# I hate guns and irresponsible gun owners and stupid adolescents... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 10, 2001, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898 "2001-07-10T01:22:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2001, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/61 "2001-07-10T23:23:36Z")
What **wring** said. Calling your post a “flame” might have been a bit much, **SPOOFE** , but it was criticism for a position she did not take. Now you might be right that it _is_ **psychobunny** ’s position, but it was rather premature for anybody to jump to that conclusion and start to lecture her on the glories of the Second Amendment. Have a little respect, people. And as to the “I hate guns” in the thread title . . . big deal. I hate bad sitcoms. Yet it would be wrong for anyone to conclude I want them banned, even if I go on a rant about NBC’s pathetic excuse for a Thursday night lineup. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2001, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/62 "2001-07-10T23:42:52Z")
> [@](#): > > but it was criticism for a position she did not take. I guess you missed the part where the OP said “I just wish all these idiotic gun owners would lock up their guns or better yet **get rid of them entirely** ”. (Bolding mine). I don’t care whether or not Psychobunny hates guns or not… however, desiring for all guns to be gotten rid of just because of a single incident, however unfortunate, is an overreaction. ---
**Author:** ![Billy\_Rubin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billy_rubin/32/3622_2.png) [@Billy\_Rubin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billy_Rubin)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/63 "2001-07-11T00:11:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBeer \* > > **"… but if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens,"** Hamilton felt that should, whatever the cause, a despotic military regime arise, the armed populace should be capable of effectively fighting back. This is all very clear. \*\* [all the sincerity I can muster]Uncle Beer, I love you man![/all the sincerity I can muster] I’ve never in my life wanted a tattoo. I want this tattooed on my ass so when someone wises off about gun control I can moon 'em and educate them at the same time. b. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/64 "2001-07-11T00:38:53Z")
{{{{{ **psychobunny** }}}}} I am so sorry for what happened to your patient. I wish I knew a way to prevent these kinds of senseless tragedies. I wish people were more careful with deadly weapons, and I wish that teenagers would absorb and take to heart the many positive lessons the world has to teach instead of the violence and ugliness. And for the record, notwithstanding the Second Amendment, and people who like to hunt, and those who feel that guns are necessary for personal protection, and those who fear that without guns we will be powerless against government oppression, **I too hate guns** , and I firmly believe that if there were no guns, the world would be a much better place. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/65 "2001-07-11T01:27:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBeer \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > _blink_ wait a sec… > > So no one is allowed to say that irresponsible gun ownership is bad? > > Nope, I don’t think anyone is saying that at all. What I and I believe the others are responding indignantly to it the first three words of the title of this thread. **I hate guns.**" Seems like a sweeping indictment to me. \*\* Far be it from me to interfere with all the jerking knees, but: UncleBeer, you _do_ see the difference between this: **I hate guns** and this: **I hate gun owners** Right? I hate guns, and swords and spears and grenade launchers and nuclear weapons and stealth bombers. So…what? Does that make me bad person? Nope. Does that make you a bad person for owning (or not hating) guns? Nope. You also see the difference between this: **I hate guns** and this: **Great, I hate doctors.** Right? One’s a _thing_, the other’s a _person_\*. (italics not meant to convey condescension, but to emphasize my point) And, while I’m risking the fiery pits of Hell here, how about this, from **SPOOFE** : \*\* > [@](#): > > Yeah, it sure sucks that a kid got shot in the head. But the second you use that to justify punishing ME, you’re gonna get a talkin’-to.\*\* Did you see that? That was **SPOOFE** ’s knee jerking wildly. I can only note that nowhere in the OP did I see where **Psychobunny** mentioned anything about using the fact that her _friend got killed_ (and, yeah, doesn’t that just suck? :rolleyes: ) to start punishing all gun owners. I took it as a rail against _irresponsible gun owners_. And this: \*\* > [@](#): > > I guess you missed the part where the OP said “I just wish all these idiotic gun owners would lock up their guns or better yet get rid of them entirely”. (Bolding mine). I don’t care whether or not Psychobunny hates guns or not… however, desiring for all guns to be gotten rid of just because of a single incident, however unfortunate, is an overreaction.