# I have a problem with the moderator tomndebb **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 3, 2007, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-problem-with-the-moderator-tomndebb/394423 "2007-03-03T15:04:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-problem-with-the-moderator-tomndebb/394423/21 "2007-03-04T01:51:15Z")
[QUOTE=Autolycus] Well, if we’re all upset about the lack of debate then I can try to get something going on now. My ideas on homosexuality are pretty standard modern Catholic, though, so I doubt I can provide the type of answers that the Straight Dope usually likes. For me, it all comes down to reproduction I suppose. Homosexuals cant, so one could make the argument that it’s unnatural in the sense of ‘against Divine Law’ God, it’s been a while since I’ve had this debate with intellectual people, so I hope that made some sense. [/quote] Why do it here? If you are seriously interested in debating the question, you should open a thread in GD, framing the terms of the debate better than **Wildfire** did. But this question has been debated any number of times in GD already. > [@](#): > > If people dont want a debate, and they just want to pile on **Wildfire** , then I suggest those posters instead use that energy to see if their own posting habits need improvement. I have been guilty of the occassional pile-on myself, but I really dont think this warrants it. The only reason I think criticizing **Wildfire** here wouldn’t be warranted is that he appears to be too stupid to make it worthwhile. He keeps pulling this same old shit repeatedly. And remember, **Wildfire** opened this thread himself after the reasons for closing the original thread were explained by **tomndebb**. Anything he gets here he well deserves. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-problem-with-the-moderator-tomndebb/394423/22 "2007-03-04T02:02:03Z")
[QUOTE=Autolycus] For me, it all comes down to reproduction I suppose. Homosexuals cant, so one could make the argument that it’s unnatural in the sense of ‘against Divine Law’ God, it’s been a while since I’ve had this debate with intellectual people, so I hope that made some sense. [/QUOTE] Ok, here is an honest question. Why is God’s Law considered “natural” to you? This opens up a lot of debates but, to me, “natural” would mean what humans do of their own accord. If following God’s Law is natural, why are we not all Saints? Humans have weaknesses. Even assuming that homosexuality is a sin or a flaw, why isn’t the flawed human condition considered to be the “natural” one? Otherwise, the doctrine teaches that all humans are sinners so we must all be “unnatural” by that logic. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-problem-with-the-moderator-tomndebb/394423/23 "2007-03-04T02:11:53Z")
[QUOTE=Autolycus] …For me, it all comes down to reproduction I suppose. Homosexuals cant, so one could make the argument that it’s unnatural in the sense of ‘against Divine Law’… [/QUOTE] OKay, so it’s unnatural, ‘against Divine Law’, for; people who have become sterile due to accident or illness, post menopausal women, and people with fertility problems to have sex? Have fun defending this :D! CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-problem-with-the-moderator-tomndebb/394423/24 "2007-03-04T02:19:21Z")
[QUOTE=Autolycus] For me, it all comes down to reproduction I suppose. Homosexuals cant, so one could make the argument that it’s unnatural in the sense of ‘against Divine Law’ God, it’s been a while since I’ve had this debate with intellectual people, so I hope that made some sense. [/QUOTE] It only makes sense if God is a part of nature. Is he? Before you answer, let me caution you that God caused a virgin birth. Was that natural? Can virgin women naturally reproduce without the services of a man? ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-problem-with-the-moderator-tomndebb/394423/25 "2007-03-04T02:25:20Z")
Hey hey, I only posted my views because I thought the entire reason people were upset in this thread was that **Wildfire** posted a lame and contentless debate. If people wanted to debate, then we can debate about something, I figured. However, I dont desire to defend my viewpoints tooth-and-nail and to the death, a la The Pit. Things get very ugly here, very fast. I just thought I’d get things started, since that’s what everyone was complaining about. No desire to troll, honest! If people really want to hear my opinions and see me do my best to try to explain and defend them, then that person is free to start a thread in GD. It’s not my cup of tea, but I made my bed and I’ll sleep in it, politefully and in GD, if that’s what people desire. Sorry if I pissed anyone off. I guess I was trying to help **Wildfire** a bit, and it backfired :smack: ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-problem-with-the-moderator-tomndebb/394423/26 "2007-03-04T02:34:19Z")
