# I heard Frank Zappa for the first time yesterday **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 1, 2005, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-heard-frank-zappa-for-the-first-time-yesterday/287849 "2005-02-01T20:50:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cabbage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@Cabbage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabbage)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-heard-frank-zappa-for-the-first-time-yesterday/287849/21 "2005-02-02T21:05:31Z")
I thought I’d add one more thing, regarding the stupid lyrics in some of Zappa’s songs (actually, I generally find his lyrics quite amusing) from FZ himself: > [@](#): > > I don’t have any pretensions about being a poet. My lyrics are there for entertainment purposes only–_not to be take internally_. Some of them are **truly stupid** , some are slightly less stupid and few of them are sort of funny. Apart from the snide political stuff, which I enjoy writing, the rest of the lyrics wouldn’t exist at all if it weren’t for the fact that we live in a society where instrumental music is irrelevant–so if a guy expects to earn a living by providing musical entertainment for folks in the U.S.A., he’d better figure out how to do _something_ with a human voice plopped on it. –FZ, quoted from _The Real Frank Zappa Book_. In other words, don’t let his lyrics get in the way of his music. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-heard-frank-zappa-for-the-first-time-yesterday/287849/22 "2005-02-02T21:25:43Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#): > > Definitely not _Studio Tan_, which is four weird songs (with lyrics); mostly offbeat humor like the Frankie and Annette-style beach party parody “Lemme Take You To the Beach” and the 20+ minute cartoony epic “The Adventures of Gregory Peccary.” Actually, apart from “Greggery Peccary” (which is mostly narration–sort of Zappa’s equivalent of _Peter and the Wolf_–with only a few short passages of actual singing) and “Lemme Take You to the Beach,” the album consists of two lengthy, and exquisite, instrumentals: “RDNZL” and “Revised Music for Guitar and Low Budget Orchestra.” The latter is a reworking of an orchestral piece originally composed for Jean-Luc Ponty, and features Bruce Fowler’s breathtaking multi-overdubbed trombone doubling and harmonizing an improvised Zappa solo. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a5b964/32.png) [@Bill\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_H)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-heard-frank-zappa-for-the-first-time-yesterday/287849/23 "2005-02-02T21:44:38Z")
**Cabbage** wrote > [@](#): > > Bill H., I notice you didn’t mention anything about Zappa’s third number on SNL; what did you think of that one? > > That number was Peaches En Regalia (one of my favorites) from his jazzy album Hot Rats. I see Tamerlane just mentioned this album, so I’ll second it. Hot Rats is mostly instrumental, so if Zappa’s sense of humor isn’t your style, maybe this will be. Some of his more melodic stuff is on this one, such as Son Of Mr. Green Genes and Little Umbrellas, so you might give this one a shot. Honestly, though I did listen to all three all the way through, I don’t really recall much other than the xylaphone and the performance-art theatric stuff. I thought the third was the one with John Belushi, but maybe that’s not correct. I’ll see if I can check out _Hot Rats_ though. ---
**Author:** ![Cabbage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@Cabbage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabbage)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-heard-frank-zappa-for-the-first-time-yesterday/287849/24 "2005-02-02T22:57:09Z")
> [@Bill H.](#): > > **Cabbage** wrote > > Honestly, though I did listen to all three all the way through, I don’t really recall much other than the xylaphone and the performance-art theatric stuff. I thought the third was the one with John Belushi, but maybe that’s not correct. I’ll see if I can check out _Hot Rats_ though. Yeah, the first one (_I’m the Slime_) was with Don Pardo, the second one (_Lagoon_, I believe) was with Belushi, and the third one (_Peaches en Regalia_) was (in my opinion) the best and entirely instrumental. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a5b964/32.png) [@Bill\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_H)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-heard-frank-zappa-for-the-first-time-yesterday/287849/25 "2005-02-02T23:12:23Z")
I must say, that’s an impressive memory you’ve got there, **Cabbage**. ---
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-heard-frank-zappa-for-the-first-time-yesterday/287849/26 "2005-02-02T23:33:31Z")
