# I hereby nominate the city of Boston, Mass., for having the dumbest... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 25, 2005, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-nominate-the-city-of-boston-mass-for-having-the-dumbest/327756 "2005-10-25T00:59:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-nominate-the-city-of-boston-mass-for-having-the-dumbest/327756/41 "2005-10-25T17:31:25Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I rode the buses a couple of times, and the bus passengers were generally fine. > > It was mainly on the T, on the green line (usually the “B” train) that the crowding and refusing to move in happened. It could be that this line is not typical of all the T lines, and/or that my initial theory about the main culprits being college students was correct. IMHO it’s because the green line is the most fucked up line. There aren’t enough trains (the T bought millions of dollars worth without testing them, and these turned out not to work on that line, so they’re chronically short) and the sardine can effect is in full force. This, by the way is the line (D) where I will fight to stay near the doors. ---
**Author:** ![Orual](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orual](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orual)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-nominate-the-city-of-boston-mass-for-having-the-dumbest/327756/42 "2005-10-25T17:42:15Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > It was mainly on the T, on the green line (usually the “B” train) that the crowding and refusing to move in happened. It could be that this line is not typical of all the T lines, and/or that my **initial theory about the main culprits being college students was correct.** Bingo. The B line is effectively the Boston University shuttle service. There’s a much higher concentration of clueless freshman and other assorted college dopes on that line. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-nominate-the-city-of-boston-mass-for-having-the-dumbest/327756/43 "2005-10-25T17:50:04Z")
**mhendo** , I don’t mean to call you a liar, but you did start off the OP by indirectly calling me – and a bunch of other Dopers – stupid. Don’t be offended if we don’t take that well, or if we challenge you on your accusations. > [@mhendo](#): > > It was mainly on the T, on the green line (usually the “B” train) that the crowding and refusing to move in happened. It could be that this line is not typical of all the T lines, and/or that my initial theory about the main culprits being college students was correct. I’ve not noticed it any worse on the B than on any other train, trolley, or bus. Yes, that particular line does get painfully crowded, but it’ll be crowed throughout, not just in the doorways. And yes, there will always be one or two morons who hang out right in the doorway and won’t move for you. And they’re easy enough to step on. But I never see the massed glut that you talk about. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-nominate-the-city-of-boston-mass-for-having-the-dumbest/327756/44 "2005-10-25T17:50:43Z")
The E line can get pretty bad too, with all the clueless people from Longwood and Northeastern. Like I said, this is Boston. Maybe it’s trying to be Rome or something, I don’t know. As for “rules” mentioned above: The rules are if the guy slows down for the yellow light, you tap your horn. If he flakes out when it turns green and hesitates, you lay on the horn. If he cuts you off, you flip him off. Then you forget about it. Everything else is pretty much fair play. The only cardinal sin is hitting somebody. You can drive _as if_ you’re in a demolition derby, but you _cannot_ cause a collision with a moving car. Parked cars? Nobody witnesses, no foul, buddy. (Witness my old Honda, which accumulated more than $2000 worth of damage while parked on the streets of Boston, Cambridge, and Somerville…each incident no more than $100 over the deductable :smack:) ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-nominate-the-city-of-boston-mass-for-having-the-dumbest/327756/45 "2005-10-25T17:51:47Z")
Damn coding… should have been a :smack: ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-nominate-the-city-of-boston-mass-for-having-the-dumbest/327756/46 "2005-10-25T17:56:01Z")