Trust us, **Wildfire** is _not_ the person to be helping or defending. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-problem-with-the-moderator-tomndebb/394423/27 "2007-03-04T02:34:44Z")
[QUOTE=Autolycus] Sorry if I pissed anyone off. I guess I was trying to help **Wildfire** a bit, and it backfired :smack: [/QUOTE] Try reading some of his prior threads before trying to help him too much. He has repeatedly proved himself a simple minded, misogynistic, waste of air that those with rational thoughts could be using. His most recent locked thread leads me to think he’s also a homophobe. > [@Autolycus](#): > > Well, if we’re all upset about the lack of debate then I can try to get something going on now. My ideas on homosexuality are pretty standard modern Catholic, though, so I doubt I can provide the type of answers that the Straight Dope usually likes. For me, it all comes down to reproduction I suppose. Homosexuals cant, so one could make the argument that it’s unnatural in the sense of ‘against Divine Law’ God, it’s been a while since I’ve had this debate with intellectual people, so I hope that made some sense. It isn’t that we can’t, its that we don’t in most cases. Ever had a blowjob? That would be unnatural and agaist divine law since it can’t result in reproduction. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-problem-with-the-moderator-tomndebb/394423/28 "2007-03-04T02:37:23Z")
[QUOTE=Shagnasty] Ok, here is an honest question. Why is God’s Law considered “natural” to you? This opens up a lot of debates but, to me, “natural” would mean what humans do of their own accord. If following God’s Law is natural, why are we not all Saints? Humans have weaknesses. Even assuming that homosexuality is a sin or a flaw, why isn’t the flawed human condition considered to be the “natural” one? Otherwise, the doctrine teaches that all humans are sinners so we must all be “unnatural” by that logic. [/QUOTE] I like your take on this, but want to additionally respond to the original supposition. I’d add that if “natural” is what we’re after, wouldn’t that which is more “manifest” be more natural? I mean, I’ve seen homosexuality manifested quite convincingly; seen it, smelt it, touched, felt it, tasted it, caressed . . ., oh, what were we talking about again? Bottom line, homosexuality quite manifestly exists; god and all his purported laws don’t. Which is more natural – that which you can see, or that which you have to take a giant leap in order for it to be real to you? ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-problem-with-the-moderator-tomndebb/394423/29 "2007-03-04T02:43:34Z")
[QUOTE=5-4-Fighting] I like your take on this, but want to additionally respond to the original supposition. I’d add that if “natural” is what we’re after, wouldn’t that which is more “manifest” be more natural? I mean, I’ve seen homosexuality manifested quite convincingly; seen it, smelt it, touched, felt it, tasted it, caressed . . ., oh, what were we talking about again? Bottom line, homosexuality quite manifestly exists; god and all his purported laws don’t. Which is more natural – that which you can see, or that which you have to take a giant leap in order for it to be real to you? [/QUOTE] I meant to say “god and all his purported laws\*, not so apparently\*.” I’m an atheist, but no need to unnecessarily offend those who do believe. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-problem-with-the-moderator-tomndebb/394423/30 "2007-03-04T03:11:34Z")
[QUOTE=Autolycus] For me, it all comes down to reproduction I suppose. Homosexuals cant, so one could make the argument that it’s unnatural in the sense of ‘against Divine Law’ God, it’s been a while since I’ve had this debate with intellectual people, so I hope that made some sense. [/QUOTE] So being Pope is unnatural and goes “against Divine Law”? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-problem-with-the-moderator-tomndebb/394423/31 "2007-03-04T03:16:38Z")
And, as usual, **Wildfire** had disappeared from the thread. A general waste of space, he is. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-problem-with-the-moderator-tomndebb/394423/32 "2007-03-04T03:34:43Z")
