# I have a VERY important question about Bin Laden and the 9/11 attacks **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2004, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-very-important-question-about-bin-laden-and-the-9-11-attacks/233863 "2004-03-12T06:46:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Starguard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Starguard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starguard)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-very-important-question-about-bin-laden-and-the-9-11-attacks/233863/1 "2004-03-12T06:46:35Z")
I receintly got involved in a converstation that had really got my curiosity going. When the 9/11 attacks occured, the media anounced almost immediately that they knew **EXACTLY** who was responsible. My question is: “If the CIA knew about Bin Laden and the potential threat he posed to the American Public, how come no one did anything to stop him **BEFORE** this disaster occured”? Do you think its possible that the U.S. Government intentionally allowed these attacks to be carried out so they could use it as an excuse to galvanize the American public together (the same way the Pearl Harbor attacks of WWII did) for an invasion of the Middle East for its oil? There are people within out society that strongly believe that the US had been looking for an excuse (any excuse) to invade the middle east every since the late 1960’s so it could sieze both its oil and all other natural resources, and finally found ( or created ) one with Bin Ladin and Saddam Hussien. Now before you all respond to this, I want you to know that I myself am **not** accusing the Govt or anyone else of anything, but this receint war in Iraq has left alot of questions unanswered: #1 ) Why did we place Bin Ladin and Afganistan on the backburner and attack Iraq when Saddam was just basically sitting there minding his own business. Whatever he was doing within his own country really wasn’t any of our concern. I was lead to believe that during the FIRST Irqai war, our only concern was to get them out of Kuwait…period, nothing more. #2) Why did out Govt state that Saddam had Weapons of Mass Destruction and claim to have enough evidence of their existance to start an invasion…but yet these weapons **still** have not been found…(and probably never will). My guess is that they never really existed in the first place. If evidence ever surfaces that our own Govt deliberately allowed those 9/11 attacks to occur simply to “justify” an invasion of the Middle East for its oil, that to me would make President Bush one of the BIGGEST War criminals of the 21st century. :mad: I really wat you all to chime in on this because I REALLY need to find acceptable answers to these questions. ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-very-important-question-about-bin-laden-and-the-9-11-attacks/233863/2 "2004-03-12T07:02:18Z")
Boy! I doubt you’re going to find any definitive acceptable answers to your questions here… I’ll take a guess at number 2, though: First, Iraq DID have WMDs… at least in the past (they were used against Iran and the Kurds), and where they went to I don’t know. They may have been destroyed, or moved, etc. Some people in the US government (and, let’s not forget, many other governments) honestly believed that Iraq had WMDs right before the war, and was aggressively trying to improve them and add more. Believing this, they cherry-picked intelligence. They played up intel which tended to support their beliefs, and ignored intel which tended to point the other way. This is a classic human folly. Saddam, by the way, didn’t help at all by seeming to make the efforts of the UN weapons inspectors as difficult as possible. He sure made it seem as if he were hiding something! I won’t venture a guess as to your first question. I suspect this will be moved to GD, and you’ll probably get lots of guesses there. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-very-important-question-about-bin-laden-and-the-9-11-attacks/233863/3 "2004-03-12T08:50:10Z")
> [@Starguard](#): > > I receintly got involved in a converstation that had really got my curiosity going. When the 9/11 attacks occured, the media anounced almost immediately that they knew **EXACTLY** who was responsible. I think you’re misremembering things. IIRC, the identity of the 9/11 hijackers weren’t known until several hours after the attacks, which is plenty of time to go through the airlines’ passenger lists and run the names through various intel databases. > [@](#): > > Do you think its possible that the U.S. Government intentionally allowed these attacks to be carried out so they could use it as an excuse to galvanize the American public together (the same way the Pearl Harbor attacks of WWII did) for an invasion of the Middle East for its oil? It’s not entirely impossible; the neo-conservative group PNAC (Project for a New American Century) has been suggesting since the mid-90s that a “Pearl Harbor-like” event could be used to justify an invasion of Iraq to secure its oil reserves. Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, and Donald Rumsfeld are just some of the more reknown PNAC members. And IIRC, CIA Director George Tenet stopped taking commercial air flights around July-August of 2001, out of concern that terrorists might try to do something with a hijacked jet. > [@](#): > > #1 ) Why did we place Bin Ladin and Afganistan on the backburner and attack Iraq when Saddam was just basically sitting there minding his own business. Whatever he was doing within his own country really wasn’t any of our concern. I was lead to believe that during the FIRST Irqai war, our only concern was to get them out of Kuwait…period, nothing more. Yep. The first Gulf War was fought under the guidance of the United Nations, and US military action was limited to getting the Iraqis out of Kuwait. That’s why George Bush Sr. didn’t march the troops into Baghdad. > [@](#): > > #2) Why did out Govt state that Saddam had Weapons of Mass Destruction and claim to have enough evidence of their existance to start an invasion…but yet these weapons **still** have not been found…(and probably never will). Oil, oil, and more oil. What else? > [@](#): > > If evidence ever surfaces that our own Govt deliberately allowed those 9/11 attacks to occur simply to “justify” an invasion of the Middle East for its oil, that to me would make President Bush one of the BIGGEST War criminals of the 21st century. :mad: This is not a new conclusion; hang around Great Debates sometime. > [@](#): > > I really wat you all to chime in on this because I REALLY need to find acceptable answers to these questions. You mean “acceptable” as something _besides_ “the Bush Administration has proven itself to be a pack of lying immoral weasels”? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-very-important-question-about-bin-laden-and-the-9-11-attacks/233863/4 "2004-03-12T08:53:46Z")
> [@Astroboy14](#): > > Saddam, by the way, didn’t help at all by seeming to make the efforts of the UN weapons inspectors as difficult as possible. He sure made it seem as if he were hiding something! Saddam gave the inspectors unfettered access to his palaces and the countryside; for a megalomaniacal dictator, that’s pretty darn cooperative. Though I still maintain he deliberately cultivated the image of “I might still be hiding something” as self-defense – if Iraq’s neighbors _knew_ (via the UN inspectors) that Iraq didn’t have WMDs or any effective defenses, they’d have steamrolled into Baghdad themselves and settled a few old grudges… ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-very-important-question-about-bin-laden-and-the-9-11-attacks/233863/5 "2004-03-12T11:09:44Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > I think you’re misremembering things. IIRC, the identity of the 9/11 hijackers weren’t known until several hours after the attacks, which is plenty of time to go through the airlines’ passenger lists and run the names through various intel databases. IIRC, it was worse than that - incorrect photographs were released to the press, which showed wholly innocent people. AND it took some time for the invasion of Afghanistan to become the ‘response’ - talk of Iraq was as dominant as Bin Ladin in the few days after the attacks. ---
**Author:** ![epepke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9de0a6/32.png) [@epepke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epepke)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-very-important-question-about-bin-laden-and-the-9-11-attacks/233863/6 "2004-03-12T12:00:23Z")
> [@Starguard](#): > > I receintly got involved in a converstation that had really got my curiosity going. When the 9/11 attacks occured, the media anounced almost immediately that they knew **EXACTLY** who was responsible. My question is: “If the CIA knew about Bin Laden and the potential threat he posed to the American Public, how come no one did anything to stop him **BEFORE** this disaster occured”? Actually, people tried, such as Clinton sending a few missiles into Afghanistan, which was widely criticized by the left as unconscionable. As for not predicting the 9/11 attacks, I think it has something to do with the CIA being for shit and the President being a few tacos short of a combination platter. > [@](#): > > #1 ) Why did we place Bin Ladin and Afganistan on the backburner and attack Iraq when Saddam was just basically sitting there minding his own business. Whatever he was doing within his own country really wasn’t any of our concern. I was lead to believe that during the FIRST Irqai war, our only concern was to get them out of Kuwait…period, nothing more. Because Bush always wanted to invade Iraq. He said so during his campaign. > [@](#): > > #2) Why did out Govt state that Saddam had Weapons of Mass Destruction and claim to have enough evidence of their existance to start an invasion…but yet these weapons **still** have not been found…(and probably never will). Becuase the CIA is for shit. > [@](#): > > My guess is that they never really existed in the first place. Of course they existed. They used them against the Kurds. Whether they had any left over is a different story. > [@](#): > > If evidence ever surfaces that our own Govt deliberately allowed those 9/11 attacks to occur simply to “justify” an invasion of the Middle East for its oil, that to me would make President Bush one of the BIGGEST War criminals of the 21st century. Conspiracy theories like this assume despite all available evidence that people are smart. > [@](#): > > I really wat you all to chime in on this because I REALLY need to find acceptable answers to these questions. To take a page from Frank Zappa, people are bad, stupid, and incompetent. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-very-important-question-about-bin-laden-and-the-9-11-attacks/233863/7 "2004-03-12T12:13:26Z")
