# I hate it when the wrong people try to do the right thing **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 18, 2004, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404 "2004-08-18T15:43:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/81 "2004-08-19T05:02:04Z")
Abbie said “Rational Abbie on,” but I don’t think the program started up. > [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > This was people perceiving a threat to someone else and reacting. Yeah. And long after he was obviously not a threat anymore, they kept beating the shit out of him. Then they left, came back, discussed killing him and what they would do with the body, raped him with a tree branch, and got caught by the cops. They went over the top a lot sooner than you’re saying they did. Here’s my idea: I guess they’re still heroes if Russo doesn’t die, so when they get out of jail, throw a parade for them. You can be the grand marshall. But, uh, don’t let them get anywhere near the baton. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/82 "2004-08-19T05:15:33Z")
Allow me to suggest an alternate theory: Russo is not well liked in the neighborhood. Perhaps he has been accused of breaking into his neighbors apartments and stealing. Maybe the folks at this apartment have weed in the house. Perhaps they have had weed stolen from them before. During the night, Phipps walks out to his car and sees Russo (who may be peeping, or may be preparing to break in and steal). He and his buddies decide to teach this ass a lesson he’ll never forget. They beat him badly, and rape him with freakin’ tree branch. Russo may well die. _Oh shit!!!_ They’ve gone too far! Then they remember the cameras. They try to disable one of them. Doesn’t work out quite as well as they had hoped. Go to plan B. Accuse Russo of something heinous! Yeah! He wasn’t breaking in…he was…looking at the 5 year old! Yeah! And masturbating! He was a pedophile! yeah! Russo may die, so he may not be able to say any different! Given the _facts_ we have, is my theory any less plausible than the one offered by the rapists? ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/83 "2004-08-19T08:08:27Z")
> [@LastCall](#): > > Research does tend to show that in many cases voyerism is a step along the path to becoming a serial rapist. For a cite, check out any of the books by John Douglas concerning his time with the FBI serial crime unit. They found in many, many instances (of course not all) that when they backtracked through a serial rapists criminal history after they caught him, that there would be arrests for voyerism of this type before they escalated to more brutal assualts. At first, simply peering into the window would be enough. Then, after a time, it wouldn’t be. Uh, you _do_ realize the flaw in that reasoning don’t you? “Most rapists were voyeurs” is not equivalent to “Most voyeurs will become rapists”. The same logical flaw is used with regard to pornography. It’s often noted that rapists are found to have pornography, and wrongly concluded that pornography leads to rape. They’re confusing a _causal_ connection with a _synchronous_ connection. Here’s an example of the fallacy: “All lawyers went to college, therefore all people who go to college will become lawyers.” ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/84 "2004-08-19T09:59:16Z")
Or, as I heard it…“Most rapists ate lunch the day their crime was committed; therefore, eating lunch causes people to commit rape.” ---
**Author:** ![InvidiousCourgette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47c2d/32.png) [@InvidiousCourgette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InvidiousCourgette)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/85 "2004-08-19T10:01:28Z")
How far do you want to go down the “if person X does action Y, therefore in the future he might commit crime Z” route? One of the assailants was a 15 year old child. She was the girlfriend of one of the adults, age 19. I suggest that adult has already crossed the boundary of what is acceptable with children, and may progress further down that route. It would not, however, be acceptable to beat him to a pulp for an hour and shove a branch up his ass, based on my or anybody else’s expectation of how far he might travel down that route. This story is abhorrent. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/86 "2004-08-19T10:04:53Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Or, as I heard it…“Most rapists ate lunch the day their crime was committed; therefore, eating lunch causes people to commit rape.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/87 "2004-08-19T15:05:45Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > Allow me to suggest an alternate theory: > > Russo is not well liked in the neighborhood. Perhaps he has been accused of breaking into his neighbors apartments and stealing. Maybe the folks at this apartment have weed in the house. Perhaps they have had weed stolen from them before. I think you’re on to something. > [@](#): > > [Lorain Morning Journal](http://www.morningjournal.com/site/news.cfm?BRD=1699&dept_id=46371&newsid=12729279&PAG=461&rfi=9) > Russo has a minor criminal history, but nothing related to sex offenses or involving children, Loeding said. BTW: sounds like Russo’s life is no longer in danger. [NewsChannel 5 reports that he’s been upgraded to fair condition](http://www.newsnet5.com/news/3664767/detail.html). ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/88 "2004-08-19T15:34:52Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > As far as I can tell, the only evidence we have that Russo was masturbating is the word of a man facing a long time in a jail cell. Do I have that right, at least? Well, **Jeff Olsen** ’s link gives further support to this suggestion: > [@](#): > > The six suspects claim that Russo was caught peeking into the bedroom of a young girl who may be Umstott’s daughter, and masturbating, Loeding said. > > But all police know for certain is that he was found badly beaten with his pants around his ankles after a resident called police at about 5:30 a.m. Saturday, Loeding said. So, either the security camera didn’t show the alleged masturbating, or the police are playing their cards close to their chest. Doesn’t look good for the six barbarians. ---