> [@uglybeech](#): > > This, by the way is the line (D) where I will fight to stay near the doors. So that was you, huh? :dubious: Let’s face it, when we’re talking about the D line, we know who the real problem people are. It ain’t the college students. It ain’t the high school students (usually). It ain’t the rush hour commuters. Oh no. Have you noticed that the worst problems tend to occur in the Summer? And that those problems tend to disappear just after you leave the Fenway stop? Yeah, you know who I’m talking about. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-nominate-the-city-of-boston-mass-for-having-the-dumbest/327756/47 "2005-10-25T18:09:28Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > Parked cars? Nobody witnesses, no foul, buddy. (Witness my old Honda, which accumulated more than $2000 worth of damage while parked on the streets of Boston, Cambridge, and Somerville…each incident no more than $100 over the deductable :smack:) The other week I was walking up Brookline Ave, with Simmons on my left. Suddenly I was showered in shards of glass and plastic. Seems that some driver was not concerned that some sideview mirrors on parked cars actually protrude. The offending drive never even slowed down. ---
**Author:** ![aamco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@aamco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aamco)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-nominate-the-city-of-boston-mass-for-having-the-dumbest/327756/48 "2005-10-25T18:27:04Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I’ve spent time in New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, Washington, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal, London, Hong Kong, Singapore, Sydney, Melbourne, Tokyo, and other cities that i’ve probably forgotten … The reason for listing those cities was simply to demonstrate that i have considerable experience with “real” cities What do you want, a cookie? What’s to stop me from just claiming none of those are real cities and flame you right back? What does having lived in Tokyo have to do with your whiny attitude towards a city that’s _proud_ of having asshole drivers and asshole pedestrians? > [@mhendo](#): > > you think that walking out in front of moving cars isn’t problematic. Nowhere in my response did I suggest that any of the behaviors you listed were sensical, beneficial, or even justifiable. That won’t change the fact that they’re going to do it whether or not you are annoyed, so the most rational solution to the problem is to fucking deal with it. > [@mhendo](#): > > My rant had to do with the behaviour of pedestrians and transit riders in Boston Why don’t you pit people who break the speed limit, or people who don’t floss, while you’re at it? The pedestrians and transit riders of Boston have developed a comprehensive, self-consistent plan for getting around the city. Namely, “when I’m walking, I hate it when people drive like I drive, and when I’m driving, I hate it when people walk like I walk.” The system works and if you don’t like it, fuck you. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-nominate-the-city-of-boston-mass-for-having-the-dumbest/327756/49 "2005-10-25T18:33:12Z")
> [@aamco](#): > > “when I’m walking, I hate it when people drive like I drive, and when I’m driving, I hate it when people walk like I walk.” But why not drive like you’d like people to drive, and walk like you’d like people to walk? That would make everyone’s life so much more pleasant. I don’t understand being proud of being an asshole driver or pedestrian. ---
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-nominate-the-city-of-boston-mass-for-having-the-dumbest/327756/50 "2005-10-25T18:46:59Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > So that was you, huh? mmmaybe… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Orual](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orual](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orual)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-nominate-the-city-of-boston-mass-for-having-the-dumbest/327756/51 "2005-10-25T18:48:22Z")
> [@Anne Neville](#): > > But why not drive like you’d like people to drive, and walk like you’d like people to walk? That would make everyone’s life so much more pleasant. If you did this in Boston you would get killed. > [@Anne Neville](#): > > I don’t understand being proud of being an asshole driver or pedestrian. I’m not proud of being an assohole. I am happy that I’ve developed the skills necessary to survive in my environment. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-nominate-the-city-of-boston-mass-for-having-the-dumbest/327756/52 "2005-10-25T18:49:21Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > 1. Not having spent any time behind the wheel of a car, i have no real comment on Boston drivers. For the most part, they seemed pretty patient and considerate with the douchebag pedestrians. This is very hilarious. Massachussetts is the most fucked up place to drive in the world, the fuckedupness decrease as your distance from Boston increases – not that you claimed otherwise. What I’ve found is that you need to be familiar with every known traffic behavior in the world to drive around there. Ever driven in France? People pulling onto the street in front of your vehicle from the right have the right of way. Apparently, this applies in Mass, too. Sometimes. Ever seen completely unmarked rotaries like at L’Arc D Triomphe, the colliseum, or your generic Indian clsuterfuck where cars are just moving like water molecules willy-nilly? Same thing in Boston. Except there are lines on the road to confuse newcomers. Shit. . .for good measure you might as well practice driving on the left side of the road. Never know when that might come in useful up there. When considering a move to MA once, I called my insurance company. IIRC, they insure in 49 states, but not MA. Other insurance companies just would have doubled my rate. Driving in MA is epically famously insane among easterners. Nothing compares, and I’ve done plenty of driving in every major east coast city between DC and Bangor. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-nominate-the-city-of-boston-mass-for-having-the-dumbest/327756/53 "2005-10-25T19:03:33Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > Except there are lines on the road to confuse newcomers. Not always. > [@](#): > > Driving in MA is epically famously insane among easterners. Nothing compares, and I’ve done plenty of driving in every major east coast city between DC and Bangor. I’ve heard that Hartford is even worse. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-nominate-the-city-of-boston-mass-for-having-the-dumbest/327756/54 "2005-10-25T19:07:50Z")
> [@aamco](#): > > What do you want, a cookie? > > What’s to stop me from just claiming none of those are real cities and flame you right back? > > What does having lived in Tokyo have to do with your whiny attitude towards a city that’s _proud_ of having asshole drivers and asshole pedestrians? None of those are real cities? If you think that those cities are less “real” than Boston, it demonstrates little except your own provincial insularity. > [@aamco](#): > > Nowhere in my response did I suggest that any of the behaviors you listed were sensical, beneficial, or even justifiable. That won’t change the fact that they’re going to do it whether or not you are annoyed, so the most rational solution to the problem is to fucking deal with it. I did deal with it, moron. Doesn’t mean i can’t complain about it. Can i assume, from your attitude, that you have never once complained about anything that it was beyond your powers to control? > [@aamco](#): > > Why don’t you pit people who break the speed limit, or people who don’t floss, while you’re at it? The pedestrians and transit riders of Boston have developed a comprehensive, self-consistent plan for getting around the city. Namely, “when I’m walking, I hate it when people drive like I drive, and when I’m driving, I hate it when people walk like I walk.” The system works and if you don’t like it, fuck you. Because people who don’t floss are of no inconvenience to me, you peckerwood. Furthermore, your assertions notwithstanding, it’s not even clear to me that the system developed by Bostonians does “work,” in any meaningful sense of the word. As far as i could tell, all it does is make getting around less pleasant _and_ less efficient. But if that works for you, hey, go ahead, knock yourself out. In your case, you’d do us a favour if you took that advice literally. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-nominate-the-city-of-boston-mass-for-having-the-dumbest/327756/55 "2005-10-25T19:09:33Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > Shit. . .for good measure you might as well practice driving on the left side of the road. Never know when that might come in useful up there. Well, coming from Australia, i’ve got that one covered. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-nominate-the-city-of-boston-mass-for-having-the-dumbest/327756/56 "2005-10-25T19:15:44Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > This is very hilarious. Massachussetts is the most fucked up place to drive in the world, the fuckedupness decrease as your distance from Boston increases – not that you claimed otherwise. Soooo…SoCal drivers are the least fucked up in the country? I might agree with that as long as we exclude rainy days. ---
**Author:** ![aamco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@aamco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aamco)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-nominate-the-city-of-boston-mass-for-having-the-dumbest/327756/57 "2005-10-25T21:10:36Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > it demonstrates little except your own provincial insularity. That would be all fine and dandy if I actually did live in Boston. It’s convinient but erroneous to assume that an objective assessment of your inadequacy is fueled by some ulterior motive. > [@mhendo](#): > > Can i assume, from your attitude, that you have never once complained about anything that it was beyond your powers to control? You’re absolutely right, of course. I used to complain all the time about things beyond my powers to control. Then I turned fucking 15. > [@mhendo](#): > > it’s not even clear to me that the system developed by Bostonians does “work,” in any meaningful sense of the word. Your lack of observation couldn’t be more apparent. The jaywalkers get to their destination faster. Since most people walk rather than drive, the most efficient way to get the majority of people to their destinations is to fuck the drivers over. > [@mhendo](#): > > go ahead, knock yourself out. In your case, you’d do us a favour if you took that advice literally. I particularly enjoy how you use the first person plural despite the likely majority of posters who have disagreed with you. Not only are you attempting an _ad populum_ argument, you’re not even fucking doing it right. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-nominate-the-city-of-boston-mass-for-having-the-dumbest/327756/58 "2005-10-25T21:55:10Z")
> [@aamco](#): > > That would be all fine and dandy if I actually did live in Boston. It’s convinient but erroneous to assume that an objective assessment of your inadequacy is fueled by some ulterior motive. I don’t attribute your assessment to ulterior motives. Your stupidity is an entirely sufficient explanation. > [@aamco](#): > > You’re absolutely right, of course. I used to complain all the time about things beyond my powers to control. > > Then I turned fucking 15. You’ve turned 15? I apologize then. Your posts suggest otherwise. > [@aamco](#): > > Your lack of observation couldn’t be more apparent. The jaywalkers get to their destination faster. Since most people walk rather than drive, the most efficient way to get the majority of people to their destinations is to fuck the drivers over. But that behaviour simply leads the drivers to also have no consideration for pedestrians. It’s a vicious circle which, if broken in its entirety, might prove beneficial to all concerned. > [@aamco](#): > > I particularly enjoy how you use the first person plural despite the likely majority of posters who have disagreed with you. Not only are you attempting an _ad populum_ argument, you’re not even fucking doing it right. I was making no _ad populum_ argument. The “us” was generic, employed merely for effect. Furthermore, most people, even you, have conceded that my summary of the behaviour of Boston pedestrians is pretty accurate. There’s virtually no disagreement on that issue at all. The main matter of disagreement is whether there was any point complaining about it. You feel there wasn’t; good for you. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me. I only took umbrage at your irrelevant and idiotic suggestion that my complaint stemmed from some personal inability to deal with big city traffic. Now, go play in that traffic, child. ---
**Author:** ![anu-la1979](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/47e85d/32.png) [@anu-la1979](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anu-la1979)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-nominate-the-city-of-boston-mass-for-having-the-dumbest/327756/59 "2005-10-25T22:18:19Z")
Have they gotten rid of those ancient left turn signals on Memorial Drive where it just posts a solid green and you’re just supposed to be aware that there isn’t going to be a left arrow but the people on the other side of the intersection are on a timed delay to allow you to turn left? I hated those. Mainly because everyone NotFromBoston would sit there and wait for the left green arrow that would never come. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-nominate-the-city-of-boston-mass-for-having-the-dumbest/327756/60 "2005-10-25T23:43:56Z")
> [@aamco](#): > > That would be all fine and dandy if I actually did live in Boston. It’s convinient but erroneous to assume that an objective assessment of your inadequacy is fueled by some ulterior motive. Well, if you aren’t from Boston, stop trying to make those of us who are (well, Cambridge is close enough) out to be assholes and proud of it. > [@mhendo](#): > > But that behaviour simply leads the drivers to also have no consideration for pedestrians. It’s a vicious circle which, if broken in its entirety, might prove beneficial to all concerned. Well, that’s just not going to happen. The simple fact is that trying to get through the streets of Boston is always going to be aggravating and difficult, and people are always going to try cutting corners. In response to this, the city over time has developed its own system of coping that takes some getting used to, and involves everybody trying to out-asshole each other. Also, it allows complete idiots to wander across the street pretty much at will (the law on the books, I believe, calls for a $1 fine for aywalking) with no consequence. The system could certainly use improvement, but there’s a limit to what could possibly be done to make things nice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-nominate-the-city-of-boston-mass-for-having-the-dumbest/327756.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-nominate-the-city-of-boston-mass-for-having-the-dumbest/327756.md?page=4)