# I have changed my mind about the Clinton email scandal (and so should you) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 29, 2016, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-changed-my-mind-about-the-clinton-email-scandal-and-so-should-you/750514 "2016-03-29T13:31:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-changed-my-mind-about-the-clinton-email-scandal-and-so-should-you/750514/261 "2016-06-13T14:40:26Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > …You’re suggesting that she did so privately. By all indications–including that she continued to use these same systems, which would have been a pretty huge bit of hypocrisy if she had–she did not. Nope. Just asking if such a public disclosure of a weakness would be wise, or politically advantageous. If _you_ want to suggest that’s what I’m suggesting, that’s entirely your business, but I much prefer the words that come out of my mouth to originate there. That said, I fully endorse the clarifications you have offered. I intend to work towards changing my mind to align with them. Ah! Well, that was easy, didn’t take any time at all! ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-changed-my-mind-about-the-clinton-email-scandal-and-so-should-you/750514/262 "2016-06-13T14:45:20Z")
You like words coming out of your mouth so much, I am surprised you’re picky about the origin at all. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-changed-my-mind-about-the-clinton-email-scandal-and-so-should-you/750514/263 "2016-06-13T14:46:26Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Nope. Just asking if such a public disclosure of a weakness would be wise, or politically advantageous. If _you_ want to suggest that’s what I’m suggesting, that’s entirely your business, but I much prefer the words that come out of my mouth to originate there. > > That said, I fully endorse the clarifications you have offered. I intend to work towards changing my mind to align with them. Ah! Well, that was easy, didn’t take any time at all! OK…but after all the teeth-pulling to get you to finally read the article, you have no comment on it? Your previous posts suggested you would be quite troubled if she sent insecure emails concerning imminent drone strikes. Is that not what you meant to suggest? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-changed-my-mind-about-the-clinton-email-scandal-and-so-should-you/750514/264 "2016-06-13T14:50:43Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > You like words coming out of your mouth so much, I am surprised you’re picky about the origin at all. You don’t have to read any of them. I’ll get over it. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-changed-my-mind-about-the-clinton-email-scandal-and-so-should-you/750514/265 "2016-06-13T14:57:35Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You don’t have to read any of them. Actually, I do. I was assigned 40 hours of Community Service. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-changed-my-mind-about-the-clinton-email-scandal-and-so-should-you/750514/266 "2016-06-13T15:03:35Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > OK…but after all the teeth-pulling to get you to finally read the article, you have no comment on it? Your previous posts suggested you would be quite troubled if she sent insecure emails concerning imminent drone strikes. Is that not what you meant to suggest? My suspicion, well founded or not, is that she afoul of that technicality mentioned in the article I cited. > [@](#): > > …The officials say the emails included relatively “innocuous” conversations by State Department officials about the CIA drone program, which technically is considered a “Special Access Program” because officials are briefed on it only if they have a “need to know.” > > As a legal matter, the U.S. government does not acknowledge that the CIA kills militants with drones. The fact that the CIA conducts drone strikes in Pakistan and Yemen, however, has long been known. Senior officials, including Sen. Dianne Feinstein and former CIA Director Leon Panetta, have publicly discussed CIA drones… To oversimplify, questioning and/or discussing the wisdom of the drone strike program is a far cry from “Maybe we should reconsider our scheduled attack on Ahmed Camelbugger, now set for next Tuesday morning at 9:30 am, Kabul time…”. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-changed-my-mind-about-the-clinton-email-scandal-and-so-should-you/750514/267 "2016-06-13T15:05:27Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Actually, I do. I was assigned 40 hours of Community Service. ☹ Oh, you poor dear! Lethal injection was not an option? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-changed-my-mind-about-the-clinton-email-scandal-and-so-should-you/750514/268 "2016-06-13T15:06:25Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > My suspicion, well founded or not, is that she afoul of that technicality mentioned in the article I cited. . . .To oversimplify, questioning and/or discussing the wisdom of the drone strike program is a far cry from “Maybe we should reconsider our scheduled attack on Ahmed Camelbugger, now set for next Tuesday morning at 9:30 am, Kabul time…”. Yes, I realized that was your position three posts ago, which is why I expressly explained why you’d be wrong to think that. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-changed-my-mind-about-the-clinton-email-scandal-and-so-should-you/750514/269 "2016-06-13T15:13:40Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > I have had security clearance. I know the classification system inside and out. I have also worked in IT. And I’m not impressed. > > You’ll also notice an interesting regularity…the big names on that list all worked/were appointed under Dubyah’s administration. Funny how that works out. Why would any of those people have any reason to criticize Hillary? > > For the umpteenth time…give me a break. Please. You throw out something untrue to dismiss the letter. When exactly was William Binney “appointed”? Do some research. Your reply proves you have never had a security clearance. Easy to throw that out here, but no way to prove it, is there? But since you claim you know the system “inside and out”, we all need to take your word. Give me a break. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-changed-my-mind-about-the-clinton-email-scandal-and-so-should-you/750514/270 "2016-06-13T15:15:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Yes, I realized that was your position three posts ago, which is why I expressly explained why you’d be wrong to think that. I have already clearly stated, more than once, that my opinions on this are not authoritative. Nor are they based on any exceptional level of expertise. Are yours? With all due awe, of course. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-changed-my-mind-about-the-clinton-email-scandal-and-so-should-you/750514/271 "2016-06-13T15:15:48Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Yes, I realized that was your position three posts ago, which is why I expressly explained why you’d be wrong to think that. You’ll have to excuse him, he much prefers the words that go into his ears originate from his own mouth. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-changed-my-mind-about-the-clinton-email-scandal-and-so-should-you/750514/272 "2016-06-13T15:17:23Z")
Ooh. Snap. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-changed-my-mind-about-the-clinton-email-scandal-and-so-should-you/750514/273 "2016-06-13T15:24:45Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I have already clearly stated, more than once, that my opinions on this are not authoritative. Nor are they based on any exceptional level of expertise. Are yours? With all due awe, of course. I’m not asking you to be an expert, or trying to appeal to my own expertise, **elucidator**. I’m asking you to read my posts before replying to them. Obviously, whether you want to address my take on things is entirely your call. But if you’re going to address it, please take the time to read what I’ve written. I addressed your comments about the NBC News “diverging” narrative in Post #258. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-changed-my-mind-about-the-clinton-email-scandal-and-so-should-you/750514/274 "2016-06-13T17:02:16Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > When it was originally reported, my view of the scandal was that it was not properly a national security scandal but instead a scandal over the effort to hide emails from FOIA access. I believed that it was unlikely that she sent any truly sensitive information, as distinct from technically classified stuff like the existence of the drone program. I also believed that the security for the home server was likely good enough for these purposes. > > In retrospect, I was incredibly naive about the level of security necessary to protect an email server from foreign governments, and the level of security employed for officials like SecState. I was also naive about Clinton’s understanding of what information is sensitive. As it turns out, Clinton had people telling her how vulnerable this made her communications, and she continued to do it anyway–and sent highly sensitive information over a server without even using any form of encryption. > > Here’s what was reported last week in the [Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/how-clintons-email-scandal-took-root/2016/03/27/ee301168-e162-11e5-846c-10191d1fc4ec_story.html) (and has previously been reported elsewhere): > > That’s pretty damning. If security people were telling her to knock it off for good reason, she acknowledged those concerns, and then essentially ignored them, then this is a justified national security scandal. I still doubt that a crime was committed, given the scope of the criminal law. But it has caused me to downgrade my estimation of Clinton’s judgment by a good notch. I’m not sure she has worse judgment than her competitors, but it’s now a closer call in my book. I’m pretty mixed on this to be honest. On the one hand, having