I can’t see the problem with cropping ears or tails if that’s the standard for the breed. It’s not that I want dogs to “suffer”, it’s what is required to perpetuate the traits to keep the breed vital.
Personally, I own Pugs. Nothing required other than regular care and half my meals.
If you’re going to be a vet, you have a responsibility to care for puppies that are bred for genetic quality. That includes cropping ears and tails. If a specimen is worthy of reproduction, part of the care is to do what is needed to present the animal as a worthy candidate for reproduction.
Of course, you can bypass this by refusing to do the cropping. Nobody is forcing you to cut anything other than the cord given a Cesarian birth. And given what it sounds like, you may be best starting a clinic that refuses cropping of any sort.
This may be the best bet, as those of your disposition will appreciate the lower charges for dogs not “worthy” for breeding. There’s a reason those dogs get premium prices, and the vets caring for the Dams get premium rates.
I admire your stance in taking care of animals. Not concerned with charging premium rates based on whether a dog can be bred at a premium price.
I wish I could say I was being sarcastic, but if you’re seriously this dedicated to the animal itself, I’d happily clean the cages. I just want to make sure the cropping is a make-or-break when you get a client with an opn checkbook.
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I can’t see the problem with cropping ears or tails if that’s the standard for the breed.
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The problem is that it’s acceptable to do this to a dog just so it can meet those standards. I don’t know if that’s the fault of breeders or the AKC, but I think it’s reprehensible.
Ah, so that would explain the docking of tails for Border Collies and Lassie-type collies and Shetland Sheepdogs and German Shepherds and Australian Cattle Dogs and Belgian Malinois and Welsh Sheepdogs and Australian Kelpies and Bearded Collies and Belgian Tervurens and
And once again I feel privileged to live in a country where tail docking, ear cropping, declawing, cutting of vocal chords and other pet mutilations done for reasons of convenience or aesthetics are illegal, just as breeding standards that have a negative influence on the animals’ health (Persian cats with flat noses, blue merle causing deafness, hairless cats, etc.).
How many dogs are put down every year in shelters across the United States because nothing but a purebred with papers is good enough? How many genetic health problems infest different breeds because of the constant effort to make a better looking dog that conforms to some standard so bizarre that no dog can possibly meet it unless parts of its body are cut off? How about hip dysplasia and the five hundred or so other genetic diseases in purebred dogs? You don’t think that dog shows, and the desire they create among people to have these ‘show quality’ purebred dogs contribute at all to the prepetuation of genetic diseases? Of course then you have the inbreeding, which according to the Discovery Channel and Animal Planet is pretty common, even with reputable breeders.
I recently heard of a woman who had one of those dogs with papers, one that she bred so she could charge a shitload of money for the puppies, but that dog got outside once and ended up with a litter of puppies from the neighbor’s dog. Apparently she’s highly upset because her dog is ‘ruined’ now. She had to give away the mixed-breed dogs and a relative of mine ended up with one.
What? People still have this misconception? Why on earth would a bitch be “ruined” by having a mixed-breed litter? I’m a white woman. If I have sex with a black man and have a child and then have sex with a white man and have a child, will the second child be part-black because I had my first child with a black man? Of course not. That’s just ridiculous.
It’s what I was told by the relative that got the dog from her. The woman whose dog it was pretty much said that no other breeder will have anything to do with her now and she’s all devastated that she can’t make bank selling the puppies.
Except that in order to be cruel it would have to be, you know, a big deal for the animal, and it’s not. I’m curious – why are you accepting the truth of half of the description of the procedure, but pretending the rest of the information isn’t there?
The actual method by which it is done is fact, but the statements about what the dog ‘feels’ are opinion. I have no reason to accept as fact the idea that ripping off the tail of a puppy does no harm.
How many dogs are put into shelters because owners of non-purebred dogs breed their dogs “so Janie can experience the miracle of birth” or some such nonsense? I’d warrant that VERY FEW dogs are in shelters because a dog buyer would rather have a purebred. Jeezopete.
Unless you believe in Lamarkism, cutting off parts of a dog’s body has nothing to do with its genetic heritage.
