# I hate it when a girl gives me "the speech" on a date **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 26, 2003, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-a-girl-gives-me-the-speech-on-a-date/204046 "2003-09-26T21:03:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![burundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ec8ea/32.png) [@burundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burundi)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-a-girl-gives-me-the-speech-on-a-date/204046/21 "2003-09-27T17:29:21Z")
> [@](#): > > If a guy’s looking for romance, why shouldn’t he move on to someone who might feel the same way? Because he might lose the chance to make a fun, interesting, intelligent friend. I’ve never understood the “I like you well enough to sleep with you, but not to be your friend” mentality. If I’m good to enough to have sex with, I’d like to think that I’m good enough to have coffee with, too. My social roster is never so full that I can’t add a new platonic friend of either sex. I’m not saying that you have to become friends with every woman you date, but it is insulting when someone want to hang out with you only if there’s the possibility of nookie. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-a-girl-gives-me-the-speech-on-a-date/204046/22 "2003-09-27T17:40:20Z")
Hm. Also begs the question “If you don’t want to be shot down, why do you keep asking out women that are emotionally unavailable?” Are you looking for a purely physical relationship? Come right out and say so, fercryinoutloud. We’re not mind readers, either. ---
**Author:** ![Vlad\_Dracul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/50afbb/32.png) [@Vlad\_Dracul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vlad_Dracul)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-a-girl-gives-me-the-speech-on-a-date/204046/23 "2003-09-27T18:37:55Z")
Why do so many people simply accept ambiguity without comment while talking to a potential date, then go quiz all their friends to see what the date meant? Whenever a woman told me anything that I found vague or confusing, I simply asked what she meant. If her answer wasn’t clear, I asked again. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-a-girl-gives-me-the-speech-on-a-date/204046/24 "2003-09-27T18:41:08Z")
Thank you, Vlad. You’re a gentleman. ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-a-girl-gives-me-the-speech-on-a-date/204046/25 "2003-09-27T18:46:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tclouie \* > \*\*I’ll post a new hypothesis, in the hope that it makes somebody mad enough to respond. Here goes: > > Most women want to be _desired_ by you, but not actually be _available_ to you. For them, the one-way street is the ideal. Example: _after_ Date #2 told me she was “talking” to someone else, I asked her, “Do you have any single friends who might be willing to go dancing with me?” > > I immediately got the impression I had said something wrong. \*\* Oh, it worked! Why on earth would you think of asking a woman after a date if she had any single friends? I don’t know if I’m in some sort of fantasyland, but I usually assume that even if they are talking that there’s still interest in pursuing something beyond the merely physical. To me, if you ask a woman if she has single friends, it’s like blatantly stating that all you want to do is to “bag another woman.” I know I tend to be a bit on the old-fashioned side, but isn’t the assumption on a date usually that feelers are being stuck out to see if there’s something more, and if you want to keep it just physical, you’d better state that in no uncertain terms up front? Or, just do what **Vlad** says. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-a-girl-gives-me-the-speech-on-a-date/204046/26 "2003-09-27T19:52:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by burundi \* > \*\*Because he might lose the chance to make a fun, interesting, intelligent friend. I’ve never understood the “I like you well enough to sleep with you, but not to be your friend” mentality. If I’m good to enough to have sex with, I’d like to think that I’m good enough to have coffee with, too. My social roster is never so full that I can’t add a new platonic friend of either sex. > > I’m not saying that you have to become friends with every woman you date, but it is insulting when someone want to hang out with you only if there’s the possibility of nookie. \*\* Whether or not a guy misses out on making a fun, interesting friend is obviously not the girl’s problem. If a guy goes out with you only because he wants to have sex with you, and you decline, then why do you want this guy around anyway? ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-a-girl-gives-me-the-speech-on-a-date/204046/27 "2003-09-27T20:06:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Snooooopy \* > \*\*Whether or not a guy misses out on making a fun, interesting friend is obviously not the girl’s problem. > > If a guy goes out with you only because he wants to have sex with you, and you decline, then why do you want this guy around anyway? \*\* Well, see, we don’t want him around. That’s why women don’t consider the “Let’s be friends” bit the heinous offense that men do. We DO, however, consider the “you’re good enough to be my semen receptacle but not my friend” treatment pretty damned insulting. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-a-girl-gives-me-the-speech-on-a-date/204046/28 "2003-09-27T21:15:20Z")
