# I have a hypothesis about COVID that everybody hates **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 21, 2021, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-hypothesis-about-covid-that-everybody-hates/952914 "2021-10-21T15:25:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-hypothesis-about-covid-that-everybody-hates/952914/41 "2023-01-17T00:09:37Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > This thing doesn’t kill dogs, cats, cattle, bats, lizards, frogs, etc. (well, at least not much). Humans are the reservoir! You KNOW that! Humans are the carriers of this thing. A virus will do better when it doesn’t kill its host. It can spread more easily from something alive than dead. I’m failing to see what point you think you’re making. ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-hypothesis-about-covid-that-everybody-hates/952914/42 "2023-01-17T00:58:09Z")
You might be right. You might even be the Charlton Heston with a schmeiser star of some video game. That said, as the single perfect uninfected person left on earth, do you really want to paint sidewalks and streets with human blood? No, of course not! You’re no sociopath… right? [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/AZWy7q3AXy0/hqdefault.jpg "The Omega Man It's almost dark!") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZWy7q3AXy0) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-hypothesis-about-covid-that-everybody-hates/952914/43 "2023-01-17T01:13:43Z")
Germs definitely travel from humans to other animals as well as the other way around. There have been multiple cases of other species becoming infected with Covid-19, and concerns about that. So yes humans are reservoirs that can be sources to infect other species. There was in fact a hypothesis that it least one variant had been from an animal being infected by a human with Covid-19 and then mutating in the animal population, infecting them, before jumping back to humans. > **[What is Reverse Zoonosis?](https://www.news-medical.net/health/What-is-Reverse-Zoonosis.aspx?showform=cookiesettings)** > > Reverse zoonosis, in which a disease transmits from humans to animals, poses threats to animal health as well as public health. > **[New COVID variants could emerge from animals or from people with chronic...](https://theconversation.com/amp/new-covid-variants-could-emerge-from-animals-or-from-people-with-chronic-infections-but-its-not-cause-for-panic-187115)** > > Animal reservoirs and people who experience chronic COVID infections could potentially see the emergence of new variants. But these variants aren’t necessarily cause for concern. FWIW. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-hypothesis-about-covid-that-everybody-hates/952914/44 "2023-01-17T01:39:34Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I mean, it wasn’t completely wrong. There are a lot of coronaviruses out there, some of which have been in humans for quite a while, and in fact some non-negligible percentage of “common colds” are caused by some of those coronaviruses. And the covid-19 virus is more closely related to those human coronaviruses than it is to, say, influenza or rhinovirus. But it didn’t evolve _from_ them, so that suggestion was completely wrong. Our immune systems have likely already encountered the viruses that are already circulating in humans, so anything that evolves directly from them is less likely to be catastrophic (although it can be, as with flu variants). An important element in how nasty SARS-CoV-2 was is that it crossed species. > [@armedmonkey](#): > > I was never really happy with the “let’s blame bats!” thing. Then you can rest assured that nobody is holding bats morally responsible. But the objective facts of the proximate origin of the virus before it first crossed from another species to a human are important, because some of the steps may have involved different species (and people) in close proximity at wet markets. > [@armedmonkey](#): > > COVID is a human virus. We are its’ reservoir. If you think about it, you KNOW that. It may have started out as something else, as all biological things do, but the damn thing is a human virus… You KNOW that! Humans are the carriers of this thing. Sure, it is now, but that doesn’t change where it came _from_. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-hypothesis-about-covid-that-everybody-hates/952914/45 "2023-01-17T02:49:57Z")
My point here, as it was years ago, is that viruses evolve. It is very, very simple evolution. Like it or not, COVID19 is a human virus. It evolved in humans. Yes, you can trace it’s lineage, but there’s a danger there. The danger is in thinking that it is the same virus that infects bats or civets or whatever. It’s not. Think “bird flu” . Problematic zoonotic infection. Can be deadly, even, But it’s reservoir isn’t human. Whereas COVID19’s reservoir is human. As a virus, it is remarkably successful in it’s infection rate… among humans. Ask yourselves, “How many people do I know that have had COVID and recovered?” I would suspect that number is quite high. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-hypothesis-about-covid-that-everybody-hates/952914/46 "2023-01-17T02:56:53Z")
To expand on that a bit, think of the delta variant. There is no way in HELL you can argue that that didn’t evolve in humans. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-hypothesis-about-covid-that-everybody-hates/952914/47 "2023-01-17T03:17:11Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > My point here, as it was years ago, is that viruses evolve. No, that wasn’t your point. Your point was this, quoting your original post: > [@armedmonkey](#): > > My hypothesis that everybody hates is this: COVID19 didn’t come from bats, or civets, or some Chinese lab. IT MUTATED IN HUMANS. People are resistant to the concept that there is NOT an outside source. Your “hypothesis”, if something you pulled out of your backside with no expert knowledge or evidence deserves that description, was **wrong**. > [@armedmonkey](#): > > Like it or not, COVID19 is a human virus. It evolved in humans. “It evolved in humans” seems to be a crude attempt to equivocate between a claim about the origin, and the obvious fact that it continues evolving all the time. It was evolving **in bats**. Then after it transferred **from bats** , it continued evolving in humans. > [@armedmonkey](#): > > Yes, you can trace it’s lineage, but there’s a danger there. The danger is in thinking that it is the same virus that infects bats or civets or whatever. It’s not. Any danger is entirely in your imagination. Nobody thinks that it is still exactly the same as when it transferred to humans **from bats**. One more time, with feeling: 1. A virus was evolving **in bats**. 2. Somewhere, possibly via an intermediate host, it transferred **from bats to humans**. 3. It continued evolving in humans. Focus on the parts in bold about **bats**. Take your blood pressure meds if you need to. You can keep repeating yourself, or you can fuck off and find something else to obsess about, but these facts won’t change. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-hypothesis-about-covid-that-everybody-hates/952914/48 "2023-01-17T03:18:35Z")
