# I hereby pit greedy movie studios. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 29, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-greedy-movie-studios/607738 "2011-12-29T17:34:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-greedy-movie-studios/607738/21 "2011-12-29T22:52:03Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > Would you expect the car you pick up at Enterprise to be without a working heater because it’s just the rental model? > Do you want the chainsaw you rent at Home Depot to not have a rotating motor because that only comes on the items for purchase? > Would you expect the escort you hired…hmm…ok, scratch that one. These are ridiculous examples, except for the escort. > [@](#): > > Rentals aren’t about paying less for a lower quality product. The point of them is to get the same product but maintain possession of them for a finite period of time. Says who? Renting gives you usage for a limited time, it doesn’t mean what you rent has to conform to some arbitrary standard of quality. > [@](#): > > But even if you disagree with that assumption, there’s a larger issue to contend with. If the rental is placed in a box indistinguishable from a full DVD that you can purchase, a very strong case can be made for false advertising. I would strongly urge a complaint be made to the FTC regarding this issue. I do agree with that part. But there’s probably some fine print somewhere that covers these things already. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-greedy-movie-studios/607738/22 "2011-12-29T23:02:22Z")
I guess the real issue for the OP would be whether it means you will rent fewer movies, because I don’t see how the studios doing this is preventing you from buying movies your were just renting in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-greedy-movie-studios/607738/23 "2011-12-29T23:39:21Z")
I’m curious how this is being implemented? I thought rental shops just bought movies retail and then rented them out. How then is there a “rental version”? Are rental stores being offered some special price to offer the lesser version by the studios? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-greedy-movie-studios/607738/24 "2011-12-29T23:50:46Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > I’m curious how this is being implemented? I thought rental shops just bought movies retail and then rented them out. How then is there a “rental version”? Are rental stores being offered some special price to offer the lesser version by the studios? Yes. First, video rental stores aren’t supposed to be buying regular retail copies. They’re supposed to be buying higher-priced copies that reimburse the studios for the larger audience that will supposedly view them. Second, Blockbuster signs deals with the studios. They help finance movies in exchange for getting discounts on future pruchases of rental copies and in some cases, exclusive rental rights for a period ahead of other venues. Part of these deals are they have special “rental” copies that don’t include the same features as retail copies. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-greedy-movie-studios/607738/25 "2011-12-30T00:10:51Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Yes. First, video rental stores aren’t supposed to be buying regular retail copies. They’re supposed to be buying higher-priced copies that reimburse the studios for the larger audience that will supposedly view them. Do you have a cite? I could easily be wrong, but I thought the copyright laws were such that once you had bought a retail copy of a disk, there wasn’t anything preventing you from renting it out for a fee, irregardless of the potential sizes of the audience that might take advantage. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-greedy-movie-studios/607738/26 "2011-12-30T00:18:11Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > They could at least stop calling them “bonus” features, since they’re now actually part of a “premium” package (sold at a “premium”). Maybe I’m just stupid, but “Bonus” pretty much implies “Premium” to me. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Yes. First, video rental stores aren’t supposed to be buying regular retail copies. They’re supposed to be buying higher-priced copies that reimburse the studios for the larger audience that will supposedly view them. This was last true in 1998. Since then, movie studios have sold rental shops the same retail disc (for the same price) that you can get on Amazon or Best Buy or what have you. “Rental Copies” also regularly carry the same price as their retail counterparts. If there is a price difference, it’s typically in a range of $3-$5. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-greedy-movie-studios/607738/27 "2011-12-30T00:22:04Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Do you have a cite? I could easily be wrong, but I thought the copyright laws were such that once you had bought a retail copy of a disk, there wasn’t anything preventing you from renting it out for a fee, irregardless of the potential sizes of the audience that might take advantage. Interestingly, the first cite I saw to support this was an earlier SDBM thread: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-402985.html](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-402985.html) I do know that when I play a DVD or blu-ray at home, the first thing I see is that it may not be exhibited in public or for pay. That would seem to suggest that I can’t rent it out either, though it’s hard to imagine how they’d enforce that. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-greedy-movie-studios/607738/28 "2011-12-30T00:29:15Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > It’s “greedy” for a movie producer to offer different amounts of content for different price points? > > Why isn’t it “greedy” for you to want it all for the lower price point? When in some cases “content” means “ability for people with disabilities to use the product”? Well, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-greedy-movie-studios/607738/29 "2011-12-30T00:33:54Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > How much do you think a movie studio makes from each incidence of rental? If you’re renting through Netflix or Blockbuster or Redbox or some such third-party service, then they’re not getting paid for each rental, only the initial purchase of the disc by the rental company. I don’t know if Amazon or Itunes pay royalties for each rental, but if they do, it’s a pretty small amount compared to an actual sale. > > And I still don’t get the objection. If you want more features, more content, then why shouldn’t you have to pay more? That exactly how all other goods and services work. Yeah, my example wasn’t a good one. **Enderw24** and **Eyebrows of Doom** make better arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-greedy-movie-studios/607738/30 "2011-12-30T00:34:08Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > Interestingly, the first cite I saw to support this was an earlier SDBM thread: > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-402985.html](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-402985.html) I think most of the posters in that thread are supporting what I said, that there isn’t any way for studios to charge extra for a DVD if the purchaser intends to rent it. Some have apparently explored exclusivity schemes with rental companies, but in general, it looks like if I want to start a video rental store, I can just go buy a bunch of retail copies from Walmart and charge people to borrow them. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-greedy-movie-studios/607738/31 "2011-12-30T00:53:06Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Do you have a cite? I could easily be wrong, but I thought the copyright laws were such that once you had bought a retail copy of a disk, there wasn’t anything preventing you from renting it out for a fee, irregardless of the potential sizes of the audience that might take advantage. My cites are personal. I knew two people who ran rental stores and they both told me they had to pay more for their rental copies than I paid for my home viewing copies. I also used to rent movies for a prison. We had to pay a special higher rental rate because we were considered an institution. Most videos that were sold for rental were only legal for “regular” rental viewing not institutional viewing where dozens or even hundreds of people might watch them. That said, two caveats. The first is that the studios are pretty limited in their ability to enforce these rules. If Joe’s Video Shack goes out and buy his DVD’s at the local Best Buy, he’s probably never going to be caught. And my personal knowledge of this dates back to the nineties - Justin\_Bailey may be correct that the laws have changed since then. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-greedy-movie-studios/607738/32 "2011-12-30T01:14:27Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Do you have a cite? I could easily be wrong, but I thought the copyright laws were such that once you had bought a retail copy of a disk, there wasn’t anything preventing you from renting it out for a fee, irregardless of the potential sizes of the audience that might take advantage. The First Sale Doctrine, which is codified in the Copyright Act of 1976 as 17 U.S.C. § 109, says that if you legally buy “a particular copy or phonorecord,” you have the right to “sell or otherwise dispose of the possession of that copy or phonorecord.” However, Section 109(b) explains that “sell or otherwise dispose of” does not mean “disposal of, the possession of that phonorecord or computer program (including any tape, disk, or other medium embodying such program) by rental, lease, or lending, or by any other act or practice in the nature of rental, lease, or lending” if you are doing it for profit. So renting out a DVD for profit is infringing if you don’t get the copyright owner’s permission. And many of them will only give you permission if you pay a premium for it. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-greedy-movie-studios/607738/33 "2011-12-30T01:17:34Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Remember when there were no ads in movies in movie theatres or on movies that you had bought? Yeah, I do too. Changing the options for rental dvds is pretty low. > > I thought this rant was going to be about movie studios putting out the most lowest-common-denomitor shit for movies because they cost less than making an actually decent movie. The movie theatres are the ones selling the ads in the theatre. Heck the studios are paying them to put up ads. I’ve never seen an ad on a dvd except for trailers for other movies and PSAs about how piracy is bad, m’kay? ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-greedy-movie-studios/607738/34 "2011-12-30T01:18:26Z")
