# I have a rock-solid solution for those who want stricter gun control laws... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 27, 2019, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-rock-solid-solution-for-those-who-want-stricter-gun-control-laws/834590 "2019-05-27T09:06:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-rock-solid-solution-for-those-who-want-stricter-gun-control-laws/834590/41 "2019-05-28T06:30:25Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Do you not see the difference in volunteering a generic individual to embark on an ambitious mission of exploration for the benefit of all humanity versus volunteering a stigmatized minority groutp with a long history of oppression and exploitation to be cannon fodder in a deeply-entrenched political battle? > > I mean, if black people followed your advice and we took to the streets en mass with AK-47s, it is totally true that we might change the whole gun control debate. But we might also set back the struggle for black equality by 50 years, since suddenly we will be seen as a bunch of militant radicals instead of normal, everyday peace-loving citizens. I’m not sure me being discriminated against by law enforcement and “concerned neighbors” is worth you no longer having to have panic attacks over an active shooter hiding under your bed. Yes, there are a lot of differences between my plan to send someone to Mars and my plan for passing gun control laws. The analogy is that I don’t have to be personally involved in both plans even though they risk lives. Myself being at risk has nothing to do with the validity of the plan. I don’t have strong feelings either way on gun control, I’m just stating a strategy that would work if the goal is to enact stricter laws. I think the means to justify the ends aren’t even all that risky. It’s to prove a point that if you want to carry your rifle into Walmart, or pump your gas with a holstered gun, you have to realize that your image of upstanding citizen and scary minority both have those same rights. Right now, in my entire experience, I’ve only seen white males open carry. Does anyone else remember the night that all cable news channels were plastering a “WANTED!” photo of a black man carrying a gun at a Dallas protest? His picture was tweeted out by the Dallas Police Dept as a suspect in the shooting of 5 police officers? And it turned out he was just a dude excising his right to open-carry at a protest? And that he turned his rifle over to the police the second someone alerted him that his photo was being spread all over media while being suspected as a mass murderer? During the time period of the search, I remember posting that it would be crazy if this guy was completely innocent, that it would really solidify how racism takes over in intense moments. I was watching CNN at that night and I couldn’t believe how accepted it was across the every talking head on the network that, yeah, black man with a gun = legitimate suspect. Of course it turned out he was completely innocent and never mentioned again. I’m just saying, those that would really like stricter gun laws have a path to that. Here is a link to the night/incident I’m referring to: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/07/08/during-deadly-dallas-shooting-confusion-swirled-around-armed-man-carrying-a-rifle/?utm\_term=.2bb7e0e4dbc2](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/07/08/during-deadly-dallas-shooting-confusion-swirled-around-armed-man-carrying-a-rifle/?utm_term=.2bb7e0e4dbc2) ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-rock-solid-solution-for-those-who-want-stricter-gun-control-laws/834590/42 "2019-05-28T13:25:27Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > There was this thing called the ACA that drew quite a bit of criticism. > > I’m not familiar enough with other country’s histories and laws to comment on those. I do know that gun control in the US was founded in racism, and continued to be motivated by racism after that. Is it motivated by racism today? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-rock-solid-solution-for-those-who-want-stricter-gun-control-laws/834590/43 "2019-05-28T14:21:48Z")
> [@nate](#): > > Yes, there are a lot of differences between my plan to send someone to Mars and my plan for passing gun control laws. The analogy is that I don’t have to be personally involved in both plans even though they risk lives. Myself being at risk has nothing to do with the validity of the plan. > > I don’t have strong feelings either way on gun control, I’m just stating a strategy that would work if the goal is to enact stricter laws. I think the means to justify the ends aren’t even all that risky. It’s to prove a point that if you want to carry your rifle into Walmart, or pump your gas with a holstered gun, you have to realize that your image of upstanding citizen and scary minority both have those same rights. Right now, in my entire experience, I’ve only seen white males open carry. > Does anyone else remember the night that all cable news channels were plastering a “WANTED!” photo of a black man carrying a gun at a Dallas protest? His picture was tweeted out by the Dallas Police Dept as a suspect in the shooting of 5 police officers? And it turned out he was just a dude excising his right to open-carry at a protest? And that he turned his rifle over to the police the second someone alerted him that his photo was being spread all over media while being suspected