Then however valid it may be, it is unsound and therefore destroyed.
Hello :rolleyes: . That was rather the point.
Oh come now. Don’t imply that combat only has some special sway over Americans. I’ve not said that any of the wars the United States have engaged in have been right or moral. I’ve not said that I personally look favorably upon the Iraq war or any such nonsense. In fact, most Americans are rather not pleased with that war at the moment (cite). All I’m saying is that humans, on some level, enjoy fighting. If I need to pull up historical examples from other cultures, or violent films made by foreign directors, or modern episodes of violence perpetrated by other cultures, it will be trivial for me to do so. Is the American appetite for violence greater than that of other cultures’? Maybe, but there’s a million different metrics to approach that general sentiment, and I’m not sure how useful any of them are. Just please don’t pretend that we’re uniquely affected.
Not only Americans, but America has become more and more a nation in love with militarism. With using force to solve problems, with worshipping soldiers, with war as an ideal, with an ever larger military regardless of the cost to itself. We simply don’t NEED such a grotesquely oversized military; we have it because we want it.
I didn’t apply it to Iraq and say I agreed. I’ll certainly admit to agreeing with the principle, but I don’t always agree with what other people prioritise as “worse” or always agree that certain situations are necessary. It’s possible to agree with a measure and then disagree on application of it; like a computer, it’s garbage in, garbage out.
I think it should be pretty clear to anyone who has ever been on a sports team, joined a fraternity or has been part of any organization with a strong esprit de corps why one might love the military lifestyle. The sense of comaraderie and tradition. Of doing something to challenge yourself and serve your country. The chance to blow up shit with some really cool weapons. Just generally being part of something larger and older than yourself.
I think people join the military for mostly positive reasons but they only have a vague abstract notion of what war is about.
Who’s to say? Does a peakcock need such grotesquely oversized feathers?
“Men, all this stuff you’ve heard about America not wanting to fight, wanting to stay out of the war, is a lot of horse dung. Americans traditionally love to fight. All real Americans love the sting of battle. When you were kids, you all admired the champion marble shooter, the fastest runner, big league ball players, the toughest boxers. Americans love a winner and will not tolerate a loser. Americans play to win all the time. I wouldn’t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed. That’s why Americans have never lost, and will never lose a war… because the very thought of losing is hateful to Americans.”
- Patton
I think it’s logically consistent. You can hate something and still consider it necessary. You can say “I hate war, I hope we never have to have one, but in some situations I think it’s the lesser of two evils. And in those situations, I think that those who fight those wars are behaving honorably, by struggling to prevent whatever greater evil necessitated that war.” I don’t see any logical inconsistency there.
My problem with John McCain’s stance on war is that I think he overestimates the necessity of some wars (like the one we’re involved in now) or the benefit derived from them. But that’s a criticism of his judgment, not his logic.
Sometimes soldiers see the big picture, and sometimes they use there supposed expertise in the subject to intimidate others to be quiet. The “You’re not a soldier, I am, so you know nothing about it and I know everything, so you shut up and what I say goes”, position.
There’s no real inconsistency here, at least in my mind. One of my main hobbies is martial arts. I’ve been training in one form or another for about half my life. It’s a lot of fun. I like learning about all aspects of how people react in terrible circumstances, and learning to move well and adapt to rapidly changing circumstances has its own beauty and charm.
I’ve also been in a few real fights, including ones where the other guy had a weapon and was willing and able to kill me. I don’t ever want to be in that position again. But that’s at least part of what I train for. If I do have to fight a guy with a knife or a gun again, I want it to be over really damn fast, I want to be the one who goes home to his wife, and I want to have more control over that outcome than pure dumb luck.
That means learning to fight really well. You can’t get good without loving it a little bit. That’s part of what gives you the drive to keep doing it.