> [@Starguard](#): > > Why did we place Bin Ladin and Afganistan on the backburner and attack Iraq when Saddam was just basically sitting there minding his own business. Whatever he was doing within his own country really wasn’t any of our concern. I was lead to believe that during the FIRST Irqai war, our only concern was to get them out of Kuwait…period, nothing more. The west was courting the Taliban - firstly it was being paid to minimize the growing of opium poppies to cut heroin reaching the west; secondly because various oil companies, such as Unocal, were in negotiation with the Taliban to build a trans-Afghan pipeline to bring oil from Turkmenistan to the Indian Ocean. They were even treated to a [visit to Texas](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/west_asia/37021.stm) to talk about it. Guess who was governor of Texas at the time…? ---
**Author:** ![Starguard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Starguard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starguard)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-very-important-question-about-bin-laden-and-the-9-11-attacks/233863/8 "2004-03-12T12:18:59Z")
Thats just downright Horrible :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-very-important-question-about-bin-laden-and-the-9-11-attacks/233863/9 "2004-03-12T14:06:31Z")
> [@](#): > > When the 9/11 attacks occured, the media anounced almost immediately that they knew EXACTLY who was responsible. That sure isn’t how I remember it. Bin Laden’s name did eventually come up because only so many groups were capable of such a large-scale attack and it was known they wanted to do something. > [@](#): > > #2) Why did out Govt state that Saddam had Weapons of Mass Destruction and claim to have enough evidence of their existance to start an invasion…but yet these weapons still have not been found…(and probably never will). My guess is that they never really existed in the first place. I think the people in charge believed what they wanted to believe and ignored the evidence to the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-very-important-question-about-bin-laden-and-the-9-11-attacks/233863/10 "2004-03-12T14:15:02Z")
FWIW… I remember a short documentary about media coverage of 9-11 shortly after the attacks, and the first mention of a possible terrorist link to “the accident” was made by Fox News about a minute before the other plane hit the second tower (after that, terrorism was quite apparant and everybody was saying “terrorists!”) OBL was mentioned very soon after the second impact, but that isn’t unreasonable given that he tried to blow up these buildings before. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-very-important-question-about-bin-laden-and-the-9-11-attacks/233863/11 "2004-03-12T14:27:53Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > FWIW… > > I remember a short documentary about media coverage of 9-11 shortly after the attacks, and the first mention of a possible terrorist link to “the accident” was made by Fox News about a minute before the other plane hit the second tower (after that, terrorism was quite apparant and everybody was saying “terrorists!”) OBL was mentioned very soon after the second impact, but that isn’t unreasonable given that he tried to blow up these buildings before. Er… that last sentence was all screwed up, me putting two different lines of thought together in one completely incorrect declarative statement. :rolleyes: Let me try again: “OBL was mentioned very soon after the second impact, but that isn’t unreasonable given that the WTC has already been proved a target for Islamic terror organizations.” ---
**Author:** ![bookbuster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9bd4f/32.png) [@bookbuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bookbuster)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-very-important-question-about-bin-laden-and-the-9-11-attacks/233863/12 "2004-03-12T17:59:03Z")
> [@Starguard](#): > > Thats just downright Horrible :mad: I know what you are going through, I too went through a harsh period of disillusion. When you start to form these views, you may find yourself in a minority in many situations. This can make you feel lonely and maybe even crazy (am I the only one??) Surround yourself with the views of other smart people, read a lot of books, form your opinions slowly and carefully. You are not crazy, you are just a critical thinker! Do you really beleive that the U.S. of A., the country with the most wealth, weapons in the history of human beings… The country whose cultural trends influence all others, the country on the forefront of every intellectual debate and scientific acheivement… The country that literally tells the U.N. when its decisions matter, and when they do not… Do you really beleive that this amazing country does not also happen to be the single greatest propaganda machine in the history of society? ---