It’s almost a non-sequitur, but it’s a setup for a slippery slope. 1. Delta (and Omicron and others) mutated in humans 2. _mumble, mumble, mumble_ 3. COVID came from humans in the first place 4. Profit, aka I was right all along! ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-hypothesis-about-covid-that-everybody-hates/952914/49 "2023-01-17T04:56:57Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > think of the delta variant. There is no way in HELL you can argue that that didn’t evolve in humans. Delta schmelta … from one of the articles above: > [@](#): > > One [study](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8702434/) analysed the genetic code of omicron and showed high levels of similarity in the spike protein with that of mouse coronaviruses. The authors suggest the omicron variant may have occurred as a result of a human-to-mouse infection, mutation in the infected mouse, followed by transmission back to humans. Really not sure you have a coherent point you are making, though. Reservoir is a matter of perspective, is that it? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2023, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-hypothesis-about-covid-that-everybody-hates/952914/50 "2023-01-18T01:04:55Z")
I just wanted to mention bats one more time before this thread dies. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/Uuvaos1WHTk/maxresdefault.jpg "Baby Bat Burritos") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uuvaos1WHTk) ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2023, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-hypothesis-about-covid-that-everybody-hates/952914/51 "2023-01-18T01:14:59Z")
Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww… ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2023, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-hypothesis-about-covid-that-everybody-hates/952914/52 "2023-01-18T02:04:44Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/wNeD0EWyamc/maxresdefault.jpg "Bat Dance Party") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNeD0EWyamc) ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2023, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-hypothesis-about-covid-that-everybody-hates/952914/53 "2023-01-18T02:26:59Z")
[Bats 101 - Bat Conservation International](https://www.batcon.org/about-bats/bats-101/) > ### 8 Amazing Bat Facts > > 1. Bats are the only mammal capable of true flight. > 2. Tequila is produced from agave plants that in the wild rely on bats as their primary pollinators. > 3. The world’s smallest bat is the Bumblebee Bat measuring up to 29 – 33 mm (1.1 –3 in) in length and 2 g (0.071 oz) in mass as a full-grown adult. > 4. The world’s largest bat is the Giant Golden-crowned Flying Fox with a wingspan up to 6 ft! > 5. The oldest known bat was a male Brandt’s myotis who lived at least 41 years. > 6. The fastest bat in the world is the [Mexican Free-tailed Bat](https://www.batcon.org/bat/tadarida-brasiliensis/), flying in short bursts at speeds up to 100 mph! > 7. Of the 1,400+ species of bats in the world, only three are vampire bats that drink blood. > 8. [Bracken Cave](https://www.batcon.org/our-work/protect-restore-landscapes/bracken-cave-preserve/) is the world’s largest bat colony. Located near San Antonio, Texas, USA, this is a summer maternity colony for up to 20 million Mexican Free-tailed Bats. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2023, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-hypothesis-about-covid-that-everybody-hates/952914/54 "2023-01-18T02:31:07Z")
Aww what adorable little disease vectors! ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2023, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-hypothesis-about-covid-that-everybody-hates/952914/55 "2023-01-18T07:02:53Z")
I have used that exact description for my own children. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2023, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-hypothesis-about-covid-that-everybody-hates/952914/56 "2023-01-18T14:59:49Z")
One time I was on a hospital elevator during infectious disease rounds with another resident, the attending physician and a mom and her child, who was profusely sneezing. Mother and catarrhic child departed at an interim floor, after which the attending turned to us and said, “A vector.” ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2023, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-hypothesis-about-covid-that-everybody-hates/952914/57 "2023-01-18T19:08:48Z")
Of course the adult, not immunized for pertussis as an adult, with the mild runny nose due to pertussis, is the vector to the baby in elevator … Although I will share what the ID professor stated to us in med school. “If you have a preschooler in your life just accept the fact that they’re a microscopic layer of snot and poop on every surface, no matter how much you clean.” Paraphrasing of course. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2023, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-hypothesis-about-covid-that-everybody-hates/952914/58 "2023-01-18T19:40:53Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Of course the adult, not immunized for pertussis as an adult, with the mild runny nose due to pertussis, is the vector to the baby in elevator … Highly unlikely, unless they’re [coughing or sneezing](https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases/pertussis/pertparents.html#spread). Adults also tend to be better about covering their mouths when they sneeze or cough. But not always. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2023, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-hypothesis-about-covid-that-everybody-hates/952914/59 "2023-01-18T19:56:39Z")
Okay runny nose and sneezes or coughs … My observation is adults are not very good at that. Of course the babies were also getting RSV from older children and adults too. Vectors are not always the cute one in the room is all. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2023, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-hypothesis-about-covid-that-everybody-hates/952914/60 "2023-01-18T20:35:04Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Vectors are not always the cute one in the room is all. [Roger, Roger.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVq4_HhBK8Y) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-hypothesis-about-covid-that-everybody-hates/952914.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-hypothesis-about-covid-that-everybody-hates/952914.md?page=4)