**Author:** ![Ennui](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ennui/32/3396_2.png) [@Ennui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ennui)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/89 "2004-08-19T16:24:26Z")
Looking even worse for the barbarians, the [Smoking Gun](http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0818042nroyalton2.html) has a page from the police report. Not only does it seem that the sodomy may have accured up to an hour after the initial beating but at least one of the principles in the beating lied to the police about his name. These people were acting far too guilty to claim that even they believed they had done the right thing. ---
**Author:** ![Erroneous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71c47a/32.png) [@Erroneous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erroneous)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/90 "2004-08-25T13:56:59Z")
[Here’s a bit of an update.](http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1093347022303690.xml) Some exerpts: > [@](#): > > Police now say the video captured the attack on Russo but does not show him masturbating outside the window. It shows Russo standing outside the brick Bunker Ridge apartment building about 50 feet from the one he lives in, looking at a window, then stepping behind a giant bush. > [@](#): > > Detective Dave Loeding, public-information officer for North Royalton, also said the video does not show what the suspects alleged. “You can see him go to the window for an extended period of time, which is abnormal, but it does not show what these people are saying,” Loeding said. “Let’s keep in mind, **this idea of masturbation and all that comes from the assailants themselves**.” > [@](#): > > On Aug. 6, Russo had a seizure that landed him in the hospital for four days, hospital records show. North Royalton police had found him wandering along Ridge Road and called an ambulance. > > That’s what Russo does during a seizure, Lewis said. He wanders. He blanks out, forgets who he is, forgets where he is. He gets wobbly, gazes off, zones out and makes no sense. > [@](#): > > [After the beating] Lewis said she went up to their third-floor apartment to get a photo of him. That’s when she noticed his coffee mug filled, his deck shoes parked on the floor. Russo never went anywhere without those shoes. Not to do laundry, not to go have a smoke, not to visit a neighbor across the hall. > > She figured he must have had one of his seizures and wandered off. > [@](#): > > North Royalton police say Russo has never been charged with a sex crime. And the good news: > [@](#): > > The following face charges of attempted murder, rape and felonious assault: Khalid Arafat, 34, of Cleveland; Stacy Umstott, 28, of North Royalton; Nicholas Phipps, 21, of Cleveland; Athena Lemieux, 20, of Elyria; and Brandon Breeden, 19, of Elyria. Authorities said they are considering charges against a 15-year-old Mentor girl who was with the five during the beating. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/91 "2004-08-25T14:37:14Z")
This has the makings of a L&O crossover episode. Start out in SVU and wrap things up in the homicide unit. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/92 "2004-08-25T15:28:44Z")
Thanks for the update, **Erroneous**. I had been meaning to keep tabs on this story. Another quote from Russo’s girlfriend: > [@](#): > > He has a metal plate in his head and takes a pharmacy of prescriptions just to function. So it looks at the moment like we’ve got some poor bastard with mental health problems resulting from previous head trauma, and he has a seizure and goes for a wander, and gets beaten senseless by a bunch of fucking lunatics. Hope they put the lot of them away for a very long time. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/93 "2004-08-25T18:00:48Z")
Any of the “he deserved it” crowd starting to see why vigilanteeism is wrong yet? I sure hope so. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2004, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/94 "2004-08-30T15:20:37Z")
[5 plead not guilty in vicious beating](http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1093599231164581.xml). On what grounds? You morons were caught on tape! ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2004, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404/95 "2004-08-30T16:22:37Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > Any of the “he deserved it” crowd starting to see why vigilanteeism is wrong yet? I sure hope so. My thoughts exactly. From Jeff Olsen’s link: > [@](#): > > Umstott (the child’s mother) was convicted last year of assault. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-it-when-the-wrong-people-try-to-do-the-right-thing/260404.md?page=4)