You sound like you think these diseases ONLY affect purebred dogs. Think again. Hip dysplasia is very common among both purebreds and mutts. So are epilepsy and various other genetic diseases.
This is the kind of person you should NEVER buy a dog from. A reputable dog breeder does NOT breed to make money. A reputable breeder does the kind of testing and health care that will maybe let her break even if she breeds a litter. A reputable breeder doesn’t let her bitch in heat get out where she can be bred by a passing stray.
Oh, okay. Can you explain why you believe dogs do suffer during this procedure, then? I assume you have sources which indicate that the puppies do show signs of extreme pain, despite what the other poster claimed. Do you also have anything which explains the physical mechanism that causes this pain during the tail-docking procedure? I am doing some research on it myself, but I’m curious what sources you personally are turning to for your information.
If nothing else, why on Earth would her dog be “ruined”? It’s not like the dog couldn’t have a litter with another father. Not that I’d advise that. People like her make me want to scream.
Break the vertebrae? I might have missed something, but I’ve never heard of that being done.
All the tail docks I’ve ever seen were a quick snip between vertebrae, a poke with a silver nitrate stick, and a stitch. The puppy would squeak once or twice and go right back to sleep. All in all, a whole hell of a lot less horrifying than watching a circumcision.
Another poster said that their docked dog had constant irritation at the wound site for its entire life. I don’t know how common it is, but I’d guess it happens sometimes. After all, things can get infected, this is amputation you’re talking about.
I’m along the lines of those who think it’s cruel, perhaps less cruel than a broken tail that bleeds all the time and has to be amputated anyway, but isn’t that kind of a harsh thing to have to consider? I am not totally anti-dog breeding since there are some breeds that are better at things than mixed dogs (i.e. collies for sheep herding), but when you create a breed with a maladaptive trait on purpose, there seems to be something wrong there. I am totally anti-cat breeding.
By the way, Catsix, I know you’re horrified at the prospect, but having seen many thousands of docks done myself, I’m just amused at your reaction. I can understand, even support, being against the cosmetic surgical altering of dogs–I own a traditionally ear-cropped breed and chose to leave his ears natural–but getting all huffy about the horrors of the docking process when you’ve clearly never seen it done is nothing but amusing.
Really, judging by the reaction of the puppies and the dam who’s often in the room with them, it’s equivalent to ear piercing. I’ve never seen vertebrae broken or tails “ripped” or “twisted” off. On the list of terrible things that people do to animals, it’s nowhere near the top of my list.
Well, I’m sure cutting off a baby’s finger wouldn’t be that painful either, that doesn’t mean you should do it. And I have to believe there are more complications from docking than ear piercing, after all, piercings can close up. A dog can’t grow its tail back.
My dog is a Dogo Argentino. They’re boar hunting dogs. Unlike most working breeds, they are almost exclusively used for hunting–there are some in the US kept for pets and such, but outside this country keeping one as a pet is almost unheard of. Their ears are cropped extremely short, almost all the ear flap removed, because if a boar opens the ear in the field they’ll bleed like hell, and the amount of blood loss can very certainly mean the difference between a surviving dog and a dead one. I chose not to crop my dog because we don’t hunt him, so it would have been a purely aesthetic choice and I couldn’t justify doing it. He’s two and a half now, and I wish I would have cropped him. Every time he shakes his head–whether it’s because he’s just gotten out of the lake or he’s playing with a toy, or I’ve just cleaned his ears–he splits the tips of his ear flaps open as they whip against the side of his head. He’s now got permanant scabs and scar tissue at the tips of his ears and the walls in my house look like there’s a dog fighting pit in my bedroom because there’s splatters of blood all over the place. He’s a white dog, so the smears of blood on his cheeks make him look like we feed him small children. We have to wipe the walls down every time the scabs split open. Vets have no solution other than to crop him, which we may end up doing. Unfortunately, since we didn’t do it at twelve weeks that means most of his outer ear would have to be removed since they won’t stand. His ears are beautiful and I don’t want to cut them off, but I do feel bad about the way they are now, bleeding all the time.
Babies can’t grow their foreskins back either, but we still do it. It’s a cosmetic choice that people make. I think it’s sick, but that doesn’t stop people from doing it.
