# I Hate The Homeless **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 21, 2008, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848 "2008-10-21T02:37:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/161 "2008-10-23T15:58:31Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The answer is Soylent Green, We have to kill and eat them. 40 percent are kids. They should be tasty. Pre booze,ciggies and drugs. They have no reason to live except to feed those who are clearly superior. Manveal™ ---
**Author:** ![PotLuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbce88/32.png) [@PotLuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PotLuck)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/162 "2008-10-23T16:50:06Z")
> [@lexi](#): > > I don’t care what they are using the money for either. I know that food is easy to get for free, although it requires someone preaching at you, and sometimes lineups. > > Shelter and liquor are almost definitely what they are going to spend it on. Shelter, because homeless shelters are scary institutionalized places where creepy people just out of jail go, but most homeless especially homeless youth rather avoid. And of course the booze, to shut off the brain and have a little fun, and for just a couple hours stop caring that you are homeless & the rest of the world sees you as human garbage. I can’t argue with any of this; this supports my limited knowledge of homelessness. That doesn’t make it okay for someone to manipulate me with lies about not having eaten in three days – being conned is my specific beef. I don’t treat the homeless like human garbage, but more often than not I’m treated like some gullible cash dispenser. When I do give money it’s usually in response to a simple “spare some change?”, not elaborate sob stories that are patently untrue. After years of giving money I couldn’t afford to people like [The](http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/678638/posts) [Shaky](http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1024896474326_20305674) [Lady](http://www.tribemagazine.com/board/showthread.php?t=30713), I’ve become more cautious and less naive. I’ll never know exactly why a panhandler pretends to be starving (or blind or disabled or eight months pregnant); they could collecting money for food and shelter, they could be paying for booze or drugs (and Christ, who could blame them?), they could be hobby homeless looking for easy money. In one way or another they’re probably living lives of quiet desperation that I could never comprehend. All I know for _certain_ is that they’re trying to con me, so I’ll leave them to take cash from guilty tourists while I continue to donate my time and money to organizations I trust and respect. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/163 "2008-10-23T19:03:55Z")
I do not care whether you give them money. What bothers is the idea that they are lesser people. The scorn for the unfortunate is not appealing. If they are on drugs. I suppose it would be better if they broke into homes or robbed passerbys? Lets not consider rehab clinics to hopefully make them whole. They are our untouchables. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/164 "2008-10-23T19:18:51Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Wow - coercive force of the government to prevent people making a personal lifestyle choice and preventing them from encouraging others to make that choice. > > Oh, and to coerce them into a rehab program that you, the fearless libertarian, thinks is in their best interest. > > You might think of changing your user name - I understand one change is allowed. Thanks for continuing to prove you are a dumbass. I’m not a hypocrite for not living up to your narrow view of what a libertarian is. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/165 "2008-10-23T19:32:53Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Thanks for continuing to prove you are a dumbass. I’m not a hypocrite for not living up to your narrow view of what a libertarian is. No, you are a hypocrite for preaching individual choice and freedom, and then suggesting the full force of the state be used to curtail the choices of those whose decisions you disagree with in order to force them into rehab, as well as preventing them from politely asking you for charity, which I thought was the solution to all of the underclasses problems under your utopia. As I said before, there are many libertarians I can respect even though I disagree with them. When I see a self-interested fool, I am going to call him on it. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/166 "2008-10-23T19:39:35Z")
> [@lexi](#): > > Shelter and liquor are almost definitely what they are going to spend it on. Shelter, because homeless shelters are scary institutionalized places where creepy people just out of jail go, but most homeless especially homeless youth rather avoid. And of course the booze, to shut off the brain and have a little fun, and for just a couple hours stop caring that you are homeless & the rest of the world sees you as human garbage. I am on board with this, too. My thing is, I don’t mind if they get themselves a drink. The are already feeling like dregs. I don’t believe that people are just naturally bums. I believe hard knocks, and coming from a line of people that have been knocked hard can lead to a situation that leaves one too beat down to see their way up. I buy all kinds of frivolous crap with my money. Doesn’t hurt me any to give some of it to drunks and homeless folks, and no, I don’t require that they give up their last shred of dignity by stating exactly what they are actually going to do with the money. Just say it’s for ‘food’, and I will play along. No problem. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/167 "2008-10-23T19:51:33Z")
