# I hate people joking about rape **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 27, 2006, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-people-joking-about-rape/381913 "2006-11-27T06:04:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2006, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-people-joking-about-rape/381913/121 "2006-12-01T23:11:52Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] “Survivor” is always how I thought of the ex-gf I mentioned earlier. It was an acknowledgement that being raped hadn’t ruined her life. My feeling is that a survivor is something you become when you stop being a victim. [/QUOTE] Does not enjoying rape jokes make one a victim? What about not favoring the use of the word “rape” colloquially to mean consensual sex? I’m not trying to give you a hard time, Marley23, nor implying that you said any of these things. I’m just trying to suss this out. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2006, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-people-joking-about-rape/381913/122 "2006-12-01T23:40:11Z")
> [@](#): > > **Dangerosa** said: > I think its a mistake to approve of people - in particularly young men - making rape a dismissive word, or a word that means two people are having a good time. Young men - from what I’ve been able to make out talking to them - often have an attitude towards sex to start with - they want it all the time and can’t imagine turning it down - particularly when they are attracted to someone, they have a hard time not projecting these same feelings onto their dates, and that can create a dangerous situation (though my rapist was 50 and still had the same attitude - some people just don’t grow up). I don’t know what you’re getting at here, beyond a sexist generalization not much better than ‘all men are rapists and that’s all they are.’ And if you think young men just ‘want it all the time and can’t imagine turning it down’, that’s just a sexist stereotype that is no more true than the idea that women **dont** want it all the time. > [@](#): > > The way to make women more resiliant to rape is not to make rape a casual fact of life or make it acceptable, but to make it a event that they should not blame themselves for and for which recovery is possible. Nobody’s making rape a casual fact of life. Some of us are talking about using the word rape, among friends who understand the context and the meaning intended, to describe certain types of sex. > [@](#): > > **Aangelica** said: > catsix has a point, but I believe just as strongly that trivializing the experience by tolerating and encouraging dismissive use of the word (or using it to clearly indicate enjoyable and consensual sex) is just as poor a situation to encourage as the “you’ll never be whole again” school o’ rape survivor counselling. Was I saying that it should replace counseling? > [@](#): > > There are a great many other words that can be used to describe the sort of sex catsix uses rape to describe, many of which have no literal definition applicable to sexual congress. And I always use perfect grammar and syntax in casual conversation with friends. How dare anyone use any word outside its dictionary meaning! I said that no other words I can think of express it so _succinctly_. When I want one word that I can say to a friend about it and have them understand exactly what I mean, for some experiences, that’s the right one. Those invited into the conversation are not those who I don’t know well enough to know exactly what image I’m putting in their head. That means pretty much anyone who’s offended by hearing me say that out loud was _not invited to the conversation in the first place_. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-people-joking-about-rape/381913/123 "2006-12-02T00:09:23Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] Those invited into the conversation are not those who I don’t know well enough to know exactly what image I’m putting in their head. That means pretty much anyone who’s offended by hearing me say that out loud was _not invited to the conversation in the first place_. [/QUOTE] Is this an admission that you do not use the word “rape” this way in mixed company? Why not, if it’s perfectly OK? ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-people-joking-about-rape/381913/124 "2006-12-02T00:11:47Z")
> [@](#): > > **Rubystreak** said: > Is this an admission that you do not use the word “rape” this way in mixed company? Why not, if it’s perfectly OK? Define ‘mixed company’. It’s a common feature in conversations with my friends, regardless of where those conversations happen. That doesn’t mean that other people are invited to open their yap and butt in. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-people-joking-about-rape/381913/125 "2006-12-02T00:32:27Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] Define ‘mixed company’. [/quote] Anyone who might disagree with you. > [@](#): > > It’s a common feature in conversations with my friends, regardless of where those conversations happen. Common feature? Fucked up. Are you fifteen? ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-people-joking-about-rape/381913/126 "2006-12-02T00:37:41Z")