\*\* And I see your interpretation of **Psychobunny** ’s statement to be an over-reaction as well. I read **Psychobunny** ’s statement to mean that **idiotic gun owners [should] get rid of them entirely**. But, with many such statements, I guess we read into them what we want to read. Look, I’m hardly the most logical or well-reasoned poster on these boards. But is it common practice to _not_ stop and think for, say, about ten minutes before going off half-cocked about one’s civil rights being trampled every time the word “gun” is mentioned? I’d have to say that the post which probably sums up my feelings over the direction this thread has taken was that of **red\_dragon60** ’s: \*\* > [@](#): > > To the rest of you: only two posts and this devolves into a gun debate? Fuck you. Fuck all of you. Do you really care about the OP? > Seems like just about everyone posting here has their own agenda to push. Push it in GD. Hell, I’ll even start a thread for you to do this in there if you cannot yourselves. > > Fuck off and grow up.\*\* My sincere condolences, **Psychobunny**. ---
**Author:** ![Jester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jester/32/8223_2.png) [@Jester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jester)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/66 "2001-07-11T01:38:50Z")
**SPOOFE** , **wring** already responded to that quote. From that line, I got that psychobunny wishes that all _irresponsible_ gun owners would get rid of their guns. Not all gun owners everywhere. And even if she DID mean it that way, would it have hurt you to at least given her the benefit of the doubt and asked for clarification on the point? It would have at least made your post seem a bit more justifiable. And **NPavelka** , you ignorant fuck. Just shut up already. I’m not a frequent Pit-goer, but even **I** am sick of this goddamed “It’s the Pit, so I can be an asshole” rule that littls goatfelchers like you use all the time. Yes, this is the Pit. That does NOT mean that you can rightfully be an asshole to somebody, just because they beat you in an argument. Harsh words are reserved for assholes, like yourself. **UncleBeer** did nothing to provoke your flame than prove you wrong, and if you’re going to fly off the handle over something like that, then you need to find somewhere else on the 'Net to play. And **psychobunny** , I’m terribly sorry to hear your story. It’s always sad to hear about someone with such potential to be denied the chance to live up to it. Sorry for adding to the hijack. ---
**Author:** ![Nothing\_But\_Net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e47c2d/32.png) [@Nothing\_But\_Net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nothing_But_Net)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/67 "2001-07-11T02:03:37Z")
I liked the “tapestry of life” comment that was made, that pretty much sums it up. You cannot predict the future, and entropy demands that the future cannot work for you. You must take life as it comes and do the best you can. Nobody expects any more. ---
**Author:** ![Nothing\_But\_Net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e47c2d/32.png) [@Nothing\_But\_Net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nothing_But_Net)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/68 "2001-07-11T02:10:56Z")
I liked the “tapestry of life” comment that was made, that pretty much sums it up. You cannot predict the future, and entropy demands that the future cannot work for you. You must take life as it comes and do the best you can. Nobody expects any more. ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/69 "2001-07-11T02:35:25Z")
Time for a clarification: I HATE GUNS (personal opinion, does not mean I am against the second amendment or that I think all guns should be banned) I HATE IRRESPOSIBLE GUN OWNERS (those that allow teenagers access to guns without assuring that they understand gun safety-also a personal opinion; you are therefore free to hate irresponsible doctors) I WISH IDIOTIC GUN OWNERS (see above) WOULD GET RID OF THEIR GUNS (last I read the Bill of Rights it did not proscribe wishing for anything) That said, I should not have attacked all teenage males; I just wish some of them were not so stupid. I am afraid I don’t know how to do links but if a helpful mod wants to clean it up for me-here is the URL for the story: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38821-2001Jul9.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38821-2001Jul9.html) Finally-this is the PIT! If you want to debate gun control go to GD-this is for ranting against stupidity! ---
