# I have a sneaking suspicion that shooter in Detroit may have saved lives **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 19, 2013, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-sneaking-suspicion-that-shooter-in-detroit-may-have-saved-lives/674238 "2013-11-19T05:56:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-sneaking-suspicion-that-shooter-in-detroit-may-have-saved-lives/674238/121 "2013-11-22T15:37:21Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I don’t know how she was dressed, but I find it hard to imagine that she could sleep outside in Michigan in December without developing severe hypothermia I agree, it’s pretty much impossible to imagine her sleeping outside in December. Since it was, you know, November. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > it is easy to imagine she was desperately trying to pull open a door or a window with a very simple thought of getting inside for warmth, It’s easy to imagine all sorts of stuff. Perhaps while you’re at it you can imagine her being whisked around by pink unicorns for three hours before being deposited on Mr Trigger Happy’s porch. The rest of us will base our discussion on the knowledge and information that’s been made available; it’s sketchy enough as it is without just making shit up. Or do you have a cite that she tried to pull a door or window open? > [@Shodan](#): > > If Wafer chooses to ignore some one banging at his front door ( **and side door, and then again at his front door** , if that is how it happened), Cite for this? Not saying I don’t believe you; I just haven’t seen this reported anywhere except in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-sneaking-suspicion-that-shooter-in-detroit-may-have-saved-lives/674238/122 "2013-11-22T16:33:01Z")
I didn’t start the speculation; I was responding to _your_ speculation that she had been passed out. [ETA: this is in response to **Marley** a couple posts upthread.] Also not sure where you would get that _my_ speculation was an excuse for Wafer; if anything it is closer to an excuse or at least explanation for _her_ actions: that her likely being so cold\*, in combination with her drunkenness, would make her single-minded and desperate to get inside for warmth. \*Sure, we don’t _know_ how she was dressed; but if she was a wearing a hooded parka and snow pants or at least longjohns, she is unlike any 19-year-old drunk girl I have ever met, or seen, or heard of, or can imagine outside of a native reserve in northern Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-sneaking-suspicion-that-shooter-in-detroit-may-have-saved-lives/674238/123 "2013-11-22T17:07:39Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Cite for this? Not saying I don’t believe you; I just haven’t seen this reported anywhere except in this thread. Come to think of it, I am not sure where I got the idea. Maybe from the police saying there was no sign of forced entry at either door. In any event, I don’t have a cite, so disregard that part. There is no indication that McBride was anywhere except the front door. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-sneaking-suspicion-that-shooter-in-detroit-may-have-saved-lives/674238/124 "2013-11-22T17:17:28Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I didn’t start the speculation; I was responding to _your_ speculation that she had been passed out. [ETA: this is in response to **Marley** a couple posts upthread.] > > Also not sure where you would get that _my_ speculation was an excuse for Wafer; if anything it is closer to an excuse or at least explanation for _her_ actions: that her likely being so cold\*, in combination with her drunkenness, would make her single-minded and desperate to get inside for warmth. > > \*Sure, we don’t _know_ how she was dressed; but if she was a wearing a hooded parka and snow pants or at least longjohns, she is unlike any 19-year-old drunk girl I have ever met, or seen, or heard of, or can imagine outside of a native reserve in northern Canada. And if by some chance she was dressed in heavy clothing, how Wafer was suppose to know that she was a young woman banging on his door in the middle of the night trying to get inside rather than a young man (regardless of race, young men commit more crime and are potentially more dangerous than young women). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-sneaking-suspicion-that-shooter-in-detroit-may-have-saved-lives/674238/125 "2013-11-22T17:36:47Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I didn’t start the speculation; I was responding to _your_ speculation that she had been passed out. [ETA: this is in response to **Marley** a couple posts upthread.] Which I posted in response to other people discussing she was doing after the accident. **Musicat** had asked if maybe she kept drinking. > [@](#): > > Also not sure where you would get that _my_ speculation was an excuse for Wafer Because if she was trying to force her way into the house that generally supports the claim that he felt threatened and it might justify the shooting from a legal standpoint. I won’t press the issue, though, since that’s not where you’re going with this. > [@](#): > > that her likely being so cold\*, in combination with her drunkenness, would make her single-minded and desperate to get inside for warmth. > > \*Sure, we don’t _know_ how she was dressed; but if she was a wearing a hooded parka and snow pants or at least longjohns, she is unlike any 19-year-old drunk girl I have ever met, or seen, or heard of, or can imagine outside of a native reserve in northern Canada. Who wears a parka and snow pants when it’s 40 degrees out? We don’t know how she was dressed and we don’t really know how ‘with it’ she was at that point. We don’t know what she did at the porch, nor do we have any evidence that she tried to force her way in. > [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > And if by some chance she was dressed in heavy clothing, how Wafer was suppose to know that she was a young woman banging on his door in the middle of the night trying to get inside rather than a young man (regardless of race, young men commit more crime and are potentially more dangerous than young women). The thing about screen doors is you can see through them. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-sneaking-suspicion-that-shooter-in-detroit-may-have-saved-lives/674238/126 "2013-11-22T18:06:38Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The thing about screen doors is you can see through them. The thing about cold weather clothes is they make gender harder to determine on sight. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-sneaking-suspicion-that-shooter-in-detroit-may-have-saved-lives/674238/127 "2013-11-22T18:21:22Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > The thing about cold weather clothes is they make gender harder to determine on sight. They can, but not always. Wafer did tell police he’d shot a woman, but we don’t know if he knew that right away or if he went to check after shooting her. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-sneaking-suspicion-that-shooter-in-detroit-may-have-saved-lives/674238/128 "2013-11-22T20:31:57Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > They can, but not always. Wafer did tell police he’d shot a woman, but we don’t know if he knew that right away or if he went to check after shooting her. Well, not in his first 911 call, he didn’t - he says I shot ‘someone’. Don’t know that I’ve seen when he first indicated he knew he shot a woman. He gave his address and hung up even as the dispatcher was asking what city he was calling from (!) Yes, you can see through screen doors…but it’s kind of dark out at 3-4am. I wonder if his porch had a working light (our porch, for example, is automated to turn on and stay on if someone’s near the doorway area). Still am flabbergasted that he only thought to call 911 \*after \*shooting someone. Surely calling the cops and asking for back up Real Soon Now would be your first instinct if you thought your house was under attack? I honestly don’t understand it. What if there was more than one intruder? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-sneaking-suspicion-that-shooter-in-detroit-may-have-saved-lives/674238/129 "2013-11-22T20:36:21Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Well, not in his first 911 call, he didn’t - he says I shot ‘someone’. Don’t know that I’ve seen when he first indicated he knew he shot a woman. He gave his address and hung up even as the dispatcher was asking what city he was calling from (!) Not on the first call, no. But a couple of minutes later the dispatcher says the dead person is probably a black woman, and I’m assuming she got that information from Wafer. But we don’t know if he realized she was a black woman at the time he shot her or if he looked afterward. I’m not sure if his hanging up means anything. I think most people know that 911 can trace your phone calls. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-sneaking-suspicion-that-shooter-in-detroit-may-have-saved-lives/674238/130 "2013-11-22T20:41:22Z")
And regarding her clothing: > [@](#): > > The young woman, who is described in the report as 5 feet, 4 inches tall, was wearing a blue jacket, black undershirt, black pants and a pair of white socks. ‘jacket’ doesn’t sound to me like ‘big heavy parka’; and in any event weather in the 40s isn’t really heavy coat weather unless you expect to be outside for several hours. Still think what she was wearing is mostly irrelevant. What might play at trial however is her height - 5’4" doesn’t exactly conjure up images of big men about to pound their way into your home… ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-sneaking-suspicion-that-shooter-in-detroit-may-have-saved-lives/674238/131 "2013-11-22T21:03:55Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Who wears a parka and snow pants when it’s 40 degrees out? Indeed. But that’s what you would need to be able to lie on the ground or on concrete for hours in 40° weather without getting hyperthermia, methinks. I think it’s much more likely that she was moving the whole time, and tried various houses with the same trick and finally found the one with a shotgun toting spaz inside. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-sneaking-suspicion-that-shooter-in-detroit-may-have-saved-lives/674238/132 "2013-11-22T21:13:21Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Well, not in his first 911 call, he didn’t - he says I shot ‘someone’. Don’t know that I’ve seen when he first indicated he knew he shot a woman. He gave his address and hung up even as the dispatcher was asking what city he was calling from (!) > > Yes, you can see through screen doors…but it’s kind of dark out at 3-4am. I wonder if his porch had a working light (our porch, for example, is automated to turn on and stay on if someone’s near the doorway area). > > Still am flabbergasted that he only thought to call 911 \*after \*shooting someone. Surely calling the cops and asking for back up Real Soon Now would be your first instinct if you thought your house was under attack? I honestly don’t understand it. What if there was more than one intruder? In many places calling 911 is not your first instinct because the time it will take first responders to arrive is time enough for an intruder to kill your entire family. Considering how financially strapped Michigan is that could easily have crossed this man’s mind. