# I hate it when the wrong people try to do the right thing **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 18, 2004, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404 "2004-08-18T15:43:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/41 "2004-08-18T21:34:39Z")
Why so , **clairobscur**? I said it would have been a gut instinct, thereby rendering a rationale a moot point. I hope you understand that’s the point I was trying to make about not serving on this type of jury. If not, the closest I can come is to ask if you can look at a swastika and be totally ambivalent to any deep-seated reaction to it. If that doesn’t clear up at least this one point, I’ll just shoot myself. It may be less stressful. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/42 "2004-08-18T21:39:09Z")
Do the perverts family now get to beat the shit out of this lot and rape them with a whole bloody tree? ---
**Author:** ![InvidiousCourgette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47c2d/32.png) [@InvidiousCourgette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InvidiousCourgette)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/43 "2004-08-18T21:47:21Z")
> [@calm kiwi](#): > > Do the perverts family now get to beat the shit out of this lot and rape them with a whole bloody tree? I hope so. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/44 "2004-08-18T21:49:24Z")
I fear for the forests if this continues to escalate. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/45 "2004-08-18T21:52:26Z")
Well, Goodwin has been invoked. I guess this thread is complete. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/46 "2004-08-18T22:01:26Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > Well, Goodwin has been invoked. I guess this thread is complete. Huh? Where? BTW, it’s Godwin, I believe, not Goodwin. Unless you are whooshing me with some kind of joke I’m not getting. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/47 "2004-08-18T22:03:17Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Why so , **clairobscur**? I said it would have been a gut instinct, thereby rendering a rationale a moot point. But then, you could ponder the rationales. > [@](#): > > I hope you understand that’s the point I was trying to make about not serving on this type of jury. Yes. But what I have an issue with is that you’d be biased at the first place. > [@](#): > > If not, the closest I can come is to ask if you can look at a swastika and be totally ambivalent to any deep-seated reaction to it. I can understand gut reactions. But here we’re not talking about, say, a father who caught the lurker in the act, punched it in a fit of rage, and accidentally seriously wounded him when his head hit a stone. We’re talking about a bunch of people who beaten him senseless for long enough to have him lying in a pool of blood, and then came back later, probably thinking they hadn’t have enough fun and raped him with a branch. And the whole thing probably with a perfectly good conscience. It’s not a gut reaction, or a fit of rage. It’s a bunch of unashamed sadists. Would you want such people as friend. Besides, when some post mention an “ordinary” crime, say, precisely the rape of a child, every post you read is condemning the criminal. So, you feel somehow conforted, because you think “well…essentially everybody, like me, think it’s an awful crime”. But here, you find people defending or excusing the criminals. That’s pretty disturbing. So, you come to think : “I’m likely surrounded by people who think the same and who can turn into a hateful murderous mob at any time”. Once again, since you said you have a particular hatred for pedophilia, imagine a thread about a very young teen raped by say, her step father, and a third of the posters are finding excuses for the rapist “honestly, I can understand how someone would be tempted if he’s living in the same house as a pretty girl in her prime” “the article stated that the girl often walked scantily dressed around the house, anyway” “you know, men have urges they can’t always control. If I was to seat in the jury, I’d be biased and the step-father could walk free”. Wouldn’t you be disturbed by such statements? And, though you obviously don’t share that opinion, the crime we’re talking about is exactly as heinous as a violent rape. Actually, _it is_ a violent rape, amongst other things. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/48 "2004-08-18T22:03:39Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > Well, Goodwin has been invoked. I guess this thread is complete. It is only out of morbid curiosity I’m contunuing posting to this thread. But I gotta show my ignorance and ask about the Godwin reference. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/49 "2004-08-18T22:04:03Z")
I had to look for it, too. **duffer** mentioned the Nazi symbol. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/50 "2004-08-18T22:06:29Z")
Now that was an odd simulpost. I was replying to **blowero** but it works almost as well for **duffer**. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/51 "2004-08-18T22:09:58Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > But then, you could ponder the rationales. > > Yes. But what I have an issue with is that you’d be biased at the first place. Oh for Christ’s sake. Do you not understand that my bias is a “gut instinct”? _By default there is no fucking rationale for the feeling!!!_ When you explain the rationale behind your favorite color I’ll try to use that format. _It can’t be done!!_ Maybe substitute “gut instinct” with “gut reaction”. The only rationale, if you insist on one, would be that I loathe pedophiles. Never saw it as a character flaw till now, though. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/52 "2004-08-18T22:12:58Z")
> [@Jeff Olsen](#): > > Now that was an odd simulpost. I was replying to **blowero** but it works almost as well for **duffer**. I’m not kidding, and I see myself as a fairly avid student of WWII. What am I missing in the Godwin reference? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/53 "2004-08-18T22:20:46Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > It is only out of morbid curiosity I’m contunuing posting to this thread. But I gotta show my ignorance and ask about the Godwin reference. 😕 In case you are asking this, here is the FAQ for [Godwin’s Law](http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/legends/godwin/) ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Means\_Go](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cc9497/32.png) [@Green\_Means\_Go](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Means_Go)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/54 "2004-08-18T22:28:28Z")
