# I hate the oppressive police culture in the USA **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 15, 2014, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-oppressive-police-culture-in-the-usa/698534 "2014-09-15T04:14:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-oppressive-police-culture-in-the-usa/698534/61 "2014-09-15T18:52:05Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > All of which are clearly capital offenses… > Assuming any of those facts are true which is unclear. No, none of them are capital offenses, and the robbery, stolen property, and assault are backed up by video (and the testimony of his partner in the crime). So it is not unclear. You alleged that the incident in Ferguson would open some eyes about excessive police harassment. But the Ferguson incident did not (apparently) involve someone who was innocently walking down the street when the cops stopped him because racism, or because the police are Evil, or the kind of thing we are discussing in this thread. Who, if anyone, is at fault in the shooting of Michael Brown has yet to be established, but the police did not stop him because they were stopping anyone they pleased and demanding ID. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-oppressive-police-culture-in-the-usa/698534/62 "2014-09-15T19:21:38Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, none of them are capital offenses, and the robbery, stolen property, and assault are backed up by video (and the testimony of his partner in the crime). So it is not unclear. > You alleged that the incident in Ferguson would open some eyes about excessive police harassment. But the Ferguson incident did not (apparently) involve someone who was innocently walking down the street when the cops stopped him because racism, or because the police are Evil, or the kind of thing we are discussing in this thread. > > Who, if anyone, is at fault in the shooting of Michael Brown has yet to be established, but the police did not stop him because they were stopping anyone they pleased and demanding ID. > > Regards, > Shodan This is a tangent I guess but even the cop that murdered Michael Brown has said he had no idea about the cigars when he stopped Michael so the fact that robbery had happened was completely irrelevant and was released purely to muddy the waters (exhibit A of it being a success is above). There no evidence of jaywalking; there’s no information as to why Brown was even stopped in the first place because the police never wrote a report on the incident until after the whole firestorm erupted and the one they eventually wrote basically just gave the date and time of the shooting. So yes it is possible Brown was stopped just because the cop was stopping anyone he pleased. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-oppressive-police-culture-in-the-usa/698534/63 "2014-09-15T19:50:32Z")
I support the local police where I live. I haven’t had a problem with them. I wish they’d do more and were better equipped to detect and address private vigilante / stalker groups (domestic terrorists) though. Tactical gear & APCs don’t help you when groups flash-mob in and then flash-mob out again. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-oppressive-police-culture-in-the-usa/698534/64 "2014-09-15T19:57:58Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > I’m 54, have lived in 4 major metropolitan areas, and never once been stopped by the police. I’m 49, also lived in metropolitan areas. I have been stopped a few times in my teens-young-adulthood. Can’t really complain. I either doing stuff or planning to do stuff that wasn’t quite exactly legal. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-oppressive-police-culture-in-the-usa/698534/65 "2014-09-15T20:01:15Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > This is a tangent I guess but even the cop that murdered Michael Brown has said he had no idea about the cigars when he stopped Michael so the fact that robbery had happened was completely irrelevant… Not exactly - the arresting officer said he initially stopped Brown because he was jaywalking and blocking traffic, but then realized that Brown could have been involved in the strong arm robberty the report of which had just gone out on the police radio. > [@](#): > > … and was released purely to muddy the waters Actually it was released in response to a Freedom of Information request from members of the police, not at the behest of the police. > [@](#): > > There no evidence of jaywalking; there’s no information as to why Brown was even stopped in the first place… Also incorrect. The arresting officer’s account that he stopped Brown for jaywalking and blocking traffic is backed up by a later witness, who said that Wilson shouted at Brown to “get the f\* back on the sidewalk”, which is probably not something one would say to someone who is already on the sidewalk. Hence, [jaywalking](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/13/ferguson-missouri-teen-shooting-witness/13992387/). Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-oppressive-police-culture-in-the-usa/698534/66 "2014-09-15T20:09:26Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Yup, it also in Germany, but guess how many times I was randomly stopped and asked for it in Germany? 0 > > And in the USA it isn’t required, but how many times was I randomly stopped and asked for it while doing nothing suspicious? Enough times that I purposely did not carry any so I could fuck with the police and I grew a deep hatred of them, hell I could predict the scripts they would use, I would argue ID law with them, it became a hobby of sorts. See, the reason you such a negative opinion of our LO is because you deliberately FUCK with them! Anything that happens to you is your own fault, and RICHLY deserved! ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-oppressive-police-culture-in-the-usa/698534/67 "2014-09-15T20:11:35Z")