> [@villa](#): > > No, you are a hypocrite for preaching individual choice and freedom, and then suggesting the full force of the state be used to curtail the choices of those whose decisions you disagree with in order to force them into rehab, as well as preventing them from politely asking you for charity, which I thought was the solution to all of the underclasses problems under your utopia. > > As I said before, there are many libertarians I can respect even though I disagree with them. When I see a self-interested fool, I am going to call him on it. So your strategy is to just repeat yourself? That doesn’t sound like a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Soggy\_Biscuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Soggy\_Biscuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soggy_Biscuit)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/168 "2008-10-23T20:21:49Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > This is a ridiculous attempt at creating a strawman. A libertarian utopia does not require the allowance of all transactions between individuals. Examples of transactions that should not be allowed even in a libertarian utopia are so easy to think of that I will spare you the embarrassment of listing any here. A libertarian utopia that restricts transactions between consenting adults is not libertarian. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/169 "2008-10-23T20:25:21Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > So your strategy is to just repeat yourself? That doesn’t sound like a good idea. I’ll repeat it until you address it. You are a fake. A wannabe. You thought libertarianism was the “cool” thing. Then when it gets shown it buts up against your own petty little wants, you are willing to trample over other people’s freedom. After all, your freedom not to be asked for change is way more important than that person’s right to ask you for it. And then your justification for depriving the person of that freedom is to force them into rehab - your chosen solution for their issues. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/170 "2008-10-23T21:02:35Z")
> [@villa](#): > > After all, your freedom not to be asked for change is way more important than that person’s right to ask you for it. In my city, no such right exists. Or to be more correct, it does not exist unilaterally. Begging/Panhandling is illegal without a license. ---
**Author:** ![lexi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lexi/32/6806_2.png) [@lexi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lexi)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/171 "2008-10-23T21:02:56Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > What bothers is the idea that they are lesser people. The scorn for the unfortunate is not appealing. Having been there, the scorn and disdain is very real, as I said before, people treat the homeless like human garbage. Even the street kids who have already gone through enough abuse get treated like they are just trash. One of the effects of being treated as such, is that you might just start to believe it. Once you start doubting yourself, it becomes even more difficult to leave the life. Also, you get an US vs. Them mentality. You start to see yourself as separate from society, separated from the world. You no longer care that they hate you, you hate them, they aren’t like you, in your mind - the rest of the world becomes marks and monsters. Because you are only begging from marks & monsters, what does truth matter? You tell them what you think will work to get some change. You become just an actor, honestly you become a shell of a human and nothing more. You have no hope, and no future. Liquor & drugs and other risky behavior is an escape from this. Every bit of contempt you show to the homeless is just another attack and leads the human enduring that hate deeper into a pit. When I was 16, I thought the longest I would live is to 23. I fixated on 23 for some reason - that was the year I would be dead by - I didn’t have much at all to look forward to, and I really didn’t care about very much at all beyond my street family. The only shred of pride I had left in my body, was because I had never whored myself out. I panhandled, and I said it was for food, although I was almost definitely going to get some very cheap beer with the money, because that lie got me money. And by the way, I don’t know anyone who ever brought in a couple grand, or even a couple hundred a day panhandling. A normal amount was more like $40 and the most in a day was one very cold Christmas eve where I got a total of $200 thanks to some very generous people. If you don’t want to give out change, don’t, but at least be nice, and say “Sorry” instead of looking through the person like they aren’t there, or hurling an insult. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/172 "2008-10-23T21:29:11Z")
I give nothing to beggars but I give generously to buskers (and charities.) If you want my money at least try to provide the service of entertainment. Thus, I have respect for buskers (street entertainers). ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/173 "2008-10-23T21:53:35Z")