as a mass murderer? > > During the time period of the search, I remember posting that it would be crazy if this guy was completely innocent, that it would really solidify how racism takes over in intense moments. I was watching CNN at that night and I couldn’t believe how accepted it was across the every talking head on the network that, yeah, black man with a gun = legitimate suspect. > > Of course it turned out he was completely innocent and never mentioned again. > > I’m just saying, those that would really like stricter gun laws have a path to that. > > Here is a link to the night/incident I’m referring to: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/07/08/during-deadly-dallas-shooting-confusion-swirled-around-armed-man-carrying-a-rifle/?utm\_term=.2bb7e0e4dbc2](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/07/08/during-deadly-dallas-shooting-confusion-swirled-around-armed-man-carrying-a-rifle/?utm_term=.2bb7e0e4dbc2) Isn’t it crazy how when the police are looking for a black guy with a rifle and military clothes walking around shooting people, one of the suspects is a black guy walking around with a rifle and military style clothes. I can only think racism is to blame. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-rock-solid-solution-for-those-who-want-stricter-gun-control-laws/834590/44 "2019-05-28T14:26:09Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Isn’t it crazy how when the police are looking for a black guy with a rifle and military clothes walking around shooting people, one of the suspects is a black guy walking around with a rifle and military style clothes. I can only think racism is to blame. isn’t it funny how “black guy” is personal description enough for some people? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-rock-solid-solution-for-those-who-want-stricter-gun-control-laws/834590/45 "2019-05-28T14:34:41Z")
Isn’t it funny how “with a rifle and military clothes” seems to be invisible to some people? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-rock-solid-solution-for-those-who-want-stricter-gun-control-laws/834590/46 "2019-05-28T14:39:07Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > The history of gun control in this county has always been rooted in racism. Those who supported gun control were motivated by racism. > > Minorities today represent a growing demographic of gun owners, and good for them. 😕 On SOME occasions racist whites pushed gun control laws because they were afraid of armed blacks. Therefore ALL those who advocate gun control are racists. 😕 Is this what you’re saying? Those who wanted to ban bump stocks after Stephen Paddock’s massacre were … racists? BTW, 36% of whites own guns. 24% of blacks own guns. 15% of Hispanics own guns. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-rock-solid-solution-for-those-who-want-stricter-gun-control-laws/834590/47 "2019-05-28T14:45:22Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Isn’t it funny how “with a rifle and military clothes” seems to be invisible to some people? Do you know what _isn’t_ funny? He was carrying legally(I thought you would _approve_ of that?), he was chatting with police when they brought him in, the police posted a picture of him saying he was a suspect, and lied about witnesses saying they saw him firing the weapon. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-rock-solid-solution-for-those-who-want-stricter-gun-control-laws/834590/48 "2019-05-28T16:01:34Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > Is it motivated by racism today? I’m sure it is in some instances. Like when Bloomberg says that in order to save lives, police should seize guns from male minorities between ages 15 and 25. And that one method to deal with the issue is to throw them up against the wall and frisk them. That seems pretty racist to me. But like many aspects of how our society is ordered, a lot of it is influenced by the vestiges of racism. So while particular aspects of gun control could be free from racist intent, its origin is racist. > [@septimus](#): > > 😕 On SOME occasions racist whites pushed gun control laws because they were afraid of armed blacks. Therefore ALL those who advocate gun control are racists. 😕 Is this what you’re saying? No, that’s not what I’m saying. It was only two sentences. From the veto (overridden) of the Freedmen’s Bureau, to Black Codes, to Dred Scott, to the CA concealed carry system to disarm Mexican and Chinese immigrants, to the Sullivan Act targeting the Irish, all of these historical gun control efforts were motivated by racism. The proposal in the OP suggests something similar - stoke fear using minorities to enact policies motivated by racism. It’s not new. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-rock-solid-solution-for-those-who-want-stricter-gun-control-laws/834590/49 "2019-05-28T16:31:24Z")