> [@](#): > > **Rubystreak** said: > Anyone who might disagree with you. The only people _I_ ever hear using the phrase ‘mixed company’ are old farts who think this is till the white-glove and fainting-couch era in which fragile little ladies must be sheltered by their overlord protector gentlemen. > [@](#): > > Common feature? Fucked up. Are you fifteen? No. Are you still living in the 1940s? ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-people-joking-about-rape/381913/127 "2006-12-02T00:41:50Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] The only people _I_ ever hear using the phrase ‘mixed company’ are old farts who think this is till the white-glove and fainting-couch era in which fragile little ladies must be sheltered by their overlord protector gentlemen. [/quote] This is your best comeback? I guess I can understand that, considering your rather juvenile sense of humor and the fact that you’re intellectually incapable of using a better word than rape to describe fucking. It’s kind of sad, though. You’ve really got a chip on your shoulder. I don’t think you’re as OK with all this as you say you are. It’s showing. I think I’ve said enough. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-people-joking-about-rape/381913/128 "2006-12-02T00:48:10Z")
> [@](#): > > **Rubystreak** said: > This is your best comeback? I guess I can understand that, considering your rather juvenile sense of humor and the fact that you’re intellectually incapable of using a better word than rape to describe fucking. It’s kind of sad, though. You’ve really got a chip on your shoulder. I don’t think you’re as OK with all this as you say you are. It’s showing. I think I’ve said enough. I’ve put up with you calling me an idiot and a liar in your subtle-as-a-brick-to-the-skull comments for three pages, and now I’m firing back. You don’t like that, so you’re going to claim it’s ‘sad’ and pretend you weren’t calling me a moron and a liar and that I have deep seated mental problems manifesting on my clavicle. Then in the same breath you continue to say I’m lying. You’re a joke. Unfortunately, not a very funny one. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-people-joking-about-rape/381913/129 "2006-12-02T00:55:28Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] I’ve put up with you calling me an idiot and a liar in your subtle-as-a-brick-to-the-skull comments for three pages, and now I’m firing back. [/quote] Knock yourself out. > [@](#): > > You don’t like that, so you’re going to claim it’s ‘sad’ and pretend you weren’t calling me a moron and a liar and that I have deep seated mental problems manifesting on my clavicle. It’s sad that you are so dismissive about rape-- anybody’s rape, claiming that you’re entitled to do so because you were raped. You exhibit utter insensitivity towards others’ suffering, unrepentantly. But you’re OK. Right. That’s sad. > [@](#): > > Then in the same breath you continue to say I’m lying. No, I’ve admitted that you might well be intellectually incapable of coming up with a better words than rape. You keep insisting that you are, so OK, fine, have it your way. Though I think it’s actually the chip on your shoulder causing you to be so wrongheadedly stubborn about this, so yeah, I think you’re lying. All you can do is ridicule my age. Sad. > [@](#): > > You’re a joke. Unfortunately, not a very funny one. I’m not trying to make you laugh. I’m trying to make you think. You’re right about the fact that rape is not the end of a person’s life and need not ruin sex and romantic love for them forever. You are not right that you are allowed to trivialize it, deride others’ pain, and deny the existence of other words for fucking. Ever consider that YOU might have a real problem if you think of wild sex as rape? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-people-joking-about-rape/381913/130 "2006-12-02T01:12:30Z")
I just have to say, threads like this remind me of why **Catsix** is one of my favorite posters. I definitely don’t always agree with her, but she sure seems like a heck of a lot of fun to go have a beer with. On a note related to the OP of this thread, I had never heard a ‘rape joke’ until yesterday, and I have to admit that it was, well, _funny._ As told by a woman: Q: What’s black and blue and hates sex? A: The boy in my trunk. Now… maybe that type of humor isn’t for everybody, and maybe some guys who had been raped would have an emotional reaction to it. But damn me if I can help chuckling. Certainly humor like that, (really dark twisted humor) isn’t verboten in all situations… but it might not be a great idea to tell a joke like that on the NYC subway. Then again, not everybody liked the movie _Fight Club_, either. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-people-joking-about-rape/381913/131 "2006-12-02T01:12:52Z")