> [@lexi](#): > > Having been there, the scorn and disdain is very real, as I said before, people treat the homeless like human garbage. Even the street kids who have already gone through enough abuse get treated like they are just trash. > > One of the effects of being treated as such, is that you might just start to believe it. Once you start doubting yourself, it becomes even more difficult to leave the life. Also, you get an US vs. Them mentality. You start to see yourself as separate from society, separated from the world. You no longer care that they hate you, you hate them, they aren’t like you, in your mind - the rest of the world becomes marks and monsters. > > Because you are only begging from marks & monsters, what does truth matter? You tell them what you think will work to get some change. You become just an actor, honestly you become a shell of a human and nothing more. You have no hope, and no future. Liquor & drugs and other risky behavior is an escape from this. > > Every bit of contempt you show to the homeless is just another attack and leads the human enduring that hate deeper into a pit. > > When I was 16, I thought the longest I would live is to 23. I fixated on 23 for some reason - that was the year I would be dead by - I didn’t have much at all to look forward to, and I really didn’t care about very much at all beyond my street family. The only shred of pride I had left in my body, was because I had never whored myself out. I panhandled, and I said it was for food, although I was almost definitely going to get some very cheap beer with the money, because that lie got me money. > > And by the way, I don’t know anyone who ever brought in a couple grand, or even a couple hundred a day panhandling. A normal amount was more like $40 and the most in a day was one very cold Christmas eve where I got a total of $200 thanks to some very generous people. > > If you don’t want to give out change, don’t, but at least be nice, and say “Sorry” instead of looking through the person like they aren’t there, or hurling an insult. I don’t hate the homeless, but I do hate the busker’s patter I often hear from them - I dislike being taken for a mark. The guy who comes up to you uninvited and starts telling you some long rambling story about how he was supposed to take the bus, don’t you know, to meet his brother who has a place to stay … and you know that it will lead up, eventually, to a request for money. Thing is, this technique works because people are unwilling to be rude - someone is talking to you, so you don’t just cut them off and walk away. Having heard them out, it seems again rude not to give something. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/174 "2008-10-23T23:00:34Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I don’t hate the homeless, but I do hate the busker’s patter I often hear from them - I dislike being taken for a mark. > > The guy who comes up to you uninvited and starts telling you some long rambling story about how he was supposed to take the bus, don’t you know, to meet his brother who has a place to stay … and you know that it will lead up, eventually, to a request for money. > > Thing is, this technique works because people are unwilling to be rude - someone is talking to you, so you don’t just cut them off and walk away. Having heard them out, it seems again rude not to give something. That pisses me off too because it turns me hard hearted. I’d like to think I’d help someone genuinely in need, but after hearing these stories again and again you realize it’s usually just BS. Then when someone is really in need they might not get help. That’s what happens in big cities: you get used to not making eye contact with strangers because that’s how most scams start. I really hate it when someone starts on one of those rants and then gets offended when I just walk on. No, I don’t want to spend a minute listening to your bullshit rap when I know I’m just going to end up being asked for money. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/175 "2008-10-23T23:18:22Z")