Maybe we can compromise - have a black guy show up at a rally carrying legally, and then [MSNBC can mis-identify him as white](https://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2009/aug/21/msnbcs-editing-truth/). Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-rock-solid-solution-for-those-who-want-stricter-gun-control-laws/834590/50 "2019-05-28T16:34:56Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Maybe we can compromise - have a black guy show up at a rally carrying legally, and then [MSNBC can mis-identify him as white](https://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2009/aug/21/msnbcs-editing-truth/). > [@](#): > > “A man at a pro-health care reform rally…wore a semiautomatic assault rifle on his shoulder and a pistol on his hip….there are questions about whether this has racial overtones….white people showing up with guns.” A lot of ellipses in that quote-can you give us a link to the _whole_ quote so that we can see what actually transpired? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-rock-solid-solution-for-those-who-want-stricter-gun-control-laws/834590/51 "2019-05-28T16:42:14Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Do you know what _isn’t_ funny? He was carrying legally(I thought you would _approve_ of that?), he was chatting with police when they brought him in, the police posted a picture of him saying he was a suspect, and lied about witnesses saying they saw him firing the weapon. He was a suspect, they detained him, talked to him, ascertained he had nothing to do with the situation and let him go. That is what they do to suspects who are cleared. ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-rock-solid-solution-for-those-who-want-stricter-gun-control-laws/834590/52 "2019-05-28T17:41:17Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > He was a suspect, they detained him, talked to him, ascertained he had nothing to do with the situation and let him go. That is what they do to suspects who are cleared. My point in mentioning the Dallas incident is the contemporaneous news coverage. It was a shocking illustration of instinctual racism. It made a stain in my memory. For those that don’t vividly remember this, the picture of the man went viral after the shootings. This was before the DPD posted it, this was before cable news showed it. It was picked up by cable news with the usual disclaimers, displayed along side repeating video of chaos/protests, and later on the DPD posted it to their twitter feed. And then it turns out he was completely innocent, but that’s not really the point. The reason it went viral, the reason it was picked up by cable news, the reason it was posted to DPD’s twitter, is because he was black and was open-carrying. Can you imagine a picture of a white man open-carrying at a crowded event where a shooting happens making the same impact? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-rock-solid-solution-for-those-who-want-stricter-gun-control-laws/834590/53 "2019-05-28T18:01:35Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > Wiki : > Investigations by the FBI and Special Counsel Robert Mueller resulted in indictments of … Irrelevant to this thread and a hijack. ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-rock-solid-solution-for-those-who-want-stricter-gun-control-laws/834590/54 "2019-05-28T18:10:27Z")
After the Dallas incident, Hughes was again reminded that black people should not open-carry: > [@](#): > > [[…](https://splinternews.com/how-being-wrongly-pegged-as-the-dallas-cop-sniper-chang-1796810958)] Craig’s neighborhood in Fort Worth is nice—classic suburban Texas, full of red brick houses and two car garages, and mid-aughts Toyota Corollas and Chevy Blazers parked in them. And when Hughes, his brother, and a few other black men with guns started patrolling, the police quickly showed up. The first officer on the scene, Hughes says, was “a coward.” He was nice to their faces—the cop asked the men how they were, then went back to his car. But as Hughes and the others arrived at Craig’s house, they were met with nearly a half-dozen other police cars—and the officers driving them had their AR-15’s pointed directly at the men. > > When he talks about it, Hughes sounds like he’s begun to come to grips with the question he’s been asking for the past year, even as he recalls having his life threatened by men with guns pointed at his head. > > “I was sitting there thinking, ‘What law have we broken?’” Hughes says, recalling the sight of Open Carry groups in the street. “Not one time have I ever seen that and they had guns pointed at them. But when we do it, we have to be scared for our life. What laws did we break?” > > Hughes was cuffed once more, and suffered an additional indignity—police checked the guns to ensure they hadn’t been stolen—before they let the men go. Hughes had his suspicion confirmed: He doesn’t think he’ll ever be able to carry his rifle in public without having his life threatened and his dignity attacked. And that actually seems to bring him some peace and clarity, because he knows he’s willing to do it, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-rock-solid-solution-for-those-who-want-stricter-gun-control-laws/834590/55 "2019-05-28T19:08:32Z")
Nobody should open carry. The only exceptions in my opinion are if you’re performing a JOB where you actually might need the gun, i.e. a cowboy or a forest ranger, or a professional security guard, or if you are serving as a security guard in some unofficial capacity (in which case the situation should be cleared in advance with the local law enforcement office.) Any other form of open carry is pointless bullshit. ESPECIALLY of a long gun. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-rock-solid-solution-for-those-who-want-stricter-gun-control-laws/834590/56 "2019-05-28T19:18:28Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > Nobody should open carry. The only exceptions in my opinion are if you’re performing a JOB where you actually might need the gun, i.e. a cowboy or a forest ranger, or a professional security guard, or if you are serving as a security guard in some unofficial capacity (in which case the situation should be cleared in advance with the local law enforcement office.) > > Any other form of open carry is pointless bullshit. ESPECIALLY of a long gun. I used to go hiking along a path where it went by a homeless camp, there had been assaults. That’s the only time I did open carry, and even in CA I think that’s still legal. The only other times i did open carry was when working at a gun store and at a gun show, where pretty much everyone openly carries a gun. I have no issues with handgun open carry, but carrying a AR15 is just stupid. ---
