# I Hate The Homeless **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 21, 2008, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848 "2008-10-21T02:37:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/141 "2008-10-22T19:14:32Z")
I’m thinking that maybe we should give up on the idea that EVERYONE can be rehabbed/socialized/cured to the level of being able to live a decent life on their own. Some people simpy ARE too ‘broken’ to fix into contributing citizens, at least with our current level of psychopharmacy/psychology/whatever. (I think that the people who say many drug addicts and alcholics actually have mental illnesses, and the drugs/alcohol served to treat at least some symptoms at the begining of the abuse are right.) Anyway. If we admit that we cannot help a certain portion of the ‘chronically’ homeless, what should we do to A) let them live in at least bottom-level humane conditions and B) do it cheaply enough that society won’t refuse to foot the bill and C) keep them from being an on-going irritant to the rest of society? I keep coming back to the idea of some sort of humane ‘warehousing’ facilities, set out somewhere outside of cities or even towns. The government owns a whole bunch of land in places like Nevada and New Mexico that isn’t being used for anything else, and I’m sure in other states, too. The Camps, or whatever you’d like to call them, would mainly be dormitory buildings with single rooms, likely the size of prison cells, but not with those barred walls and doors. The furniture being really basic and indestructable like, oh, molded in concrete ledges that serve as a bench to sit on and bed (supporting read mattress pads & bedding of course.) A communal bathroom for every X rooms. There’d be other buildings for other purposes: ``` A mess hall. A social hall where residents can gather and talk or play cards or whatever. A laundry where the residents can turn in their soiled outfits and bedding and be provided with a clean set. (Some standardized outfit, like jeans and tshirts) Several large auditorium type rooms with televisions playing continually, perhaps each one tuned continuously to a certain channel so no arguments over what will be watched.. A health clinic for ordinary level medical stuff. Some counselling/rehab services, offered but not forced upon anyone, for those who have enough gumption to want to improve their status. ``` Most controversial, I’d say go ahead and not just allow drinking and drugs but actually supply them to those who ask. Like, maybe, marijuana and heroin injections. These would be available on demand except I’d add some conditions like your room has to be adequately clean AND you have to take a shower before you get your hit of whatever, just using it as a bone to improve the level of hygiene. Yes, I understand that some portion of the residents will drink or overdose themselves to death in these circumstances. Well, so do many of this category of homelss right now, combined with deaths from hypothermia, being hit by car, falling victims to crime, etc. This should at least cut way down on the other causes of deaths AND prevent crimes caused by homeless trying to support their habits. Anyway, though the camps should be far enough away from towns to not have them impacting surrounding neighborhoods, they wouldn’t be prisons. No guards at the gates and at least once daily bus service to/from them. Maybe some deal like you only get one free bus trip a month to avoid commuting. Getting into these camps could be as simple as going to a police station or bus station and asking: free one-way transit to the closest camp, reimbursed by the government. Judges could offer offenders of the usual streetless homeless type nuisance/crimes level the option of going to one of these camps vs. going to jail. Anyway, I think a setup like that would be seen as better than scrabbling on the streets for the drunk/drugged/mentally ill type homeless, would be cheaper than the patchwork of services we offer now, and cutway down on the ‘nuisances’ they inflict due to their street-living. I also don’t think the set up would be so attractive as to draw ‘normal’ people in, which might be a fear. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/142 "2008-10-22T19:31:36Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > You know what? This is crap. It’s not true. > > It’s not like if you lose your job you’re out on the streets giving blowjobs in portapotties tomorrow. Because it’s possible to, you know, save money. It’s possible to recieve–get this–unemployment insurance. It’s possible to get food stamps, rent assistance, disability, energy assistance, free food, medical assistance, job training. There are shelters and soup kitchens and missions. There are churches and government programs everywhere. > > There are literally dozens of programs that will keep you from living in a portapotty. > > It’s not like that piss-stained homeless guy begging for change on the street corner had a job last month until some greedy capitalist fired him, and now he’s permanently screwed. People who lose their jobs can get another job. The reason that guy is begging for change is because he’s screwed up in some way, probably multiple ways. Giving him a job isn’t going to work, because this guy is fucked up and he wouldn’t be able to handle a job, even the simplest one. Even the simplest job requires you to show up on time every day, not stink, not scream randomly, and at least go through the motions. > > There are plenty of people who are unable to do even this. They aren’t homeless because of capitalist greed, they’re homeless because they’ve got so many problems they can’t keep even a minimum wage