> [@](#): > > **tclouie** : Are you trying to get me arrested, or just slapped?? Kissing is illegal? If she slaps you for kissing her, she’s too high strung anyway. If she cock-punches you for kissing her, she’s definitely a sicko. ---
**Author:** ![jweb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/71c47a/32.png) [@jweb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jweb)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-a-girl-gives-me-the-speech-on-a-date/204046/29 "2003-09-27T21:51:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CrazyCatLady \* > \*\*That’s why women don’t consider the “Let’s be friends” bit the heinous offense that men do. We DO, however, consider the “you’re good enough to be my semen receptacle but not my friend” treatment pretty damned insulting. \*\* IMHO, it’s not quite like that. If I ask out a girl, it’s obviously someone I’d want to be friends with. But when I get turned down, it’s extremely difficult for me to hang around her again, at least for awhile, because every time I see her from then on, I get upset (not quite the word I’m looking for, but close enough) because I thought the relationship could have been something more then it is. I may not talk to you for a few days, or a few weeks, or whatever, simply because it’s easier for me to not talk to you rather then re-live the ‘pain of rejection’ over and over again. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-a-girl-gives-me-the-speech-on-a-date/204046/30 "2003-09-27T21:57:08Z")
How very far away he is, that man who was secretly hoping that is would be _she_ kissing _him_. Pipe dreams, still. Sorry to inturrupt. Tris ---
**Author:** ![Yersinia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/6bbea6/32.png) [@Yersinia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yersinia)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-a-girl-gives-me-the-speech-on-a-date/204046/31 "2003-09-27T21:59:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CrazyCatLady \* > \*\* > …when a woman uses the phrase talking in that context, it means that she’s not quite in a relationship with this other guy yet, but it’s heading that way and she doesn’t want to mess things up before they ever get started. In other words, she is not available at this time, but is open to doing friendly, non-date type things with other guys, provided it doesn’t upset the apple-cart with the guy she’s almost in a relationship with. > > All relationships have that weird limbo stage, where you’ve been out a few times and you’re not exclusive, but you’ve lost any real interest in dating other people. It’s unfair to hold being in that limbo state against someone, because it’s a stage all relationships go through.\*\* Hmmm, do they? What I’d like to know is if “you’ve lost any real interest in dating other people” although a declaration of mutual exclusivity hasn’t been agreed on, then why would you date someone other than your new boyfriend or girlfriend? I’ve been involved with my present boyfriend for 8 months now, and yes, we’re exclusive. But back when it had only been a month or two into the relationship, a woman from work wanted to fix me up with someone. Although my bf and I had at that point only seen each other a few times (it’s a long distance relationship) and we hadn’t yet made an official exclusivity commitment, I politely declined on the fix-up. I was nuts about my bf even then, even though I had no idea if or how it would work out (in some ways I still don’t!), but I truly had no interest in going out on a date with anyone else. I just don’t understand this mentality. If you like who you’re with, or want to cement a relationship with someone, why would you date others?! ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-a-girl-gives-me-the-speech-on-a-date/204046/32 "2003-09-27T22:07:01Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by lel_ > \*\*Why on earth would you think of asking a woman after a date if she had any single friends? I don’t know if I’m in some sort of fantasyland, but I usually assume that even if they are talking that there’s still interest in pursuing something beyond the merely physical. \*\* Okay… > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Jaade_ > **You can’t ask a girl you are ion a date with if she has any single friends she might want to hook you up with, that’s just wrong…** Uh-huh. Now let’s look at what **tclouie** said about this event: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by tclouie_ > \*\*-- until I asked her to go out dancing. Then I got “the speech”. Recently (she said) she had started “talking” with a guy she had had a crush on since adolescence. “And we were never boyfriend and girlfriend, and we’re NOT dating now, but we’re ‘talking’.” And (she said) she was free to meet male friends, and she doesn’t like possessive people, blah blah blah, but she can’t go out dancing because his feelings will be hurt… _\_ > > I asked her, “Do you have any single friends who might be willing to go dancing with me?” I immediately got the impression I had said something wrong.\*\* Okay, now we have: **tclouie** asks woman-friend out on a date. Woman just wants to be friends. Woman politely declines **tclouie** ’s invitation. **tclouie** is a little disappointed. **tclouie** asks his **FRIEND** if she has any single friends who might like to go dancing with him. **tclouie** does not ask said friend if she has any single friends who might like to be his “semen receptacle” (very charming, **CCL** :rolleyes: ). So, to recap, they have not been out on a date, and there is no mutual romantic interest between them. There was some one-sided romantic interest on **tclouie** ’s part, but that’s been kiboshed, and now they’re just friends. Is it wrong for a man to ask his female friend if she knows anyone who might like to _go out on a date with him?