**Author:** ![sps49sd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@sps49sd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sps49sd)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-rock-solid-solution-for-those-who-want-stricter-gun-control-laws/834590/57 "2019-05-29T06:06:07Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I used to go hiking along a path where it went by a homeless camp, there had been assaults. That’s the only time I did open carry, and even in CA I think that’s still legal. The only other times i did open carry was when working at a gun store and at a gun show, where pretty much everyone openly carries a gun. > I have no issues with handgun open carry, but carrying a AR15 is just stupid. Part of the _Peruta_ arguments was: “…in October 2011 Governor Jerry Brown signed a bill that modifies the law on openly carrying an unloaded firearm to match the restrictions for openly carrying a loaded weapon,[6] effectively prohibiting (in all but limited circumstances) the open carry of firearms whether loaded or unloaded. (Cal. Pen. Code §§ 25850, 26155.)” per Wikipedia. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-rock-solid-solution-for-those-who-want-stricter-gun-control-laws/834590/58 "2019-05-29T16:32:55Z")
> [@nate](#): > > My point in mentioning the Dallas incident is the contemporaneous news coverage. It was a shocking illustration of instinctual racism. It made a stain in my memory. > > For those that don’t vividly remember this, the picture of the man went viral after the shootings. This was before the DPD posted it, this was before cable news showed it. It was picked up by cable news with the usual disclaimers, displayed along side repeating video of chaos/protests, and later on the DPD posted it to their twitter feed. And then it turns out he was completely innocent, but that’s not really the point. The reason it went viral, the reason it was picked up by cable news, the reason it was posted to DPD’s twitter, is because he was black and was open-carrying. Can you imagine a picture of a white man open-carrying at a crowded event where a shooting happens making the same impact? You must have an under active imagination if you can’t picture a white man carrying a rifle who matches the description of the suspect in a mass shooting being linked to the mass shooting. Think of the Jazmin Barnes shooting where police released a sketch of a white guy with a beard as a suspect and a picture of the pickup truck the suspect drove. The news all over the country immediately picked up the story and described the suspect and the pickup truck. It turned out to be mistaken identity but most of the people involved were acting in good faith because of a description given by victims. ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-rock-solid-solution-for-those-who-want-stricter-gun-control-laws/834590/59 "2019-05-29T22:01:43Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > You must have an under active imagination if you can’t picture a white man carrying a rifle who matches the description of the suspect in a mass shooting being linked to the mass shooting. > Think of the Jazmin Barnes shooting where police released a sketch of a white guy with a beard as a suspect and a picture of the pickup truck the suspect drove. The news all over the country immediately picked up the story and described the suspect and the pickup truck. It turned out to be mistaken identity but most of the people involved were acting in good faith because of a description given by victims. You have the order of events backwards. The photo was shared online for DPD to see. DPD then re-posted it. He matched the description of the suspect because they decided from the picture that he \*\*was \*\*the suspect. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-rock-solid-solution-for-those-who-want-stricter-gun-control-laws/834590/60 "2019-05-30T15:52:21Z")
> [@nate](#): > > You have the order of events backwards. The photo was shared online for DPD to see. DPD then re-posted it. He matched the description of the suspect because they decided from the picture that he \*\*was \*\*the suspect. No the shootings started at 8:45, the shooter was a black man carrying an AR-15, and wearing military style clothing. Because of the shooter’s movements it was thought that there were multiple shooters. At 10:45 there was a press conference with the chief of police where he mentions multiple shooters. At 10:52 they tweet the picture of the suspect. At 11:30 he turns himself in and at 1:00 they release him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-rock-solid-solution-for-those-who-want-stricter-gun-control-laws/834590.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-rock-solid-solution-for-those-who-want-stricter-gun-control-laws/834590.md?page=4)