# I Have Become A Fan Of Silent Movies **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 19, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-become-a-fan-of-silent-movies/514389 "2009-10-19T20:51:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-become-a-fan-of-silent-movies/514389/1 "2009-10-19T20:51:22Z")
But I have a few questions: 1. Knowing their dialogue cannot be heard, did the actors still actually adhere to the script or were they just moving their lips or just saying stuff? I have _tried_ to “pick up” on some of the things being said, but until that placard shows on the screen, I have no clue. 2. That “placard” (or whatever it’s called). Because of the speed of the film, those things don’t stay up long enough to read unless you have the remote and can pause it. 3. The music: Is that the original soundtrack, or was it dubbed in after? (With the correct sheet music, of course). 4. My favorite, I suppose, is everyone’s: _Metropolis_. I have been meaning to get the Rick Wakeman “soundtrack”, but cannot seem to remember to look for it. I was hoping to find a used version on Amazon. I like the melodramas, where, at end, the male or female lead dies. Seems to me, they had to do so much with so little, that almost everything you see on screen was exagerrated. Thanks Quasi ---
**Author:** ![The\_Piranha\_Brothers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aca169/32.png) [@The\_Piranha\_Brothers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Piranha_Brothers)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-become-a-fan-of-silent-movies/514389/2 "2009-10-19T21:18:50Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#): > > But I have a few questions: > > 1. Knowing their dialogue cannot be heard, did the actors still actually adhere to the script or were they just moving their lips or just saying stuff? I have _tried_ to “pick up” on some of the things being said, but until that placard shows on the screen, I have no clue. > > 2. That “placard” (or whatever it’s called). Because of the speed of the film, those things don’t stay up long enough to read unless you have the remote and can pause it. > > 3. The music: Is that the original soundtrack, or was it dubbed in after? (With the correct sheet music, of course). > > 4. My favorite, I suppose, is everyone’s: _Metropolis_. I have been meaning to get the Rick Wakeman “soundtrack”, but cannot seem to remember to look for it. I was hoping to find a used version on Amazon. > > I like the melodramas, where, at end, the male or female lead dies. > > Seems to me, they had to do so much with so little, that almost everything you see on screen was exagerrated. > > Thanks > > Quasi The answers to most of these questions of course depend on which film we’re talking about! The speed, by the way, is sometimes wrong. I think that what you call placard may be known as intertitles or titles or simply dialogue, but I may be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-become-a-fan-of-silent-movies/514389/3 "2009-10-19T21:24:53Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#): > > 1. Knowing their dialogue cannot be heard, did the actors still actually adhere to the script or were they just moving their lips or just saying stuff? I have _tried_ to “pick up” on some of the things being said, but until that placard shows on the screen, I have no clue. Sometimes. If it was a silent adaptation of a show popular from the stage, then they probably were simply reciting all the dialogue. Some directors (Stroheim, for example) also insisted on having dialogue performed to enhance the realism of the scene. But it certainly wasn’t always the case. > [@](#): > > 1. That “placard” (or whatever it’s called). Because of the speed of the film, those things don’t stay up long enough to read unless you have the remote and can pause it. This wasn’t always true–intertitles were often trimmed back to save film (or space, for later archival purposes) after a film’s run was complete, and sometimes the projectionist could even vary the frame rate on the projector to slow down the title sequence to make it last longer (though I won’t argue this was common). Essentially, the brief time you currently have is almost certainly not the experience someone had when originally viewing the film. > [@](#): > > 1. The music: Is that the original soundtrack, or was it dubbed in after? (With the correct sheet music, of course). Very few scores were specifically written for a film’s release. Most theater’s organists just made it up as they went along and/or cribbed from popular music and motifs of the time (though the distributor might often recommend certain song selections). There were some major productions that had scores commissioned specifically for them, and those often get folded into a DVD restoration effort, but more often than not, the score you’re hearing is the invention of someone fairly recent and not original in the sense that you’re thinking. > [@](#): > > 1. My favorite, I suppose, is everyone’s: _Metropolis_. I have been meaning to get the Rick Wakeman “soundtrack”, but cannot seem to remember to look for it. I was hoping to find a used version on Amazon. Yeah, licensing rights for the songs made it difficult to re-release commercially. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-become-a-fan-of-silent-movies/514389/4 "2009-10-19T21:32:23Z")
I’ve always loved silent movies. I had a friend in grad school who was deaf and read lips, and he told me that what their lips were saying usually did NOT match the title cards. Silent movies were filmed at 24 frames per second.\* Later, the standard was changed to 32 frames per second, so silent films projected at “standard” speed appear to be moving too fast. That works OK for some comedies, but … The music found on DVDs, it varies by DVD. Some silent movies came to the theatre with their own score, so that the pianist could play the same music in every theater. And some DVDshave been lovingly re-created with an authentic sound track based on that score. Others, however, are put together as cheaply as possible, with dreadful soundtracks. Or with some classical music (hence, no need to pay royalties) that just plays along and doesn’t fit the action at all. Then there are those in the middle, with newly created scores. We were watching one the other month (I’ve forgot which one) that basically had about ten measures of some little ditty, repeated over and over and over and over and over… _ad nauseam._ We wound up turning off the soundtrack. - Actually, the earliest silent films were filmed/projected at various speeds. The standardized rate of 24 frames/second came in at some point in silent film development. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-become-a-fan-of-silent-movies/514389/5 "2009-10-19T21:37:39Z")
Oh, and of course, welcome to the fold! If I had to list my favorite silent films, I’d have to go with (in addition to _Metropolis_, which you already mentioned): **USA** \*The General, Seven Chances, Sherlock Jr., Steamboat Bill Jr., \* and _Our Hospitality_, all with (and by) Buster Keaton–plus _One Week_ is my favorite silent comedy short, too. _The Freshman_ and _The Kid Brother_ with Harold Lloyd _The Gold Rush_ by Chaplin (though I like the semi-talkie _Modern Times_ better) _The Wind_ - an amazing film, w/Lillian Gish _Greed_ - the epic by Stroheim _Sunrise_ - the masterpiece by Murnau **Foreign** Germany: _Pandora’s Box_ w/the magnetic Louise Brooks France: The hilarious _The Italian Straw Hat_, the stunning _The Lighthouse Keepers_, and the unforgettable _The Passion of Joan of Arc_ by Dreyer–plus _Un Chien Andalou_ by Luis Bunuel & Salvador Dali. Japan: The intertitle-free horror film _A Page of Madness_ and the funny and touching _I Was Born, But…_ by the incomparable Ozu Russia: _Potemkin_ still holds up remarkably well, but I like _Strike_ (also by Eisenstein) and _Earth_ better–plus, _Man with a Movie Camera_ is still probably the best movie about movies ever made. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-become-a-fan-of-silent-movies/514389/6 "2009-10-19T22:19:13Z")
_Nosferatu_ is probably my favorite silent film. My handicap with silent cinema is that it’s pre-Method acting, so I consider most of the performances to be _far_ overdone and melodramatic. _Nosferatu_ has hammy acting but it’s counterbalanced by a gripping performance by Schreck in the title role and an atmosphere of dread and unease it would be very difficult to replicate in a talky, let alone a color film. I also absolutely love the Swedish film _[Häxan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A4xan)_ (The Witches), a fake documentary about witches and witchcraft that has some amazingly effective special effects. There is a version with narration by William S. Burroughs and an acid jazz soundtrack that I have only seen a small part of and I’m dying to see again. And we cannot forget the surrealist masterpiece _[The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cabinet_of_Dr._Caligari)_, the father of a thousand music videos. 😉 The stunning visual style is an absolute joy. Note well an advantage of silence: Translating films is a lot easier when all of the dialogue is on cards that can be on screen for as long as they need to be, as opposed to being spoken at a fixed rate judged to be effective for a given language and point in the film. Neither subtitles nor dubbing is as seamless as just translating the intertitles. ---
