# I have decided to become an atheist (hypothetical) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 10, 2008, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-decided-to-become-an-atheist-hypothetical/444723 "2008-04-10T03:23:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-decided-to-become-an-atheist-hypothetical/444723/181 "2008-04-10T22:04:23Z")
**Der Trihs** Your argument by assertion is not compelling in an honest debate. I am done giving you attention. You have not provided any evidence for anything. ---
**Author:** ![Anomalous\_Reading](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Anomalous\_Reading](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anomalous_Reading)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-decided-to-become-an-atheist-hypothetical/444723/182 "2008-04-10T22:06:12Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] Oh, to all you atheists who are claiming that I am **lying** when I say I wasn’t talking about all atheists. You are breaking the rules. [/QUOTE] [Huh. Didn’t see THIS happening…](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9672970&postcount=24) Is THIS really what the dope is? Really? A bunch of people who enjoy being angry and bashing people’s misunderstood statements? And then when it happens back, calling it a strawman? Being so mad you can’t actually even converse fairly? The OP is drivel. The OP looks hateful or resentful. A tree is known by its fruits. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-decided-to-become-an-atheist-hypothetical/444723/183 "2008-04-10T22:08:19Z")
[QUOTE=MrDibble] You have no idea what shapes my moral beliefs - let’s just say that my morality is more shaped by Darwin, Epicureanism and Nietzsche than any three religious influences you could name. [/quote] How Goth. Nietzche is heavily influenced by Christianity. Being reactionary to is being influenced by. > [@](#): > > Which is a shitty posting habit BTW - if you just want (what you think is) an echo chamber, why are you in GD? Really? It’s better to argue with those who are insisting I said something I didn’t say than to argue with the person who understood what I was getting at? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-decided-to-become-an-atheist-hypothetical/444723/184 "2008-04-10T22:09:33Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] **Der Trihs** Your argument by assertion is not compelling in an honest debate. I am done giving you attention. You have not provided any evidence for anything. [/QUOTE] :rolleyes: And **mswas** goes for the “You are not WORTHY !” defense again. And considering all the “arguments by assertion” you make, without a shred of evidence, you are hardly in a position to complain that someone else is doing so. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-decided-to-become-an-atheist-hypothetical/444723/185 "2008-04-10T22:10:53Z")
[QUOTE=Anomalous Reading] [Huh. Didn’t see THIS happening…](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9672970&postcount=24) Is THIS really what the dope is? Really? A bunch of people who enjoy being angry and bashing people’s misunderstood statements? And then when it happens back, calling it a strawman? Being so mad you can’t actually even converse fairly? The OP is drivel. The OP looks hateful or resentful. A tree is known by its fruits. [/QUOTE] I am having trouble **reading** this. It’s meaning is **anomalous**. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-decided-to-become-an-atheist-hypothetical/444723/186 "2008-04-10T22:12:01Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] :rolleyes: And **mswas** goes for the “You are not WORTHY !” defense again. And considering all the “arguments by assertion” you make, without a shred of evidence, you are hardly in a position to complain that someone else is doing so. [/QUOTE] I asked you for cites multiple times. You came back with nothing. No, you aren’t worthy. ---
**Author:** ![Anomalous\_Reading](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Anomalous\_Reading](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anomalous_Reading)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-decided-to-become-an-atheist-hypothetical/444723/187 "2008-04-10T22:14:25Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] I am having trouble **reading** this. It’s meaning is **anomalous**. [/QUOTE] LOL. Point made - I’ll continue posting in the pit. Never did really miss kindergarten… ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-decided-to-become-an-atheist-hypothetical/444723/188 "2008-04-10T22:18:32Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] How Goth. [/QUOTE] Damn! You’ve got me pegged. [QUOTE=mswas] Nietzche is heavily influenced by Christianity. Being reactionary to is being influenced by. [/QUOTE] Influenced by, yes. Underpinned by, no. And it’s the latter you’re asserting. If your “hypothetical” worked out, then even if there is no God, the things done in counter to that still stand - you can’t have it both ways - if removing god erodes religious morality, how can it also it erode anti-religious morality? Surely it must strengthen it? [QUOTE=mswas] Really? It’s better to argue with those who are insisting I said something I didn’t say than to argue with the person who understood what I was getting at? [/QUOTE] Yes. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-decided-to-become-an-atheist-hypothetical/444723/189 "2008-04-10T22:19:52Z")
[QUOTE=MrDibble] Damn! You’ve got me pegged. Influenced by, yes. Underpinned by, no. And it’s the latter you’re asserting. If your “hypothetical” worked out, then even if there is no God, the things done in counter to that still stand - you can’t have it both ways - if removing god erodes religious morality, how can it also it erode anti-religious morality? Surely it must strengthen it? Yes. [/QUOTE] It’s kind of difficult to argue with people who aren’t even on the same page that you are. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-decided-to-become-an-atheist-hypothetical/444723/190 "2008-04-10T22:28:07Z")