**Author:** ![bookbuster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9bd4f/32.png) [@bookbuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bookbuster)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-very-important-question-about-bin-laden-and-the-9-11-attacks/233863/13 "2004-03-12T20:30:38Z")
Remember the simple double-think they fed us about the Afghanistan war? And throughout the Iraq war? “We are going to war to find Osama bin Laden and destroy his Al-Qaida network, in response to his guilt for the Setp. 11 crimes.” **becomes clear this is not happening** “This war wasn’t about Osama bin Ladin. Don’t you know how cruel the Taliban regime is? We started this war to free the people of Afghanistan.” **but you said-** “But nothing. Here are some primetime interviews with the Afghani people, here is some video footage of them playing instruments in the streets. The streets! Doesn’t make you happy to see people freed from an oppresive evil regime like the Taliban?” **yes, but that’s not really the poi-** “Oh shutup, let’s talk about something else. Did you know that it is certainly within the realm of all possiblites that Osama bin Ladin had connections with Saddam Hussein?” **really? is there any evidence of that claim?** “Well, let’s not rule out the possiblity that he has WMD as well” **do you have any evidence of that claim?** “Look at this primetime footage of 40 people knocking over a statue. Look at how happy they are.” ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-very-important-question-about-bin-laden-and-the-9-11-attacks/233863/14 "2004-03-12T20:38:58Z")
One of the flight attendents gave the seat numbers of the five hijackers in the plane that contained Mohammed Atta, so they had the names of suspects by the time the first plane hit the WTC; and they soon found his car with his will and Koran in the parking lot of Logan airport. So it was made clear pretty fast who had done it in that case; the link to AQ came a little later. [http://www.nyobserver.com/pages/story.asp?ID=8612](http://www.nyobserver.com/pages/story.asp?ID=8612) > [@](#): > > “Amy, this is Michael Woodward.” The American Airlines flight service manager had been friends with Sweeney for a decade, so he didn?t have to waste any time verifying that this wasn?t a hoax. “Michael, this plane has been hijacked,” Ms. Sweeney repeated. Calmly, she gave him the seat locations of three of the hijackers: 9D, 9G and 10B. She said they were all of Middle Eastern descent, and one spoke English very well. Now, the article is pretty critical of some ineptitude on the part of the authorities, but remember we weren’t in habit of shooting down planes. And FTR Bush has said quite often that Saddam had no link to 9/11. If people are going to be so stupid as to never listen I don’t see how it’s his fault. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-a-very-important-question-about-bin-laden-and-the-9-11-attacks/233863/15 "2004-03-12T21:18:01Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#): > > And FTR Bush has said quite often that Saddam had no link to 9/11. If people are going to be so stupid as to never listen I don’t see how it’s his fault. Bush and Cheney might not have directly said there were ties between Saddam and _al Qaeda,_ but they’ve definitely implied (and continue to imply) there was, and encouraged people to believe there was one even if they couldn’t say it outright: > [@](#): > > “Evidence from intelligence sources, secret communications and statements by people now in custody reveal that Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members of Al Qaida.” > –George W. Bush, State of the Union Address, 1/28/2003 > [@](#): > > CLARK: “There was a concerted effort during the fall of 2001, starting immediately after 9/11, to pin 9/11 and the terrorism problem on Saddam Hussein.” > RUSSERT: “By who? Who did that?” > CLARK: “Well, it came from the White House, it came from people around the White House. It came from all over. I got a call on 9/11. I was on CNN, and I got a call at my home saying, ‘You got to say this is connected. This is state-sponsored terrorism. **This has to be connected to Saddam Hussein.** ’ I said, ‘But–I’m willing to say it, but what’s your evidence?’ And I never got any evidence.” > –_Meet the Press,_ 6/15/2003 > [@](#): > > “The war on terror, you can’t distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam > when you talk about the war on terror.” > –George W. Bush, [9/25/2002](http://usembassy.state.gov/tokyo/wwwhse1735.html) > [@](#): > > “So, yes, there are contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda. We know that Saddam Hussein has a long history with terrorism in general. And there are some al Qaeda personnel who found refuge in Baghdad…There clearly are contacts between al Qaeda and Iraq that can be documented.” > –Condolezza Rice, [_Newshour with Jim Lehrer,_](http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/09/25/us.iraq.alqaeda/) 9/26/2002 > [@](#): > > “Iraq and al Qaeda have discussed safe haven opportunities in Iraq, reciprocal nonaggression discussions. We have what we consider to be credible evidence that al Qaeda leaders have sought contacts in Iraq who could help them acquire weapons of mass destruction capabilities.” > –Donald Rumsfeld, [9/27/2002](http://www.lunaville.org/WMD/Iraq%20and%20al%20Qaeda%20have%20discussed%20safe%20haven%20opportunities%20in%20Iraq,%20reciprocal%20nonaggression%20discussions.) > [@](#): > > **Poll Says Most Americans Believe Saddam-9/11 Link Has Been Proven** > WASHINGTON - Seven in 10 people in a poll say the Bush administration implied that Iraq and its leader Saddam Hussein were involved in the Sept. 11 attacks against the United States. > –Associated Press, [7/1/2003](http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0701-05.htm) > [@](#): > > “There’s overwhelming evidence there was a connection between Al Qaeda and the Iraqi government. I am very confident that there was an established relationship there.” > –Dick Cheney, NPR, 11/22/2003