**Author:** ![infinitii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e8c25b/32.png) [@infinitii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/infinitii)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-become-a-fan-of-silent-movies/514389/7 "2009-10-19T22:36:12Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > I also absolutely love the Swedish film _[Häxan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A4xan)_ (The Witches), a fake documentary about witches and witchcraft that has some amazingly effective special effects. There is a version with narration by William S. Burroughs and an acid jazz soundtrack that I have only seen a small part of and I’m dying to see again. Both versions of Häxan are on the Criterion Collection DVD. My favourite silent films include: Murnau’s “Faust” – The first special effects extravaganza Gance’s “Napoleon”, “La Roue”, and “J’Accuse” – My opinion is that Abel Gance was the most innovative filmmaker of his time Kirsanoff’s “Ménilmontant” – Short but powerful Epstein’s “The Fall of the House of Usher” The aforementioned “Strike”, “Sunrise”, and “The Passion of Joan of Arc” ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-become-a-fan-of-silent-movies/514389/8 "2009-10-20T01:55:28Z")
_The Mark of Zorro_! Douglas Fairbanks, incredibly magnetic. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-become-a-fan-of-silent-movies/514389/9 "2009-10-20T02:02:03Z")
**WOW!** 🙂 You guys, you **GUYS**! 🙂 I have been watching them on TCM (Turner Classic Movies), and today was Harold Lloyd day, but I wonder how many others of the ones y’all mentioned, they have the rights to show? I _think_ they have _Nostradamus_, but _not_ _Metropolis_, and I believe I once read they have only the MGM catalogue? Thanks, Q ---
**Author:** ![Jumpbass](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jumpbass/32/147_2.png) [@Jumpbass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jumpbass)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-become-a-fan-of-silent-movies/514389/10 "2009-10-20T02:20:41Z")
Big fan of Buster Keaton checking in. A lot of silent comedies were undercranked, speeding up the action on screen. I wonder if some of the films you’ve seen had that done for modern release. That would make the titles short. (BTW, Keaton mentions in an interview that he did his own titling, so that’s probably what they’re called.) Keaton never undercranked his films, so if you see a speeded up one, it’s been messed with. When I watch silents, I usually turn the sound down and put on some ragtime music. That way I can control the tunes. One thing that gets my goat with some DVD releases is when they put a sepia tone over the whole thing. I have to adjust my TV back to B&W to get rid of it. There’s a DVD set on Amazon of most of Keaton’s pre- MGM films I’m lusting after. It’s about $150. Maybe for Xmas… Laurel & Hardy silents are quite fun, too, if you can find them. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-become-a-fan-of-silent-movies/514389/11 "2009-10-20T02:38:03Z")
TCM owns the MGM catalog, but they play much, much more than that. My favorite silents: _The Passion of Joan of Arc Sunrise The General City Lights The Crowd I Was Born, But . . . The Docks of New York Nanook of the North Seventh Heaven The Wind_ ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-become-a-fan-of-silent-movies/514389/12 "2009-10-20T02:47:07Z")
_The General_ and _The Freshman_ both had us laughing so hard we were gasping for breath - I wish I could see them in a theater with other people, because comedies are always funnier that way. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-become-a-fan-of-silent-movies/514389/13 "2009-10-20T02:51:05Z")
Keaton is my god. My kids are slowly coming to understand that. Lloyd sits at His right hand. Chaplin has been pushed down the banquet table for mawkishness, though I have long been amused that Mabel Normand always portrays a near-child of sylphlike, slender, grace and beauty when, if she weighed in at less than a valkyrielike Buck-Eighty\* I’ll eat my shorts. And she makes it work. Fashion was different then. - - For foreign nationals unfamiliar with American idioms, a buck=100 (just as in money a buck = 1 dollar = 100 cents) and, when measuring mass, pounds are assumed. \*\* - For our metric pals, 81.65kg \*\*\* - For our unreconstructed Brit pals, 12.86 stone \*\*\*\* - For our boxing pals, that makes her a “cruiserweight.” ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-become-a-fan-of-silent-movies/514389/14 "2009-10-20T03:01:15Z")