> [@](#): > > **blowero:** I’m sorry, on what evidence do you base that assertion? And how exactly does the fact that he gets off on fully clothed children make it more likely that he’d commit rape? Research does tend to show that in many cases voyerism is a step along the path to becoming a serial rapist. For a cite, check out any of the books by John Douglas concerning his time with the FBI serial crime unit. They found in many, many instances (of course not all) that when they backtracked through a serial rapists criminal history after they caught him, that there would be arrests for voyerism of this type before they escalated to more brutal assualts. At first, simply peering into the window would be enough. Then, after a time, it wouldn’t be. I’m not saying that all voyers become rapists, but I **AM** saying that there is more than a casual link between the two. Does that make beating the crap out of him and trying to graft a tree to his rectum right? No. As a passionate person, I can feel the desire for street justice in this case. But, as a thinking person, I know that leads down a dark road no society wants to travel on. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/55 "2004-08-18T22:34:38Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > In case you are asking this, here is the FAQ for [Godwin’s Law](http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/legends/godwin/) Thanks for the info. I’d seen the name mentioned before but never knew what it meant. FWIW, that was in no way my intention to the post that was mentioned with this. I’ll be more selective in my words when it comes to that subject. Sorry if it came across as an example of that. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/56 "2004-08-18T22:35:27Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > Those people are going to get so fucking put away it’s not even funny. It’s bad enough that they beat and raped his ass, but they attempted to hide evidence, AND colluded for an hour about how best to handle the situation before whooping his ass. Talk about 1st degree ANYTHING! > > I’m sure the DA is happy. > > Sam I’m betting wrist slap. The victim was a pedo. If the DA leans on them, next election cycle he’ll have an opponent saying, “This is the guy who you want defending you? The guy who goes after people defending themselves from a pedo, instead of the pedo?” Slam dunk. ---
**Author:** ![Dan\_Norder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@Dan\_Norder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dan_Norder)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/57 "2004-08-18T22:46:45Z")
The news item was more the wrong people trying to do the totally wrong thing… > [@Khiadra](#): > > The guy is masturbating at the sight of a sleeping child. > > Presumably a fully clothed and covered in blankets sleeping child. We’re not talking about a kid who’s dressed in…heck, I don’t know… whatever perverts find sexy on kids. The girl is in bed, so presumably just her face and a bit of hair on a pillow is what’s showing. > > And he’s getting off on that. Are you seriously suggesting that abduction and rape of a child aren’t a part of the future scenario with this guy? Most masturbators (even peeping tom ones) don’t turn into abductors and rapists. Why are you assuming this one would? Hell, if I remember the studies I read about correctly, people toms are some of the least likely characters to escalate into rape and kidnapping. But the point is, you can’t just assume some huge crime in the future based upon a lesser one. I can see running him off so forcefully he is afraid to try anything like that again, or restraining him (violently, if necessary) so he doesn’t get away, but leaving permanent damage, rape, and so forth is completely out of line. (And I think the “presumably fully clothed and covered in blankets” thing is also fairly unsupported. It’s summer so less likely to be wearing mauch or using blankets, the mother is a stripper so possibly a lot more liberal about what the kid wears, etc. etc., not that it makes that much difference in the right or wrong of what happened.) Oh, and, **duffer** , you’re posts on this thread have been ridiculous. Calling people you disagree with supporters of pedophilia and bringing Hitler into it just shows you know you have nothing to support your side so have to resort to scummy debating tricks. And the woe-is-me persecuted white man schtick is also pretty pathetic. Get your head out of your ass. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/58 "2004-08-18T22:50:22Z")
> [@Dan Norder](#): > > Oh, and, **duffer** , you’re posts on this thread have been ridiculous. Calling people you disagree with supporters of pedophilia and bringing Hitler into it just shows you know you have nothing to support your side so have to resort to scummy debating tricks. And the woe-is-me persecuted white man schtick is also pretty pathetic. Get your head out of your ass. Well, I guess you really told me. I feel bad. I may be permanantly scarred by your harsh, but true words. Man, am I a piece of shit, or what? Oh well, off to kick a puppy to feel better. Thanks for the encouraging words! ---
**Author:** ![Dan\_Norder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@Dan\_Norder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dan_Norder)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/59 "2004-08-18T22:53:13Z")
> [@LastCall](#): > > Research does tend to show that in many cases voyerism is a step along the path to becoming a serial rapist. For a cite, check out any of the books by John Douglas concerning his time with the FBI serial crime unit. They found in many, many instances (of course not all) that when they backtracked through a serial rapists criminal history after they caught him, that there would be arrests for voyerism of this type before they escalated to more brutal assualts. I’m sorry, but you’re making an incorrect statistical conclusion here. Backtracking from known serious offenders and finding high incidences of a trait in no way shows that that trait leads to serious offenses. You’d have to study voyeurs in general before you could make a conclusion. That’s the same shoddy thinking that makes some people claim that pornography leads to rape and violence, or that flourinated drinking water leads to rape and violence as far as that goes. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@The\_Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tim)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/60 "2004-08-18T22:56:29Z")
A general statistical point: If you grab from group X and find that they all did action Y this doesn’t tell you that those that perform action Y automatically become members of group X. As for the case they went way overboard. I can understand people feeling that they couldn’t be objective on the jury, on either side. The whole thing is creepy, fucked up, and very emotionally charged. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404.md?page=4)