had a security clearance myself and having seen co-workers and peers who have screwed up on security get hammered, it’s a bit infuriating to see someone like Hillary get away with flaunting the rules. On the other hand, top officials, regardless of who they are, often do just that with little or no consequence, so the fact that Hillary did it too just shows the dual standards between the run of the mill grunts like me and my peers and co-workers and the upper echelons of our government wrt elected or appointed officials (or even very high level government workers). It sucks…but it’s the way things are. This isn’t another manufactured scandal such as the wolf crying the Republicans have done over and over in the past decade or so, especially since Obama became president (but really since Clinton’s baby daddy war president)…it’s a real issue and it definitely shows that Hillary considers herself entitled and immune from the the rules that the ordinary grunts have to abide by (or lose their clearances and, usually, their jobs too). But there really is something to the ‘everyone does it’ meme wrt high level officials, so if we are going to hold her accountable we need to do so with everyone else as well (and I think we should). That said, it hasn’t changed my own mind about voting for her in November. She is still, even despite this, the least bad choice and I decided to vote for her knowing full well that she had done this and knowing what the real world implications of what she did actually are, unfiltered by partisan politics I see so many in this thread displaying, one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-changed-my-mind-about-the-clinton-email-scandal-and-so-should-you/750514/275 "2016-06-13T17:45:35Z")
> [@crypto](#): > > Anyone on this board have a security clearance, or know someone who does? > > Ask them, regardless of party affiliation, what they think about this. > [@crypto](#): > > Your reply proves you have never had a security clearance. Easy to throw that out here, but no way to prove it, is there? But since you claim you know the system “inside and out”, we all need to take your word. > > Give me a break. I think it’s pretty ridiculous to ask people if they have a security clearance, and then when someone says they do, but don’t share your opinion, you don’t believe them. I’m sure you could come up with a few simple questions to test someone’s knowledge of the security clearance system… like I might ask you: Describe what type of information would be classified above Top Secret? > [@](#): > > This is an open letter to Obama, written by a number of intelligence officials. > > [Opinion | Intel Vets Urge Fast Report on Clinton's Emails | Common Dreams](http://www.commondreams.org/views/2016/05/24/intel-vets-urge-fast-report-clintons-emails) > > (And before you Clinton fans start complaining about the website, pick whatever website you wish… This is an open letter and it is posted on a number of different sites, and they all are the same. I linked to the first one that came up in my search). > > If what I have read is true, Hillary Clinton should be indicted on espionage charges. You should be aware that at least three or four of the people who signed that letter have been convicted of mishandling classified information during the Obama Administration. Several have been very active in the anti-war movement. More than a couple are just outright loons, having made claims along the lines that the 9/11 attacks were a “false flag” operation. These aren’t impartial intelligence professionals sharing an unbiased view of national security; they are advocates for their own agendas. Which is totally fine, as long as people don’t mistake them for people without an agenda. And this group doesn’t really have a terribly impressive record. In August 2010, they [warned](http://www.consortiumnews.com/2010/080310c.html) that an Israeli attack on Iran was only weeks away unless Obama publicly condemned such an attack, and accused Obama of being too trusting of Netanyahu. Considering the state of Obama-Netanyahu relations, the accusation that they are too close to either other is a real belly-laugher. And a few years earlier, this group [opined](http://warisacrime.org/node/25162) that a “cornered” George Bush had psychological problems that would cause him to attack Iran unless impeached. So, there’s that. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-changed-my-mind-about-the-clinton-email-scandal-and-so-should-you/750514/276 "2016-06-13T20:03:35Z")
> [@crypto](#): > > Your reply proves you have never had a security clearance. Easy to throw that out here, but no way to prove it, is there? But since you claim you know the system “inside and out”, we all need to take your word. Please, since my reply has ‘proven’ that I’ve never had a clearance, do so. Prove it. Bring all your deep knowledge to bear. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-changed-my-mind-about-the-clinton-email-scandal-and-so-should-you/750514/277 "2016-06-13T20:40:49Z")
