill their friend. And I suspect that we all could relate to that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898.md?page=4)