job. Threatening these people with jail unless they clean up their act isn’t going to work, it just means these guys are going to be in jail instead of on the streets. It would be cheaper by far to open a fleabag style hotel and give homeless guys free rooms than to jail them. It’s not like all they need is a good kick in the ass and then they’ll straighten up, for crying out loud. You don’t think living on the streets doesn’t provide multiple kicks in the ass every day? Amen. One thing I haven’t seen the capitalism-blamers in this thread mention (though I admit I sometimes start skimming a bit when a thread gets this long) is that a healthy adult naturally builds a support network of friends and family throughout his or her life that can help in hard times. If my wife and I were fired by greedy capitalists tomorrow and somehow kept out of work by oppressive pigdogs it would a long, long time before we were begging on the streets. We could live off savings for several months, then sell possessions, then stay in our house at least 4 to 6 more months without paying the mortgage, then stay with family and friends pretty much indefinitely. Again, this is assuming we didn’t even have the option of working. ---
**Author:** ![PotLuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbce88/32.png) [@PotLuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PotLuck)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/143 "2008-10-22T19:32:50Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Oh, and don’t EVER believe anybody in a city who tells you they can’t get enough to eat, because that is bullshit. There are enough soup kitchens and food banks in every city I’ve ever been in that anybody willing to take the charity is not going hungry. Unfortunately, you can’t get a fifth of whiskey at First Baptist’s free lunch. It took several rejected offers to buy meals for allegedly hungry people for me to figure this out; this is precisely why I never (okay, _rarely_) hand out cash. I’ve donated to and volunteered at enough shelters and soup kitchens in downtown Toronto to know that a free hot meal is usually a few blocks in any direction. When I asked one panhandler why he wouldn’t accept my offer to buy him lunch he retorted “I have my pride!” As he walked away I mused, “Really? You’re so hungry that you’re begging for money on the streets to buy food, but you’re too proud to accept a free burger/fries/Coke combo from me or to eat an [Out Of The Cold](http://www.ootc.ca/site_schedule.htm) dinner? Baloney.” ---
**Author:** ![lexi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lexi/32/6806_2.png) [@lexi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lexi)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/144 "2008-10-22T19:42:41Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > I’ve never had a child panhandle me (in the US) or seen one asleep on a bench. What is your definition of a child? When I was a street kid, there were quite a few 11, 12, and 13 year olds, who panhandled, and slept any where they could, and to me those are children, not teenagers. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/145 "2008-10-22T19:51:35Z")
> [@Cajo](#): > > It took several rejected offers to buy meals for allegedly hungry people for me to figure this out; this is precisely why I never (okay, _rarely_) hand out cash. I’ve donated to and volunteered at enough shelters and soup kitchens in downtown Toronto to know that a free hot meal is usually a few blocks in any direction. When I asked one panhandler why he wouldn’t accept my offer to buy him lunch he retorted “I have my pride!” As he walked away I mused, “Really? You’re so hungry that you’re begging for money on the streets to buy food, but you’re too proud to accept a free burger/fries/Coke combo from me or to eat an [Out Of The Cold](http://www.ootc.ca/site_schedule.htm) dinner? Baloney.” I always give cash and I don’t care what they spend it on. I assume they’re either trying to get shelter for the night or a snootful. ---
**Author:** ![lexi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lexi/32/6806_2.png) [@lexi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lexi)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/146 "2008-10-22T20:07:02Z")
> [@Cajo](#): > > It took several rejected offers to buy meals for allegedly hungry people for me to figure this out; this is precisely why I never (okay, _rarely_) hand out cash. I’ve donated to and volunteered at enough shelters and soup kitchens in downtown Toronto to know that a free hot meal is usually a few blocks in any direction. When I asked one panhandler why he wouldn’t accept my offer to buy him lunch he retorted “I have my pride!” As he walked away I mused, “Really? You’re so hungry that you’re begging for money on the streets to buy food, but you’re too proud to accept a free burger/fries/Coke combo from me or to eat an [Out Of The Cold](http://www.ootc.ca/site_schedule.htm) dinner? Baloney.” I don’t care what they are using the money for either. I know that food is easy to get for free, although it requires someone preaching at you, and sometimes lineups. Shelter and liquor are almost definitely what they are going to spend it on. Shelter, because homeless shelters are scary institutionalized places where creepy people just out of jail go, but most homeless especially homeless youth rather avoid. And of course the booze, to shut off the brain and have a little fun, and for just a couple hours stop caring that you are homeless & the rest of the world sees you as human garbage. As for street youth and homeless shelters, just as I said above, adult shelters are very dangerous places for street kids. There is an element of the adult homeless that can and does take advantage of kids, kids end up raped, pimped out, and robbed – if they aren’t grabbed by social services and sent home or to a foster home (which in many street kids minds is the worst possible thing). A hotel, or a squat is the best option, but squats are often found, and closed down, so a skid row hotel is your only option. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/147 "2008-10-22T21:47:31Z")