> [@](#): > > **Rubystreak** said: > It’s sad that you are so dismissive about rape-- anybody’s rape, claiming that you’re entitled to do so because you were raped. You exhibit utter insensitivity towards others’ suffering, unrepentantly. But you’re OK. Right. That’s sad. What’s sad is that although you’re functionally literate enough to type in English, you don’t understand a god damn thing I’ve said in three pages. Where was I dismissive about rape and claiming I’m entitled to be so? > [@](#): > > No, I’ve admitted that you might well be intellectually incapable of coming up with a better words than rape. You keep insisting that you are, so OK, fine, have it your way. Though I think it’s actually the chip on your shoulder causing you to be so wrongheadedly stubborn about this, so yeah, I think you’re lying. All you can do is ridicule my age. Sad. You opened this line of fire a long while before I said anything about your age, so I don’t know where the fuck you get off acting all high and mighty. You’re bitching and whining that I made an insulting remark about your age, when all you’ve done so far is attempt to insult me by saying ‘You’re stupid or you’re a liar or you’re mentally defective.’ Yeah you have so much room to talk. > [@](#): > > I’m not trying to make you laugh. I’m trying to make you think. The only thing you’ve made me think is that you’re a hypocrite who lacks basic reading comprehension. > [@](#): > > ou’re right about the fact that rape is not the end of a person’s life and need not ruin sex and romantic love for them forever. I don’t need you to tell me I’m right about that. > [@](#): > > You are not right that you are allowed to trivialize it, deride others’ pain, and deny the existence of other words for fucking. I never did ‘deride’ anyone’s pain. I’ve said specifically that it’s real, and that it’s added to by people who encourage festering in victimhood for years on end. I never denied there were other words for fucking. Some of them I’ve considered downright hilarious, and some not nearly specific enough. Sometimes another word will do, and sometimes it won’t. You’ve mischaracterized that from the first response you gave me, which was the exact same time you started acting insulting (I mean damn, if you want to call me a troll, come out with it.) and refusing to respond to what was actually said. > [@](#): > > Ever consider that YOU might have a real problem if you think of wild sex as rape? Well, Dr. Phil, you’re certainly good at attributing opinions to me that don’t exist. I use a word in such a context and manner such that it does not retain its dictionary definition but in fact has a completely separate connotation and you think that I don’t know the difference between sex and dictionary-rape? I think you need to start reading for comprehension. Oh but wait, didn’t you say you’d already said enough? I guess that wasn’t true! Damn, and if you hadn’t called me a liar it wouldn’t be just one more example of your hypocrisy. Now if you don’t mind, I’d like to get back to discussing things with the rest of the people in this thread who actually made salient points instead of implying that I’m a fucked-up head-case teenage troll! ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-people-joking-about-rape/381913/132 "2006-12-02T01:50:17Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] Where was I dismissive about rape and claiming I’m entitled to be so? [/quote] Using rape to describe consensual sex, when rape already has an active meaning which describes hurting people, is dismissive. Saying you’d joke about rape in front of someone you knew was hurting about it is dismissive. Then saying you wouldn’t apologize even if that person expressed hurt makes you sound as if you think you’re entitled. > [@](#): > > You opened this line of fire a long while before I said anything about your age, so I don’t know where the fuck you get off acting all high and mighty. You’re bitching and whining that I made an insulting remark about your age, I’m not whining about it. I’m saying it’s a sad line of defense for your use of the word rape-- I’m an old lady, you’re hip and cool, so it’s OK. Bitch, please. > [@](#): > > when all you’ve done so far is attempt to insult me by saying ‘You’re stupid or you’re a liar or you’re mentally defective.’ You haven’t understood a word I’ve said in three goddamn pages either, if that’s all you’ve gotten out of it. You asked me if I was calling you a liar. I’m not going to dance around it-- I think you’re being dishonest in adhering to a point you can’t back up. I’m not the only one who thinks you’re being stubborn here. I don’t get why. > [@](#): > > The only thing you’ve made me think is that you’re a hypocrite who lacks basic reading comprehension. Where have I been hypocritical, exactly? > [@](#): > > I never denied there were other words for fucking. Some of them I’ve considered downright hilarious, and some not nearly specific enough. Not specific enough? Since when is specificity in language your priority? > [@](#): > > (I mean damn, if you want to call me a troll, come out with it.) and refusing to respond to what was actually said. I don’t think you’re a troll. I think you’ve made some good points, but your attitude in this whole thread baffles me. Rape is a loaded word. You’re insisting on its usage in a way that trivializes it and implies it’s something pleasurable. I think that’s a demented and I’m not going to mince words with you about that. Maybe I’m not understanding you correctly, as you say. If so, set me straight, as I’m not the only one here who sees your line of argument this