_ (again, not someone who might like to fuck him, someone who might like to _go dancing with him_). If they were dating, I’d say it was in poor taste. But, she has made clear that she didn’t want to date him, she only liked him as a friend. Great! **tclouie** has a friend! But even if she’s the best friend **tclouie** ever makes in his life _why should she be upset if he asks her to introduce him to some of her single friends?!?!?_ Shouldn’t she be flattered? You don’t ask someone to set you up if you don’t consider them a friend, or at least respect their judgement! I understand the thought process, though. If you don’t like men (and some women really, really don’t) then of course you’re going to interpret a request for a date as an invitation to be a guy’s “semen receptacle” (:rolleyes: again). Me, I’m giving **tclouie** the benefit of the doubt. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by CrazyCatLady_ > **She’s not trying to keep you on a shelf, whatever the hell that’s supposed to mean.** You honestly, really and truly don’t know what it means to be kept on the shelf by a potential dating partner? I’m stunned. I guess that’s why you don’t understand what **tclouie** is frustrated about. See, when someone keeps you on the shelf, that means that they know you’re attracted to them, but they’re seeing someone else, so they give you just enough encouragement to keep you waiting in the wings - that way they have you as a backup in case something goes wrong in their main relationship or as a tool to make the SO jealous should the need arise. Some people who do this even get mad if you show signs of interest in anyone else, because they don’t want to lose the security that comes with having you following them around like a puppy. The woman in **tclouie** ’s story may or may not be “keeping him on a shelf”, and there’s no way for us to know if she is or not. However, I submit that **tclouie** is in a much better position to make that judgement than either you or I are. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by CrazyCatLady_ > \*\*That’s why women don’t consider the “Let’s be friends” bit the heinous offense that men do. \*\* Yeah, God damn those men! They just don’t understand the value of friendship, all they want is a semen receptacle ( :rolleyes: one more time). Women _love_ to get the “let’s just be friends” bit. That’s why you see so many women running through the streets doing cartwheels, singing “Hooray! The guy I have a crush on wants to be friends! Oh happy day!” ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-a-girl-gives-me-the-speech-on-a-date/204046/33 "2003-09-27T22:33:55Z")
Isn’t the correct response to act irritated and say _“Geez, it’s not like I wanted to marry you, I just wanted to Fuck!”_? It’s not?😃 ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-a-girl-gives-me-the-speech-on-a-date/204046/34 "2003-09-27T23:47:36Z")
Okay, so what do you do when a fellow rolls over in bed, right in the middle of stuff, and tells you, “You know, I really like girls more”? [sub]yes, this happened.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-a-girl-gives-me-the-speech-on-a-date/204046/35 "2003-09-27T23:59:24Z")
:D. Even at _my_ age, I got “the speech” recently. here’s the way mine went: 1. “I want us to be _loving_ friends.” (meaning yeah, she’d go out with me and even sleep with me, but that’s it.) 2. “I don’t want to make a commitment.” (Cool. I don’t want to marry this person , but I have to be in love with someone before I make love to them, so I could kinda see that approaching… 3. “I want to take it slower” (Well, we’ve known each other 10 years. If I go any slower, the only way I’ll be able to get it up will be with rigor mortis). Q ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-a-girl-gives-me-the-speech-on-a-date/204046/36 "2003-09-27T23:59:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* > \*\*Okay, so what do you do when a fellow rolls over in bed, right in the middle of stuff, and tells you, “You know, I really like girls more”? > > [sub]yes, this happened.[/sub] \*\* Ask him, “A lot more or just a little more?” ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2003, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-a-girl-gives-me-the-speech-on-a-date/204046/37 "2003-09-28T00:04:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* > \*\*Okay, so what do you do when a fellow rolls over in bed, right in the middle of stuff, and tells you, “You know, I really like girls more”? > > [sub]yes, this happened.[/sub] \*\* Scream “Praise Jesus, you’re _cured_! Hallelujah!” and smack him in the forehead with the palm of your hand. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2003, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-a-girl-gives-me-the-speech-on-a-date/204046/38 "2003-09-28T00:09:52Z")
Oh, and then cock-punch him. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2003, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-a-girl-gives-me-the-speech-on-a-date/204046/39 "2003-09-28T00:14:58Z")
Oh, and then cock-punch him. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2003, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-a-girl-gives-me-the-speech-on-a-date/204046/40 "2003-09-28T00:17:38Z")
Cock punch, so it’s not a stiff drink ? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-a-girl-gives-me-the-speech-on-a-date/204046.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-a-girl-gives-me-the-speech-on-a-date/204046.md?page=3)