I’ve never cared for Chaplin, really, when compared to the more subtle masters of silent comedy. He just isn’t that funny to me, while Lloyd and Keaton can make me howl with laughter with just a sidelong glance. Why does he get all the glory? ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-become-a-fan-of-silent-movies/514389/15 "2009-10-20T03:28:15Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > I’ve never cared for Chaplin, really, when compared to the more subtle masters of silent comedy. He just isn’t that funny to me, while Lloyd and Keaton can make me howl with laughter with just a sidelong glance. Why does he get all the glory? Because he was more than funny. He’s one of the, oh say 10 most important directors in the history of American film. He made some stunning masterpieces, as a director. Watch _City Lights_. widely acknowledged as one of the greatest films of all time, for an appreciation of Chaplin the director. Then _Limelight_. Then you’ll probably want to watch them all. But yeah, Keaton was way funnier. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-become-a-fan-of-silent-movies/514389/16 "2009-10-20T03:29:18Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > _The General_ and _The Freshman_ both had us laughing so hard we were gasping for breath - I wish I could see them in a theater with other people, because comedies are always funnier that way. Watch Keaton’s _Seven Chances_, another one of his funniest. And _Steamboat Bill, Jr._ ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-become-a-fan-of-silent-movies/514389/17 "2009-10-20T03:43:19Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > But yeah, Keaton was way funnier. Maybe, but neither Chaplin or Keaton ever blew his own hand off for a bit. Now, that’s dedication. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-become-a-fan-of-silent-movies/514389/18 "2009-10-20T03:48:37Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Because he was more than funny. He’s one of the, oh say 10 most important directors in the history of American film. He made some stunning masterpieces, as a director. Watch _City Lights_. widely acknowledged as one of the greatest films of all time, for an appreciation of Chaplin the director. Then _Limelight_. Then you’ll probably want to watch them all. > > But yeah, Keaton was way funnier. I’ve seen it. I mean, it’s _okay_, it’s a good movie, but it didn’t make me run out and tell all my friends to see it. _The Freshman_ did. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-become-a-fan-of-silent-movies/514389/19 "2009-10-20T05:55:46Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > Silent movies were filmed at 24 frames per second.\* Later, the standard was changed to 32 frames per second . . . Actually, sound films were standardized at 24 FPS. Silent movie frame rates varied between 16 and 23 FPS. You can read about it [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_frame) and [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_film). In 1999 I saw a showing of Chaplin’s **The Gold Rush** for the 150th anniversary of the California gold rush. Yes, the movie is about the Alaska gold rush, but they couldn’t find a decent movie about the 49ers. Anyway, I found the movie to be very funny, and it avoided the over-the-top sentimentality that Chaplin was prone to. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-become-a-fan-of-silent-movies/514389/20 "2009-10-20T06:25:50Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > _Nosferatu_ is probably my favorite silent film. My handicap with silent cinema is that it’s pre-Method acting, so I consider most of the performances to be _far_ overdone and melodramatic. _Nosferatu_ has hammy acting but it’s counterbalanced by a gripping performance by Schreck in the title role and an atmosphere of dread and unease it would be very difficult to replicate in a talky, let alone a color film. > > I also absolutely love the Swedish film _[Häxan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A4xan)_ (The Witches), a fake documentary about witches and witchcraft that has some amazingly effective special effects. There is a version with narration by William S. Burroughs and an acid jazz soundtrack that I have only seen a small part of and I’m dying to see again. > > And we cannot forget the surrealist masterpiece _[The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cabinet_of_Dr._Caligari)_, the father of a thousand music videos. 😉 The stunning visual style is an absolute joy. > > Note well an advantage of silence: Translating films is a lot easier when all of the dialogue is on cards that can be on screen for as long as they need to be, as opposed to being spoken at a fixed rate judged to be effective for a given language and point in the film. Neither subtitles nor dubbing is as seamless as just translating the intertitles. I dropped into the thread specifically to mention _Häxan_. I saw it for the first time last year and I loved it. This along with _Nosferatu_ and _Vampyr: Der Traum des Allen Grey_ now male up the Unholy Trinity of early horror for me. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-become-a-fan-of-silent-movies/514389.md?page=2)