> [@Bill H.](#): > > Well, I’ve listened to _We’re only in it for the money_, and I’m no closer to enjoying Mr. Zappa. I liked the “Hi boys and girls. I’m so-and-so, and I’m the indian of the group”, but that was about it. I could see why songs were supposed to be funny, but it wasn’t my humor. Mojo Nixon, now that’s funny. Weird Al, now that’s funny. “I’m going to San Francisco and be a hippie and be a manager for a band and join love ins”, well, it just wasn’t my thing. That would have been Jimmy Carl Black who went on the form “The Grandmothers” consisting of old members of The Mothers of Invention after the original group broke up. Yes, the thematic style of the album is pretty dated these days and you do have to listen to it in context of the times it was made in. Considering this, it was pretty advanced for it’s time. Parts of it are still advanced now! And I also have to mention Don “Sugar Cane” Harris who Zappa rescued from obscurity for a little bit. Zappa was one of the first to include a violinist in a straight rock band (i.e., not a “progressive” rock band.) However, he ended up hating Jean Luc-Ponty because he _always_ ended his solos in exactly the same way and Zappa didn’t feel he was getting any real creativity out of him. ---
**Author:** ![Cabbage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@Cabbage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabbage)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-heard-frank-zappa-for-the-first-time-yesterday/287849/27 "2005-02-02T23:38:34Z")
> [@Bill H.](#): > > I must say, that’s an impressive memory you’ve got there, **Cabbage**. Not really, I just watched it this past Saturday night! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-heard-frank-zappa-for-the-first-time-yesterday/287849/28 "2005-02-02T23:56:39Z")
I don’t really get Zappa, either. Maybe when I was fourteen, songs about yellow snow would have been right up my alley, but now it’s just… kinda embarassing, really. > [@Cabbage](#): > > In other words, don’t let his lyrics get in the way of his music. I guess that sums up exactly why I’ll never be a Frank Zappa fan. ---
**Author:** ![fishbicycle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aeb1de/32.png) [@fishbicycle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fishbicycle)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-heard-frank-zappa-for-the-first-time-yesterday/287849/29 "2005-02-03T00:14:37Z")
Can I just drop in here to recommend that you listen, at some point, to “Sheik Yerbouti” and especially “Tinseltown Rebellion”? I can’t think of a better description for either, than _stellar_. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-heard-frank-zappa-for-the-first-time-yesterday/287849/30 "2005-02-03T01:48:16Z")
Although Frank did a great volume of single work, my favorite is from his days with the Mothers of Invention, in which they did a spoof on do-wop 50s music, entitled _Cruisin’ With Ruben and the Jets_. His Phi Zappa Krappa poster is high art also! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-heard-frank-zappa-for-the-first-time-yesterday/287849/31 "2005-02-03T11:26:51Z")
Zappa is the man. Here’s what you need to listen to: **Hot Rats** is the greatest album ever made. Not much for lyrics, but the songs are stellar. If you like Hot Rats, **Grand Wazoo** is also a good. I call it the poor man’s Hot Rats. The guy released 50 albums, many of which are acquired (and varying) tastes, so just randomly picking something will get you an experience similar to the one you had with We’re Only In It For The Money. Here’s my very favorite Zappa albums grouped by genre and ranked inside each group in descending order of favorites first.: ## Instrumental Hot Rats Grand Wazoo ## “Conventional” (Traditional-ish songs, albeit satirical lyrics) Roxy & Elsewhere (“Village of the Sun” is simply too good. I can’t not sing to it.) Joe’s Garage Them Or Us Apostrophe You Are What You Is One Size Fits All Overnite Sensation Zoot Allures Sheik Yerbouti Baby Snakes The Man From Utopia Läther (Posthumous collection of previously unreleased material from the Joe’s Garage era.) ## Mothers (hardcore) Chunga’s Revenge Just Another Band From LA Fillmore East, June 1971 ## Live (Absolutely no overdubs!) You Can’t Do Than On Stage Anymore 3 You Can’t Do Than On Stage Anymore 4 You Can’t Do Than On Stage Anymore 2 (My favorite, but it’s better if you know Roxy & Elsewhere first. The extended Pygmy Twylyte is awesome in context.) ## Old School (This group, for instance, is probably not your cup of tea.) Absolutely Free We’re Only In It For The Money Freak Out ## Acquired Taste Thingfish Uncle Meat Jazz from Hell (Not a fan of Tinseltown Rebellion, personally, but I _love_ Cruisin’ With Reuben And The Jets.) > [@Miller](#): > > I don’t really get Zappa, either. Maybe when I was fourteen, songs about yellow snow would have been right up my alley, but now it’s just… kinda embarassing, really. I guess we know your answer to Zappa’s age-old question: “Does Humor Belong In Music?” For those who don’t like humor in their music, I’d say you will have given Frank a completely fair shake if you only listen to Hot Rats and Roxy & Elsewhere. If you like them, you might like his other stuff as well, but even if you only ever listen to those two, that’s enough to be able to say you gave his stuff a chance. But one simply can’t dismiss his work after only listening to We’re Only In It… and his SNL performance. (Was that the one with Dumb All Over? Not my favorite performance, to be sure. I don’t particularly like any live version of that song, though the studio version on You Are What You Is is pretty good.) ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-heard-frank-zappa-for-the-first-time-yesterday/287849/32 "2005-02-03T12:02:10Z")