> [@crypto](#): > > Please. > > You throw out something untrue to dismiss the letter. When exactly was William Binney “appointed”? Do some research. > > Your reply proves you have never had a security clearance. Easy to throw that out here, but no way to prove it, is there? But since you claim you know the system “inside and out”, we all need to take your word. > > Give me a break. It’s against the rules to accuse another poster of lying. Warning issued. Please don’t do it again. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-changed-my-mind-about-the-clinton-email-scandal-and-so-should-you/750514/278 "2016-06-13T20:43:26Z")
> [@crypto](#): > > **Richard Parker** , Congratulations! You have seen the light. > > Anyone on this board have a security clearance, or know someone who does? > > Ask them, regardless of party affiliation, what they think about this. > > Anyone who chalks this up as “no big deal” is either deluding themselves or has no idea what security classifications are all about, nor do they understand the rules on handling classified emails. > > Here, let me help you. > > This is an open letter to Obama, written by a number of intelligence officials. > > [Opinion | Intel Vets Urge Fast Report on Clinton's Emails | Common Dreams](http://www.commondreams.org/views/2016/05/24/intel-vets-urge-fast-report-clintons-emails) > > (And before you Clinton fans start complaining about the website, pick whatever website you wish… This is an open letter and it is posted on a number of different sites, and they all are the same. I linked to the first one that came up in my search). > > If what I have read is true, Hillary Clinton should be indicted on espionage charges. > > Whether or not she is actually charged has nothing to do with the law, and everything to do with power and politics. > > The woman is a flat-out criminal. And she knows that her supporters are not paying attention and/or simply don’t care. > > The US has turned into a pathetic reality TV show. I honestly don’t understand how anyone with a brain could vote for this woman. Don’t like Trump? Fine. But for all that is holy, is this the best we can do? > > Read the letter carefully… The FBI and the NSA know. If there is any justice left in the United States, she should be going to jail. And this is why Bernie Sanders is staying in the race. He would be crazy to pull out now. A couple of points. Regardless of whether or not Hillary broke the law, General Patraeus intentionally gave classified material to a woman he was having an affair with. He did not go to jail. So why should Hillary? The FBI director is on record saying that he would resign rather than let anyone pressure him on this matter and everyone on both sides of the aisle seem to believe him (he has an impeccable reputation for professional integrity). The white house can no more hurry him than they can slow him down without causing severe damage to themselves. There are few things more damning than high level officials resigning in protest over the politicization of their agency. I agree that this is Bernie’s only hope. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-changed-my-mind-about-the-clinton-email-scandal-and-so-should-you/750514/279 "2016-06-13T20:51:24Z")
> [@crypto](#): > > Please. > > You throw out something untrue to dismiss the letter. When exactly was William Binney “appointed”? Do some research. > > Your reply proves you have never had a security clearance. Easy to throw that out here, but no way to prove it, is there? But since you claim you know the system “inside and out”, we all need to take your word. > > Give me a break. I don’t know where you live but security clearances are not really that hard to come by if you live in some parts of the country. Almost every IT professional in the greater DC area seems to have some sort of security clearance. A lot of the stuff is entirely uninteresting to anyone but is classified because its easier to explain an overabundance of caution than missing something that ought to have been classified. I hear stories about publicly available information being stamped classified because its in a file where there are one or two items that should be classified. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-changed-my-mind-about-the-clinton-email-scandal-and-so-should-you/750514/280 "2016-06-13T21:11:24Z")
[QUOTE=Damuri Ajashi] I don’t know where you live but security clearances are not really that hard to come by if you live in some parts of the country. [/QUOTE] Or served in the military. **crypto** seems to be laboring under the assumption that the mere fact of claiming a clearance is by definition disclosing classified information. He is wrong, of course, but he thinks he ‘got me.’ Makes me wonder why he asked the question in the first place, if that _is_ what he thinks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-changed-my-mind-about-the-clinton-email-scandal-and-so-should-you/750514.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-changed-my-mind-about-the-clinton-email-scandal-and-so-should-you/750514.md?page=15)