[QUOTE=Pochacco] I gotta agree with \*\*mswas \*\* here. Christian principles have had a strong influence on European (and by extension, American) morality. Even among atheists like me. Of course, the same could be said of classical Greek values and they were pagans. [/QUOTE] Although I typically agree with you, I do not agree that Christianity ‘defines’ my morality. I also know of no evidence to suggest that my moral reasoning differs meaningfully from someone living in Asia. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-decided-to-become-an-atheist-hypothetical/444723/191 "2008-04-10T22:30:58Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] It’s kind of difficult to argue with people who aren’t even on the same page that you are. Sorry. [/QUOTE] This isn’t EASY Debates, you know. You’ve got to REPRESENT, you know what I’m saying? We don’t want some slack soft-pedalling shit up in here. We want the Master Debaters. Master the Debate, don’t let the Debate Master you. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-decided-to-become-an-atheist-hypothetical/444723/192 "2008-04-10T22:33:22Z")
[QUOTE=MrDibble] This isn’t EASY Debates, you know. You’ve got to REPRESENT, you know what I’m saying? We don’t want some slack soft-pedalling shit up in here. We want the Master Debaters. Master the Debate, don’t let the Debate Master you. [/QUOTE] Yeah, but when I clarify my position you accuse me of lying. Doesn’t leave much wiggle room does it? You: You’re implying this! Me: No I’m not! You: Yes you are, now support your argument! Me: But that’s not the argument I’m making! You: Support it! ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-decided-to-become-an-atheist-hypothetical/444723/193 "2008-04-10T22:35:04Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] Mental Illness: Psychology can be observed using scientific principles, but proper functioning is often a result of societal norms. It seems to me that there is a mental illness to accomodate for the full range of human emotion, in order to sell medication. The notion of illness is entirely subjective. Laziness: ADHD Sad: Depression Get Excited and Sad: Bipolar Can think with different methods of thought: Schizophrenia Get angry: Anger management issues Whether or not it is an illness seems to be directly proportional to the level of social acceptability. How often have we read anecdotal stories of kids diagnosed with ADHD in Public schools who change to homeschooling or alternative schools and flourish? [/QUOTE] This is of course completely at odds with the empirical evidence, which strongly indicates that the DSM definitions of mental disorders hold across cultures and countries. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-decided-to-become-an-atheist-hypothetical/444723/194 "2008-04-10T22:47:02Z")
[QUOTE=MrDibble] Curse the away goals rule, eh? [/QUOTE] And in the _120th_ minute to boot. Anyway, you win. See you in hell! Well done my friend. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-decided-to-become-an-atheist-hypothetical/444723/195 "2008-04-10T22:49:11Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] This is of course completely at odds with the empirical evidence, which strongly indicates that the DSM definitions of mental disorders hold across cultures and countries. [/QUOTE] I see. So how do you explain the child that has ADHD in one environment but is fine in another? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-decided-to-become-an-atheist-hypothetical/444723/196 "2008-04-10T22:49:12Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] Yeah, but when I clarify my position you accuse me of lying. [/QUOTE] Not in this thread I haven’t. [QUOTE=mswas] Doesn’t leave much wiggle room does it? [/QUOTE] Why’d you need to wiggle? [QUOTE=mswas] You: You’re implying this! Me: No I’m not! You: Yes you are, now support your argument! Me: But that’s not the argument I’m making! You: Support it! [/QUOTE] I have made no such style of argument here. I’ve attacked your stated premises, like the central religious basis for morality and the view that atheist arguments are necessarily emotionless. What I’ve said in the Pit about your debate style is for the Pit. The only remarks I made here were about dodging the hard questions/stubborn opponents. You don’t win even Devil’s Advocate debates by throwing your hands up in the air and going “AAARGH!” ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-decided-to-become-an-atheist-hypothetical/444723/197 "2008-04-10T22:49:45Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] I asked you for cites multiple times. You came back with nothing. No, you aren’t worthy. [/QUOTE] I don’t recall you asking for cites at all. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-decided-to-become-an-atheist-hypothetical/444723/198 "2008-04-10T22:50:32Z")
[QUOTE=MrDibble] Not in this thread I haven’t.Why’d you need to wiggle? I have made no such style of argument here. I’ve attacked your stated premises, like the central religious basis for morality and the view that atheist arguments are necessarily emotionless. What I’ve said in the Pit about your debate style is for the Pit. The only remarks I made here were about dodging the hard questions/stubborn opponents. You don’t win even Devil’s Advocate debates by throwing your hands up in the air and going “AAARGH!” [/QUOTE] I responded directly to several of your posts. So I don’t know what you are talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-decided-to-become-an-atheist-hypothetical/444723/199 "2008-04-10T22:53:36Z")
Wait a sec… does this boil down to “every atheist is different” or not? If so, then if mswas thinks he can be the atheist sociopath… let him. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-decided-to-become-an-atheist-hypothetical/444723/200 "2008-04-10T22:54:21Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] I see. So how do you explain the child that has ADHD in one environment but is fine in another? [/QUOTE] How about I explain it as an irrelevant anecdotal comment until you post some cites? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-decided-to-become-an-atheist-hypothetical/444723.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-have-decided-to-become-an-atheist-hypothetical/444723.md?page=11)