**lexi** , thank you for sharing that. I think that sometimes it’s all too common to actually forget that there is a person behind the stereotype and to remember that the problems that put them on the street are painfully real. Congratulations to you for overcoming your past and having a happy and successful life now. May you continue to do so. [rambling / anecdote ahead] As to one of the side issues in this thread, during some of my very worst bouts with my mental illness problems, I’d almost chosen to be homeless. That definitely qualifies as insane, correct? Well in my case, when I absolutely couldn’t function at all and no amount of psychiatry or prescribed medication made even the slightest dent, it seemed (in my delusional state) that this would be the only way I’d survive. Sort of a [Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hierarchy_of_needs) in reverse. If I took away everything extraneous in my life and only existed scrounging after what I had to have, then perhaps things would improve. Fortunately, I never tested my theory because I was too fucking scared of ending up at a place that I knew I couldn’t recover from. Then shortly there after, things have slowly begun to improve somewhat. But let me say that, if my own personal experience (and what I’ve heard from similar sufferers) can be my guide, solving this problem when regards to the mentally ill isn’t just a matter of medication. It can almost literally take forever to find the right drugs, let alone the proper amount and combination, to help and it’s damn nigh impossible to pay for such things when was is destitute. So I think assuming that’s the fix is simplistic at best and not really as workable as necessary at worst. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/148 "2008-10-22T22:41:41Z")
> [@Cajo](#): > > It took several rejected offers to buy meals for allegedly hungry people for me to figure this out; this is precisely why I never (okay, _rarely_) hand out cash. I never hand out cash, either, but I’m _usually_ taken up on my offer of a burger or a sandwich. ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/149 "2008-10-22T23:09:28Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > I remember one friend of mine, though, went in with something like 6 or 7 other people to rent a bigger place, and they all doubled up on rooms, and turned the dining room into an extra bedroom to squeeze more people in. IME, this is difficult to do in many, if not most, “good” neighborhoods. Landlords don’t like it, and some municipalities explicitly limit the number of unrelated adults per dwelling. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/150 "2008-10-23T00:02:10Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Interesting. So in your libertarian utopia, a private individual is forbidden from requesting assistance from another private individual. The coercive power of the state is used to forbid a purely private transaction between two individuals. > > There’s a stench here, but it isn’t the homeless guy with the styrofoam cup from whom it is coming. This is a ridiculous attempt at creating a strawman. A libertarian utopia does not require the allowance of all transactions between individuals. Examples of transactions that should not be allowed even in a libertarian utopia are so easy to think of that I will spare you the embarrassment of listing any here. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/151 "2008-10-23T02:10:12Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Me? Absolutely. But I’m pretty much a socialist anyway. I realize my world view doesn’t match up with most of the rest of the nation. I also have a higher tolerance for the homeless. We could use you out here to remove used needles and condoms from the playgrounds before the kids play there. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/152 "2008-10-23T09:51:05Z")
> [@Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](#): > > Take a stroll through downtown Santa Cruz sometimes. These people are homeless because they are lazy. It’s ridiculous to allow people to behave that way in a civilized community. The piss and shit in the streets, the vomit, the drunks, aggressive panhandling, lack of public toilets… fuck them. Underlining mine. Why would the homeless be responsible for the lack of available toilets? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/153 "2008-10-23T12:19:49Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > We could use you out here to remove used needles and condoms from the playgrounds before the kids play there. Someone has to do it. You can’t wish them away. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/154 "2008-10-23T12:22:55Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > This is a ridiculous attempt at creating a strawman. A libertarian utopia does not require the allowance of all transactions between individuals. Examples of transactions that should not be allowed even in a libertarian utopia are so easy to think of that I will spare you the embarrassment of listing any here. But yet you are unable to avoid the hypocrisy involved with claiming that one individual should not be allowed to ask an individual for money. Which is what criminalizing begging involves. You did call for criminalizing aggressive begging, but begging in general. Presumably in your brave new world, a person is permitted to request a job from another person. What is the difference between that and begging - this is simply requesting a higher wage for the work done (none). Many libertarians I can respect. Those who think the role of the government is to protect them from annoyances I find unpleasant to say the least. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/155 "2008-10-23T13:32:01Z")