way. > [@](#): > > Well, Dr. Phil, :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > you’re certainly good at attributing opinions to me that don’t exist. I use a word in such a context and manner such that it does not retain its dictionary definition but in fact has a completely separate connotation and you think that I don’t know the difference between sex and dictionary-rape? I think you need to start reading for comprehension. I guess if everyone in your context thinks this is OK, then it’s not a problem. But you’ve gone on to say that if you said it in front of someone wasn’t OK with it, you wouldn’t apologize or feel bad. That’s where it gets fucked up, to me. > [@](#): > > Oh but wait, didn’t you say you’d already said enough? I guess that wasn’t true! Damn, and if you hadn’t called me a liar it wouldn’t be just one more example of your hypocrisy. I felt I’d said enough about my opinions of your motivations. I still have those opinions, not going to elaborate further because I don’t know you and don’t really care about your mental problems. And I’m probably not going to get through to you because I’m already too disgusted to communicate with your productively, which is why maybe I have said enough. Probably not, though. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-people-joking-about-rape/381913/133 "2006-12-02T03:16:51Z")
[QUOTE=Aangelica] **catsix** has a point, but I believe just as strongly that trivializing the experience by tolerating and encouraging dismissive use of the word (or using it to clearly indicate enjoyable and consensual sex) is just as poor a situation to encourage as the “you’ll never be whole again” school o’ rape survivor counselling. To be blunt, using rape the way catsix is advocating is _confusing_. “Rape” has a specific definition applicable to sexual congress. Using it to apply to sexual acts other than the ones covered by its literal definition is just confusing - and in my personal opinion, confusing in a way that doesn’t lead anywhere good or helpful. There are a great many other words that can be used to describe the sort of sex **catsix** uses rape to describe, many of which have no literal definition applicable to sexual congress. Her contention that she can’t think of any is, again in my opinion, just stubbornness. [/QUOTE] The closest I’ve ever seen to this is the word “molest”. I’ve seen and even used it in that way, as in, “Damn, he’s so sexy I’d like to throw him down and molest him until neither of us can walk.” But I don’t think I’ve ever seen the word “rape” used that way. ---
**Author:** ![cactus\_waltz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@cactus\_waltz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cactus_waltz)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-people-joking-about-rape/381913/134 "2006-12-02T19:27:34Z")
[QUOTE=Rubystreak] You’re insisting on its usage in a way that trivializes it and implies it’s something pleasurable. [/quote] Right, withinin her own set of friends who seem to have a very group-defined lingo. Which is different from making it common usage. > [@](#): > > I guess if everyone in your context thinks this is OK, then it’s not a problem. But you’ve gone on to say that if you said it in front of someone wasn’t OK with it, you wouldn’t apologize or feel bad. That’s where it gets fucked up, to me. That to me is more a matter of common courtesy. If catsix doesn’t want to apologize to strangers who take offense by the way she speaks to her friends, then I guess she (I’m assuming catsix is female, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong) won’t have a problem if that stranger think that she’s hostile. But I think that is a seperate matter from what this thread is really about. > [@catsix](#): > > I’ll continue to hope that it is used that way and that it changes the general perception of rape away from ‘fate worse than death.’ Which is where our opinions differ. I agree that rape victims shouldn’t be stigmatized in the way that they are today. And implying that rape can’t possibly be coped with and is a fate worse than death… Well, that doesn’t do any good to anybody. But there are several ways to work with this. One way is for professional social workers, doctors, therapists, psychologists, etc. to treat rape victims/survivors with a positive attitude and not just see them as people with no possible way to cope. But making rape a trivial word belittles the ones who really have had disastrous experiences with it, something we should be careful not to do. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-people-joking-about-rape/381913/135 "2006-12-02T20:14:28Z")
[QUOTE=Rubystreak] Does not enjoying rape jokes make one a victim? What about not favoring the use of the word “rape” colloquially to mean consensual sex? I’m not trying to give you a hard time, Marley23, nor implying that you said any of these things. I’m just trying to suss this out. [/QUOTE] I thought of her as a non-victim because of her attitude toward life. Those things are trifles. You could read something into them if you wanted, but I don’t think they mean anything. Rape-as-casual-sex probably bothers me more than it bothers her. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-people-joking-about-rape/381913.md?page=6)