**Author:** ![SanibelMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@SanibelMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanibelMan)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/70 "2001-07-11T02:48:17Z")
To **Psychobunny,** I am truly sorry for your loss. What a horrific tragedy. It is always painful to see tragic ends to promising futures such as his. I do hope that his friend does not suffer a similar fortune – there has been enough tragedy, and I am certain that he is extremely grief-stricken as it is. To everyone and anyone who started and/or continued the gun control debate: I hope you people don’t show up at funerals and display this type of behavior. This is an amazing level of immaturity to be displayed at this board. To take a thread wherein someone vents about such a horrible, tragic event and use it to promote their personal political agenda should be worthy of banishment, in my opinion. I know I, for one, do not and have not felt safe posting to threads on this board, for fear of just this sort of manipulation. Shame on you for taking someone’s grief and sorrow and turning it into a platform from which to spew your political ideologies. And **UncleBeer…** > [@](#): > > “I hate guns?” Great, I hate doctors. Not that you needed or wanted my respect in the first place, but you certainly do not have it now. To take a word, “guns,” and treat it as if it were a sacrosanct object of the highest devotion, and thereby be offended by its use in her title to the point of insulting her is beyond low. That you cannot see the difference between an object which is used both for defense and intentional harm and a living, breathing person with feelings and conscience is saddening, though perhaps not shocking. I have seen people rant about living, breathing creatures and not spew such bile in return as I have seen people rant about their precious guns in this thread. Grow the fuck up. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/71 "2001-07-11T03:04:07Z")
Amen, **psychobunny**! ---
**Author:** ![SanibelMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@SanibelMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanibelMan)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/72 "2001-07-11T03:12:34Z")
Er, um, yeah. Sorry, Psychobunny, I didn’t see your last post before I posted. And mine would have been a lot shorter had I. Now I feel like I just made the problem worse. Dammit. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/73 "2001-07-11T03:30:08Z")
(ducking under the crossfire for just a moment): True, it’s been a very long day, and I thought it possible I had missed this in the rain of erudite references and venom that has characterized this discussion - but then I read the linked article and still… Where on earth is there hard evidence that some careless gun owner left his piece out where kids could get ahold of it? Even the Post story merely cites the two other teens telling police that a “young friend” gave them a gun that the friend obtained from his/her parents. For all we know, the teens actually _stole_ the gun, bought it from some low-rent type etc. Or maybe a dumb gun owner with children left it in an unlocked drawer. But **who knows**? The OP would have been better directed toward “too many guns on the street” than against a possibly mythical “irresponsible gun owner”. And a brief sidelight from the world of forensic pathology - experience shows that virtually all (if not all) cases of “accidental” self-inflicted gunshot wounds occurring while the victim was cleaning a gun, are actually suicides masquerading as accidents. ---
**Author:** ![MysterEcks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f475e1/32.png) [@MysterEcks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysterEcks)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/74 "2001-07-11T06:05:49Z")
Since I’m the one who got pissed off at the implication of the OP and title, and therefore started this thread on its slide into a gun argument, let me state for the record that I accept **psychobunny’s** clarification as meaning my interpretation was incorrect. Not unreasonable–it looked like a blanket condemnation of gun owners to me, and obviously struck others the same way–but incorrect. Whether or not Dr. Bunny herself hates guns, or even wants to ban them, is neither here nor there–that wasn’t my point. My point was that I declined to be stereotyped as “irresponsible” and/or “idiotic” because I own guns, if indeed that’s what she was doing–you will recall the _if_I had in my post. That’s the sole reason I brought the matter up in this thread…and since I was wrong in my interpretation, albeit reasonably wrong (I think), I apologize to **psychobunny** for it. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/75 "2001-07-11T09:01:13Z")