Gods are unnatural. They, according to their own supposed official life stories, violate the laws of nature at every turn and expect us to worship them for upsetting the system. Natural law is orderly, divine law is capricious. Divine law, in addition to the gods themselves, is unnatural and therefore inferior to nature. Humans and the acts of humans are consistent with natural law and therefore a part of nature. Gods, assuming they do exist, should take their rightful places as servants of humanity or prepare to be destroyed. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-problem-with-the-moderator-tomndebb/394423/33 "2007-03-04T04:14:19Z")
I love this kind of argument. The concept “normal” is totally artificial; an entirely manmade abstraction. But somehow it’s more logically acceptable than homosexuality . . . which happens in nature every day. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-problem-with-the-moderator-tomndebb/394423/34 "2007-03-04T04:19:36Z")
On a positive note, the ads on the bottom of the page include helpful legal and same-sex marriage sites. Maybe I’ll invite **Wildfire** MM\*\* to my wedding. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-problem-with-the-moderator-tomndebb/394423/35 "2007-03-04T04:23:53Z")
[QUOTE=lissener] somehow it’s more logically acceptable than homosexuality . . . which happens in nature every day. [/QUOTE] You just _had_ to bring [Lesbian Koalas](http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/2/story.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10425714) into this, didn’t you? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-problem-with-the-moderator-tomndebb/394423/36 "2007-03-04T04:32:31Z")
[QUOTE=Autolycus] If people really want to hear my opinions and see me do my best to try to explain and defend them, then that person is free to start a thread in GD. It’s not my cup of tea, but I made my bed and I’ll sleep in it, politefully and in GD, if that’s what people desire. [/QUOTE] I am interested in hearing your opinions on this, so I’ll be starting a thread in GD about this. I’ll link it to this post if I get back within the 5 minute window. If not, I’ll provide the link further in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-problem-with-the-moderator-tomndebb/394423/37 "2007-03-04T04:36:21Z")
[QUOTE=Heffalump and Roo] I am interested in hearing your opinions on this, so I’ll be starting a thread in GD about this. I’ll link it to this post if I get back within the 5 minute window. If not, I’ll provide the link further in this thread. [/QUOTE] Fuck. Well, I am a man of my word. Forgive me if I dont post right away, because I want to make sure I express myself in a crystal clear and non-offensive manner. The last thing I want to do is get pitted over a thread in the pit where I opened up my big fat mouth and went to GD, and then go back to the pit. or something like that… ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-problem-with-the-moderator-tomndebb/394423/38 "2007-03-04T04:44:34Z")
Well, I missed the 5 minute cut-off, but I did create the thread and it’s located here: [Homosexuality is unnatural](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8319486#post8319486) **Autolycus** , good luck with the debate. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-problem-with-the-moderator-tomndebb/394423/39 "2007-03-04T05:06:01Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Before you answer, let me caution you that God caused a virgin birth. [/QUOTE] Actually, he didn’t; “virgin” was a mistranslation by the Greek authors of the Septuagint, or pre-Christian translation, of the Hebrew _almah_ in Isiaiah: “Behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son…”. _Almah_ should have been rendered as “young woman”, but mistakenly became the Greek _parthenos_, meaning “woman who has not had sex”. To quote Richard Dawkins in **The Selfish Gene** , “It is widely accepted among Christian scholars that the story of the virgin birth of Jesus was a late interpolation, put in presumably by Greek-speaking disciple in order that the {mistranslated} prophecy should seem to be fulfilled.” ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-problem-with-the-moderator-tomndebb/394423/40 "2007-03-04T13:23:36Z")
Just to be clear, are you saying that it is a generally accepted Christian tenet that Jesus was the product of a sexual union between Joseph and Mary? I’m not arguing; I’ve just never heard that before. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-problem-with-the-moderator-tomndebb/394423.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-problem-with-the-moderator-tomndebb/394423.md?page=3)