> [@villa](#): > > I’ll repeat it until you address it. > > You are a fake. A wannabe. You thought libertarianism was the “cool” thing. Then when it gets shown it buts up against your own petty little wants, you are willing to trample over other people’s freedom. After all, your freedom not to be asked for change is way more important than that person’s right to ask you for it. And then your justification for depriving the person of that freedom is to force them into rehab - your chosen solution for their issues. First, you think that a libertarian utopia could not outlaw a conspiracy to commit a crime? That’s a transaction between two or more people. Similarly, panhandling could also be outlawed for the same reason–the bad effects it has on everyone else. You’ve constructed a strawman idea of libertarianism. Second, if my views differ from pure libertarianism in some minor fashionan what’s it to you? Just because I like Rand and libertarian ideas doesn’t mean I have to agree with her or them on everything. Also, it’s funny that some posters here rail on me for discussing Rand’s ideas while others rail on me for departing from them in any minor way. I’m sure you hold some ideas that you don’t adhere to completely in other areas too, and that doesn’t make you a fake or wannabe. Finally, you really need a hobby if this is how you get you jollies. At least attack me for my beliefs, not for a perceived departure from what you think my beliefs are or should be. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/176 "2008-10-23T23:24:03Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > First, you think that a libertarian utopia could not outlaw a conspiracy to commit a crime? That’s a transaction between two or more people. Similarly, panhandling could also be outlawed for the same reason–the bad effects it has on everyone else. You’ve constructed a strawman idea of libertarianism. And under your definition of libertarianism, smoking could be banned because of the effects on everyone else. Heroin could be banned because of the effects on everyone else. Porn could be banned because of the effects on everyone else. I don’t think you really understand what it is you are pretending to be. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/177 "2008-10-23T23:26:19Z")
> [@Soggy\_Biscuit](#): > > A libertarian utopia that restricts transactions between consenting adults is not libertarian. Here are more examples of transactions between consenting adults that could be restricted consistently with libertarian ideals: The purchase of stolen goods or human body parts or nuclear weapons. The sale of a vote. An agreement to defraud a third party in a business transaction. Taking money in a ponzi scheme. If you disagree, then I would argue that you’ve got a strawman idea of a libertarian utopia. Alternatively, some of my ideas of good government regulation differ from the ideal of a libertarian utopia and/or Ayn Rand’s ideas and I’m OK with that. If you think that makes me a poser or whateveran then I don’t really care. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/178 "2008-10-23T23:28:23Z")
> [@villa](#): > > And under your definition of libertarianism, smoking could be banned because of the effects on everyone else. Heroin could be banned because of the effects on everyone else. Porn could be banned because of the effects on everyone else. > > I don’t think you really understand what it is you are pretending to be. Why do you think I’m pretending to be anything? ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/179 "2008-10-23T23:51:35Z")
**lexi** , I am a very empathetic person; I have friends and family members who have been homeless - at least one who is now, I give to charity, hell, I’ve given to more panhandlers in my life than I’ve turned down, I drove a couple miles home and a couple miles back to give $10 to a panhandler recently - I can’t explain why because I’m pretty much against panhandling, all I can say is that I’m a softy. But for some reason all I can think of when reading your posts is [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7p4mioawIA). You have to give people your consent to let them make you feel like shit, and alcohol is **never** an acceptable solution to or escape from your problems. ---
**Author:** ![lexi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lexi/32/6806_2.png) [@lexi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lexi)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848/180 "2008-10-24T04:11:02Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > **lexi** , I am a very empathetic person; I have friends and family members who have been homeless - at least one who is now, I give to charity, hell, I’ve given to more panhandlers in my life than I’ve turned down, I drove a couple miles home and a couple miles back to give $10 to a panhandler recently - I can’t explain why because I’m pretty much against panhandling, all I can say is that I’m a softy. But for some reason all I can think of when reading your posts is [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7p4mioawIA). You have to give people your consent to let them make you feel like shit, and alcohol is **never** an acceptable solution to or escape from your problems. Sorry, no video shows up at youtube when I click, but if you are talking about consenting to your ego being broken. Abuse is systemic, and the effects over years can erode the spirit. A child who is abused, and in that environment - will end up in even more of a degraded emotional state. Perhaps some people are strong enough, even some children are strong enough - but nobody is made of stone - eventually it will wear upon you. Regarding alcohol, no - it is not a solution, but I will be honest, and say, at times, it is a temporary antidote for some people, and it is a method of self medication. It isn’t long term, and it doesn’t fix anything, and in fact it screws you up even more, but in the moment… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-homeless/468848.md?page=10)