He did something called “Broadway the Hard Way” that I thought was pretty good, as well. Kick-ass band on that (as usual) too. ---
**Author:** ![nitroglycerine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c5a1d2/32.png) [@nitroglycerine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nitroglycerine)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-heard-frank-zappa-for-the-first-time-yesterday/287849/33 "2005-02-03T16:17:26Z")
> [@fishbicycle](#): > > Can I just drop in here to recommend that you listen, at some point, to “Sheik Yerbouti” and especially “Tinseltown Rebellion”? I can’t think of a better description for either, than _stellar_. The neat thing about these albums, and a few other ones, is that they were put together using parts recorded live at various shows and reconstructed in the studio. One song might have been put together from ten different shows. Thats one of the reasons FZ hated bootleggers so much. Live versions of songs would be bootlegged before Zappa even had a chance to finish them in the studio. Late period FZ (Sheik Yerbouti and after) is my favorite is my favorite FZ since thats what I grew up on. Most dopers who haven’t heard FZ would probably enjoy **You Are What You Is**. He takes on the religious right, politicians, fat girls, high society, hell…just about everyone takes a hit on this record. It also contains my favorite FZ words of wisdom: “Remember, there’s a big difference between kneeling down and bending over”. Another thing about FZ is his whole conceptual continuity thing. From Freak Out to his post mortem albums, he would revisit themes, characters and concepts, creating his own Zappa universe that reached its peak on the three record set **Thing Fish** Also, if you’re old enough to remember the PMRC hearings, you **have** to hear “Porn Wars” from **FZ Meets The Mothers Of Prevention** ---
**Author:** ![Club\_33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@Club\_33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Club_33)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-heard-frank-zappa-for-the-first-time-yesterday/287849/34 "2005-02-03T17:48:21Z")
> [@mack](#): > > Now that you mention it, Apostrophe is a great place to start off. Ruth Underwood, the incredible percussionist, is in the lineup playing marimba mostly. The first half of the album (Yellow Snow, Nanook Rubs It, St. Alphonzo’s Pancake Breakfast, Father O’Blivion) is amazing. I just wanted to chime in and mention that the drummer on this album is the incredible [Ralph Humphrey](http://www.united-mutations.com/h/ralph_humphrey.htm). He was later one of the heads of the percussion department at the Musician’s Institute in Hollywood, where I studied. He also taught (appropriately enough) odd time and polyrythmns, as well as a class in studio drumming. He never gets the same credit that Vinnie, Chad, or Terry does, which is sad. His contribution to Zappa’s music was quite notable. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-heard-frank-zappa-for-the-first-time-yesterday/287849/35 "2005-02-03T18:04:11Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > I guess we know your answer to Zappa’s age-old question: “Does Humor Belong In Music?” I don’t have a problem with humor in music at all. It’s just that I don’t find Zappa to be funny. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-heard-frank-zappa-for-the-first-time-yesterday/287849/36 "2005-02-03T18:12:20Z")
> [@Bill H.](#): > > Hmmm. I knew that Vai had played with him, but I didn’t know Bozzio did. I also like Bozzio a lot, in fact I was listening to Jeff Beck’s Guitar SHop earlier. I was thinking about this post all morning, because it reminds me that Terry actually sang one or two songs, most notably _I’m So Cute_ from _Sheik Yerbouti_. I enjoy that song immensely, especially the rationale for why being so cute is so necessary: \*Ugly is bad, and bad is wrong, and wrong is sinful, and sin leads to eternal damnation, and HOT BURNING FIRE! (SCREAMS of Agony) ah renn-enn-enn ah renn-enn-enn ah renn-enn-enn ah renn ah! ah renn-enn-enn ah renn-enn-enn ah renn ah renn ah rah!"\* So good. I have to go listen to that song now. Right now. You wish you could be, but you’re so homely, at home and lonely, that you will never, get to be. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-heard-frank-zappa-for-the-first-time-yesterday/287849.md?page=1)