I think most Americans carry ID with them more because it’s necessary for certain services (like, oh, driving, buying a drink or a pack of cigarettes, etc.) than because of some ‘oppressive police culture’ asking to see our papers every time we go outside. As with others, I’ve certainly been stopped by the police my share of times, especially in my (mis-spent) youth, but never JUST to see my ID. There was always a reason (like, oh, them thinking I had stolen my car or was looking to cause some mischief). You do have to have your license and proof of insurance with you if you drive in the US (you don’t in some other countries I’ve visited, like the UK), but every where I’ve gone you still need ID if you want to buy a drink or a smoke (or get a prescription refilled)…and a lot of places I traveled too require you to show your freaking passport to get a drink, since a US drivers license wasn’t good enough as proof of age (from friends the inverse is also the case…a lot of folks coming to the US and trying to use their equivalent of drivers license are asked for passport instead). So, seems to me, you still need to have your freaking ID with you anyway…unless you plan not to drive, buy a drink or whatever other myriad services you might want to use requiring an ID. Most of this has little or nothing to do with any ‘oppressive police culture in the USA’ that the OP is moaning about, however…they cops are simply enforcing local or state or even federal laws. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-oppressive-police-culture-in-the-usa/698534/68 "2014-09-15T20:13:11Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > I carry ID, but lie and say I don’t have it because I refuse to cooperate with the destruction of my own civil rights. You’re no better than the OP. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-oppressive-police-culture-in-the-usa/698534/69 "2014-09-15T20:15:58Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > I hate having to lie, but sometimes it is the better choice. They stopped really caring whether you actually carry ID or your drivers’ license here years ago anyway, since they just force you to give your info under threat of “detainment” and after they find you in the system they have your ID or DL picture on their screen anyway. What the hell is the imposition of giving your name to cop!? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-oppressive-police-culture-in-the-usa/698534/70 "2014-09-15T20:17:07Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > I carry ID, but lie and say I don’t have it because I refuse to cooperate with the destruction of my own civil rights. Not carrying ID might not be a crime, but lying to an officer definitely _is_. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-oppressive-police-culture-in-the-usa/698534/71 "2014-09-15T20:18:39Z")
> [@grude](#): > > I recently had an online friend who lives clear across the USA from my usual resident area relate how he had been riding his bike(dude is in his late 40s and a programmer) and smoking a cigarette and out of nowhere he was knocked off his bike and hit the ground and suddenly had two cops swarming on him. > > His crime? He had apparently crossed over a street that is on university property where smoking is forbidden without realizing it, this merited being knocked off his bike to be cuffed and arrested. University police, right? They seem to have a lower standard. One of my sisters was married to a University cop who turned out to be nuts. With both of them working, she didn’t notice until he retired and started spending more time at home, subjecting their kid to phsysical and verbal abuse. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-oppressive-police-culture-in-the-usa/698534/72 "2014-09-15T20:35:08Z")
So the OPs friend willingly breaks the law and the police rightly intervene and now the entire country is Nazi Germany. Nice. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-oppressive-police-culture-in-the-usa/698534/73 "2014-09-15T20:35:10Z")
> [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](#): > > The decision to outlaw drinking in public is made at the local level, and is something that almost all communities have decided to do (Bourbon Street and the Las Vegas Strip notwithstanding). Ever watch a COPS Mardi Gras special? They certainly do arrest for public drinking on Bourbon Street and make it a point to let the arrestee know that being able to drink in public is a myth. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-oppressive-police-culture-in-the-usa/698534/74 "2014-09-15T20:39:30Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > You’re no better than the OP. Okay. > [@etv78](#): > > What the hell is the imposition of giving your name to cop!? Civil rights actually matter to me. If I am walking down the street and an armed thug stops me under threat of being shot and demands that I waste a single moment of my life interacting with them, that is absolutely an imposition. > [@Smapti](#): > > Not carrying ID might not be a crime, but lying to an officer definitely _is_. I don’t follow laws just for the sake of being an obedient little sheep. There are so many trivial nonsensical laws that I don’t know a single person above pre-school age that has not committed a jailable offense at some point in their lives. Some laws are stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-oppressive-police-culture-in-the-usa/698534/75 "2014-09-15T20:43:44Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > I don’t follow laws just for the sake of being an obedient little sheep. How about obeying laws because you have the slightest bit of respect for American democracy and your fellow voters who have created those laws? Or are you just another America-hating jackanape? > [@](#): > > There are so many trivial nonsensical laws that I don’t know a single person above pre-school age that has not committed a jailable offense at some point in their lives. And now you know me, so you can stop saying that. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-oppressive-police-culture-in-the-usa/698534/76 "2014-09-15T20:44:00Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > A lot of people are not subjected to police harassment as pedestrians here in America because they walk ONLY to get to or from their cars. > I carry ID, but lie and say I don’t have it because I refuse to cooperate with the destruction of my own civil rights. Once, I was sitting in a car. I was not driving. The engine was not running. But some police person came up to me and asked to see my driver’s license. I replied, "Why? I’m not driving. I will show you some ID. But I don’t think I need to show you my driver’s license. As it turns out, in my jurisdiction, as long as someone is sitting in the “front seat” of a car, they are requred to show a driver’s license (unless someone else is driving). Seemed very strange to me. If I recall, that crazy law also applied to drinking. In other words, if I was drunk and I was sitting in the back seat of my car, that would be no problem. But if I was sitting in the front seat, I could be charged with operating a motor vehicle while drunk. Isn’t that crazy? I’m guessing some innocent person got into a lot of trouble over that crazy law. I’m guessing some police person asked them for their license and they told the police to “piss off” (albeit politely). But they still got a good beating and charged with some serious crime. Being drunk in the front seat of a car is a real serious problem if you get charged with that. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-oppressive-police-culture-in-the-usa/698534/77 "2014-09-15T20:51:44Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > If I am walking down the street and an armed thug stops me under threat of being shot and demands that I waste a single moment of my life interacting with them, that is absolutely an imposition. :imagine a laughing smiley here: Take the stick out of your ass & stop walking like you’re looking for a fight with anyone in a blue uniform and you just might see them as a human being rather than a thug. Your blood pressure will thank you. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-oppressive-police-culture-in-the-usa/698534/78 "2014-09-15T20:56:19Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > How about obeying laws because you have the slightest bit of respect for American democracy and your fellow voters who have created those laws? Or are you just another America-hating jackanape? > > And now you know me, so you can stop saying that. I disobey these laws because I love America and democracy, actually. Freedom and civil rights are the part I like, not the part where we march ever-closer to a police state. And no, I do not know you and you do not know all of the laws, so you don’t really know that either. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-oppressive-police-culture-in-the-usa/698534/79 "2014-09-15T21:00:06Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > Once, I was sitting in a car. I was not driving. The engine was not running. But some police person came up to me and asked to see my driver’s license. I replied, "Why? I’m not driving. I will show you some ID. But I don’t think I need to show you my driver’s license. > > As it turns out, in my jurisdiction, as long as someone is sitting in the “front seat” of a car, they are requred to show a driver’s license (unless someone else is driving). > > Seemed very strange to me. > > If I recall, that crazy law also applied to drinking. In other words, if I was drunk and I was sitting in the back seat of my car, that would be no problem. But if I was sitting in the front seat, I could be charged with operating a motor vehicle while drunk. > > Isn’t that crazy? I’m guessing some innocent person got into a lot of trouble over that crazy law. I’m guessing some police person asked them for their license and they told the police to “piss off” (albeit politely). But they still got a good beating and charged with some serious crime. Being drunk in the front seat of a car is a real serious problem if you get charged with that. Yep, I used to know a guy who got a DUI for driving to a convenience store sober, buying beer and drinking it in the parking lot, realizing he was too drunk to drive, and sleeping it off in his van. He had access to the keys, so it did not matter that he had not driven a single inch with a drop of alcohol in his system. Now I could see charging him with trespassing, but a DUI while not driving is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-oppressive-police-culture-in-the-usa/698534/80 "2014-09-15T21:00:26Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > I disobey these laws because I love America and democracy, actually. Freedom and civil rights are the part I like, not the part where we march ever-closer to a police state. > > And no, I do not know you and you do not know all of the laws, so you don’t really know that either. Out of curiosity, do you also make a big deal when you are asking to produce your ID for some clerk at a store, or at a restaurant when you use a credit card, or when you want to get a prescription…and the 100’s of other things that people are going to ask you to show your ID for in a modern society? Or is it just police asking that drives you nuts? Serious question, no snark intended. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-oppressive-police-culture-in-the-usa/698534.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hate-the-oppressive-police-culture-in-the-usa/698534.md?page=5)