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-sneaking-suspicion-that-shooter-in-detroit-may-have-saved-lives/674238/133 "2013-11-22T21:38:59Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Indeed. But that’s what you would need to be able to lie on the ground or on concrete for hours in 40° weather without getting hyperthermia, methinks. Youthinks? > [@](#): > > I think it’s much more likely that she was moving the whole time, and tried various houses with the same trick and finally found the one with a shotgun toting spaz inside. Ok. That’s also a theory. I think if she’d attracted any other attention we would have heard about it by now, but maybe not. > [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > In many places calling 911 is not your first instinct because the time it will take first responders to arrive is time enough for an intruder to kill your entire family. This seems like the kind of fantasy that leads people to shoot first and think later: ‘Maybe it’s not someone who is lost or even a burglar- maybe it’s a pack of murderous ninja werewolves! I don’t have a minute to call 911, I need to fire away!’ Wafer was already awake and standing near the door with a gun, so he was prepared if someone had broken in after he called 911. Of course rather than retreat and avoid the danger of someone who could’ve broken in and killed his entire family :rolleyes:, he went to the door and opened it. There’s no place where this is more sensible than calling 911 first. ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-sneaking-suspicion-that-shooter-in-detroit-may-have-saved-lives/674238/134 "2013-11-22T22:04:53Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > This seems like the kind of fantasy that leads people to shoot first and think later: ‘Maybe it’s not someone who is lost or even a burglar- maybe it’s a pack of murderous ninja werewolves! I don’t have a minute to call 911, I need to fire away!’ Wafer was already awake and standing near the door with a gun, so he was prepared if someone had broken in after he called 911. Of course rather than retreat and avoid the danger of someone who could’ve broken in and killed his entire family :rolleyes:, he went to the door and opened it. There’s no place where this is more sensible than calling 911 first. I’m trying to imagine this scenario in my house. I wake up and there is someone banging on my door and hollering. Option A: I’m frightened, so I stay inside and call 911. I get my weapon, hide behind something, and prepare to repel boarders. Option B: I get my weapon, and I come downstairs to investigate. (Do I have a peephole? I don’t know.) So I open the front door and there is a crazy person threatening me. Maybe I can close the door and go to the phone and call 911 and hope they show up in time (becuase when seconds count, the police are just minutes away). Maybe I retreat into the house and start screaming threats (“Enter at your own risk!”). Maybe something else happens. I guess I just have troubling imagining living some place where I choose option A. I would think that it’s the “it’s a pack of ninjas” mentality that causes you to call 911 before investigating. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-sneaking-suspicion-that-shooter-in-detroit-may-have-saved-lives/674238/135 "2013-11-22T23:42:34Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > In many places calling 911 is not your first instinct because the time it will take first responders to arrive is time enough for an intruder to kill your entire family. Considering how financially strapped Michigan is that could easily have crossed this man’s mind. It’s Dearborn Heights, not Detroit. It’s not a particularly violent place. Crime rate lower than the national average. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-sneaking-suspicion-that-shooter-in-detroit-may-have-saved-lives/674238/136 "2013-11-23T00:25:03Z")
But she was black. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-sneaking-suspicion-that-shooter-in-detroit-may-have-saved-lives/674238/137 "2013-11-27T06:58:28Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > In many places calling 911 is not your first instinct because the time it will take first responders to arrive is time enough for an intruder to kill your entire family. Considering how financially strapped Michigan is that could easily have crossed this man’s mind. 'OMG someone’s knocking at the door! It must be a dirty evil criminal, 'cause everyone knows they knock on the door as part of their invasion plans! I’d better call 911…oh, wait, the paper last week said spending on public services was down 10% vs last year. That means a 10% increase in response time. They won’t be here in time. That means…RAMBO MODE! **opens door BLAM** :rolleyes: I guess nobody would ever call 911 then, right? Meanwhile - and a rather different case in all sorts of ways - but anyway, further evidence that knocking on the door can be hazardous to your health when guns are involved. > **[Police: Florida woman kills daughter holding baby, mistook her for boyfriend...](https://edition.cnn.com/2013/11/26/us/florida-mother-shoots-daughter/index.html?hpt=hp_t3)** > > A Florida woman allegedly shot her daughter to death Monday because she thought the person knocking on her door was a boyfriend she had just fought, police said. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-sneaking-suspicion-that-shooter-in-detroit-may-have-saved-lives/674238.md?page=6)