First thing’s first… a little clearing up… Darwin’s Finch… > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Yeah, it sure sucks that a kid got shot in the head. But the second you use that to justify punishing ME, you’re gonna get a talkin’-to. > > Did you see that? That was SPOOFE’s knee jerking wildly. > I can only note that nowhere in the OP did I see where Psychobunny mentioned anything about using the fact that her friend got killed (and, yeah, doesn’t that just suck? ) to start punishing all gun owners. Did you see that? That was Darwin’s Finch showing his inability to read. Take a look back at page one, and you’ll see that I was replying to Cheesesteak, NOT the OP. > [@](#): > > And I see your interpretation of Psychobunny’s statement to be an over-reaction as well. Well, do you want a medal? Am I suddenly not allowed to decipher someone’s OP to my liking? Look, jackass, for some twisted reason, I’m getting jumped on **for asking that the OP not blame all gun owners for the behavior of someone who was irresponsible**. That is all. I did NOT say, nor did I mean to imply (and if I gave that implication, I apologize), that I found the OP to be a condemnation of gun owners. I think it is very clear that the OP was distraught emotionally. In the midst of emotional distress, reason and judgment can be clouded (note for the true knee-jerkers of the board: I am not saying that emotions result in loss of reason). I just wanted to make sure the the OP understood that the tragedy was NOT the result of the existence of guns at all. I see that Pyschobunny has posted a clarification of her post, and I thank her for that. I am glad to see that the true problem is known to her. (At least, I’m still assuming it’s a “her”… can ya clarify that one next?) (Note to those that I didn’t directly respond to: My statements to Darwin’s Finch stand. Don’t like how I interpret someone else’s post? Tough.) ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/76 "2001-07-11T11:46:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > \*_I see that Pyschobunny has posted a clarification of her post, and I thank her for that. I am glad to see that the true problem is known to her._ (At least, I’m still assuming it’s a “her”… can ya clarify that one next?) > > * * * (emphasis mine) In the OP, **PsychoBunny** identified herself as a ‘female Jewish doctor’. I repeated that statement in my post above. Seeing that you missed that explicit statement **twice** now, I can see why you’d have misunderstood her slightly less explicit statement relative to wishing irresponsable gun owners getting rid of **their** guns. ---
**Author:** ![Freedom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Freedom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freedom)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/77 "2001-07-11T13:58:52Z")
Sorry for your loss pyschobunny. Things like that suck beyond words. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/78 "2001-07-11T14:41:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > In the OP, **PsychoBunny** identified herself as a “female Jewish doctor.” You mean that doesn’t indicate **Dr. Bunny** practices only on Jewish women? Well, that would certainly explain the discrepancy of also having a black male teenager for a patient. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Billy\_Rubin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billy_rubin/32/3622_2.png) [@Billy\_Rubin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billy_Rubin)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2001, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898/79 "2001-07-12T02:51:05Z")
I won’t personally vouch for the veracity of this cite but I found it amusing considering the discussion. Mods help out if I mess [url:[http://www.mcsm.org/doctors1.html](http://www.mcsm.org/doctors1.html)]this up basically it says: > [@](#): > > The Seattle Washington Post-Intelligencer article concerning Accidental deaths caused by physicians has triggered a chain of thought that resulted in a person searching the web (not me) for some statistics and doing a few calculations. > > Number of physicians in the US - 700,000 > Accidental deaths caused per year - 120,000 > Accidental deaths/physician = 0.171 > Number of gun owners in the US = 80,000,000 > Number of accidental gun death / year (all age groups) = 1,500 > Accidental deaths/gun owner = 0.0000188 > > Therefore, Doctors are approximately 9000 times more dangerous than gun owners. I’ve seen similar figures for accidental “caused” by doctors published in the New England Journal of Medicine. b. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-guns-and-irresponsible-gun-owners-and-stupid-adolescents/71898.md?page=3)