> [@villa](#): > > But yet you are unable to avoid the hypocrisy involved with claiming that one individual should not be allowed to ask an individual for money. Which is what criminalizing begging involves. You did call for criminalizing aggressive begging, but begging in general. > > Presumably in your brave new world, a person is permitted to request a job from another person. What is the difference between that and begging - this is simply requesting a higher wage for the work done (none). > > Many libertarians I can respect. Those who think the role of the government is to protect them from annoyances I find unpleasant to say the least. There’s no hypocrisy at all in my position. I would outlaw begging not just because it’s annoying but because begging allows homeless people to stay that way and may encourage others to become homeless and has other bad effects, and criminalizing it is a way to get homeless people into Tier 1 for rehab. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/156 "2008-10-23T13:37:36Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > There’s no hypocrisy at all in my position. I would outlaw begging not just because it’s annoying but because begging allows homeless people to stay that way and may encourage others to become homeless and has other bad effects, and criminalizing it is a way to get homeless people into Tier 1 for rehab. Wow - coercive force of the government to prevent people making a personal lifestyle choice and preventing them from encouraging others to make that choice. Oh, and to coerce them into a rehab program that you, the fearless libertarian, thinks is in their best interest. You might think of changing your user name - I understand one change is allowed. ---
**Author:** ![dre2xl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@dre2xl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dre2xl)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/157 "2008-10-23T13:38:16Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Underlining mine. Why would the homeless be responsible for the lack of available toilets? It’s fairly hard to find a public toilet in here, whereas in my hometown I could take for granted that every convenience store and many other stores could have them. I always figured it was due to homeless here abusing an ever-shrinking pool of public toilets to the point of unusability. That being said, I always find the “rewarding bad behavior on an individual’s part is sometimes better for all of us” dilemma simultaneously thought-provoking and disturbing. In America, IMO, a widespread safety net probably won’t work out as well as it does in Sweden–we seem to glee in squeezing what we can get out of “The Man” just for the sake of doing so (slip on stairs? That’s a suing! Chinese buffet? Eat all the crab legs that you can! Medicare has a loophole allowing for motor scooters? Start up a scooter company and push them to all geezers on TV!), whereas other countries have more a culture of mutual understanding to not to abuse those around him. It’s just the same reason that capitalism won’t work in Mexico due to the underlying culture of corruption. Very thought-provoking. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/158 "2008-10-23T15:08:05Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Underlining mine. Why would the homeless be responsible for the lack of available toilets? From the OP - > [@](#): > > We can’t have public toilests because hookers use them to turn trick, addicts use them to shoot up, and dealers use them as bazzaars. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/159 "2008-10-23T15:25:43Z")
First of all, I’ve never heard of anyone waking up and finding themselves homeless. I work in rental property management and getting someone out is a very long process. It takes at least three months. Second, I’ve seen homeless people refuse our available rentals that will take Social Services because they didn’t like the neighborhood, the rooms were too small, there was no yard, it was too far from a bus stop (four blocks), etc etc etc. They want everything for nothing. Third, the ones we made homeless were locked out for a very simple reason: THEY DID NOT PAY THEIR RENT! When you get someone on Housing who is only responsible for $200-$300 of their rent and they won’t pay it, what are we suppose to do? Let them stay? They figure “you got most of the rent” like we should just accept partial payments. The second most common reason is the lease states the only occcupants of the apartment are to be one tenant, yet suddenly there’s five or six people staying there, in violation of the lease and every fire prevention law on the books. Getting to be homeless is a very long process. If you don’t do something to stop it, don’t expect me to support you. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/160 "2008-10-23T15:52:57Z")
The answer is Soylent Green, We have to kill and eat them. 40 percent are kids. They should be tasty. Pre booze,ciggies and drugs. They have no reason to live except to feed those who are clearly superior. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848.md?page=9)