Isn’t it Blockbuster and not the studio that is greedy in this scenario. After all, nothing is preventing Blockbuster from just buying the regular DVDs and then renting them out. But no, they said to the studios “we want you to sell us DVDs for less than you sell them to other people.” And the studios said “hmm…, that doesn’t make much sense. How about we’ll give you DVDs with less on them for less money? And we’re not going to do more than the bare minimum to create these different versions so the user experience will be full of suck. Do you really want to do that to your customers?” And Blockbuster said “yeah, ok, that’ll let us keep charging the same amount for the rentals and yet make more profit. Sounds good to me and I’m sure the customers won’t notice.” So the anger seems misplaced to me. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-greedy-movie-studios/607738/35 "2011-12-30T01:24:14Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > So renting out a DVD for profit is infringing if you don’t get the copyright owner’s permission. It is not. This exception has never been extended to VHS/DVD. This is why video rental stores were all over the place and album rental stores were not. See NEBG v. Weinstein where this was litigated in favor of rental companies for DVDs specifically. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-greedy-movie-studios/607738/36 "2011-12-30T01:27:18Z")
Ah, I forgot that phonorecords are audio only. ---
**Author:** ![LeeshaJoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LeeshaJoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeeshaJoy)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-greedy-movie-studios/607738/37 "2011-12-30T01:40:32Z")
I suspect having special “rental” discs with limited functionality is also an anti-piracy measure. After all, it’d be easy to just rent a DVD, rip all the data from it, and then return the original disc once you have your own copy made. If the rental copies are different from the retail copies, at least _some_body will be paying full price for discs they own. Of course, it’s all pretty much moot since everyone’s moving away from movie rentals and toward on-demand video streaming. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-greedy-movie-studios/607738/38 "2011-12-30T01:52:32Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > How much do you think a movie studio makes from each incidence of rental? If you’re renting through Netflix or Blockbuster or Redbox or some such third-party service, then they’re not getting paid for each rental, only the initial purchase of the disc by the rental company. I don’t know if Amazon or Itunes pay royalties for each rental, but if they do, it’s a pretty small amount compared to an actual sale. I don’t think this is correct. AFAIK, rental places like Blockbuster, Redbox, Netflix, etc. pay a fee to the studio for every DVD rental. [ > [@](#): > > The standard business model for video rental stores was that they would pay a large flat fee per video, approximately US$65, and have unlimited rentals for the lifetime of the medium itself. Sumner Redstone, whose Viacom conglomerate then owned Blockbuster, personally pioneered a new revenue-sharing arrangement for video, in the mid-1990s.\*\* Blockbuster obtained videos for little cost and kept 60 percent rental fee, paying the other 40 percent to the studio\*\*, and reporting rental information through Rentrak. ]([Blockbuster (retailer) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockbuster_LLC)) I looked for concrete up-to-date info, but obviously companies are gonna want to keep that info from their competitors, so I had no luck. (I didn’t try hard tho; I got no real dog in this fight.) ---
**Author:** ![Pine\_Fresh\_Scent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/43a26b/32.png) [@Pine\_Fresh\_Scent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pine_Fresh_Scent)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-greedy-movie-studios/607738/39 "2011-12-30T05:42:56Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > 'I love Michael Bay and all that he stands for and must must must see the behind the scenes making of footage of ’ Testosteronix 4: Rise Of The Phallus ’ ". I never laugh at work, so now everyone knows I’m goofing off. Well played. I’m just going to put my head on my desk for a minute or two until I can get my work face back on. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-greedy-movie-studios/607738/40 "2011-12-30T06:48:22Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I don’t think this is correct. AFAIK, rental places like Blockbuster, Redbox, Netflix, etc. pay a fee to the studio for every DVD rental. They do, but they are not required to. They do so because they have agreements with the studios that makes it financially beneficial to do so, not because they are required by law to get a license. > [@Ascenray](#): > > The First Sale Doctrine, which is codified in the Copyright Act of 1976 as 17 U.S.C. § 109, says that if you legally buy “a particular copy or phonorecord,” you have the right to “sell or otherwise dispose of the possession of that copy or phonorecord.” > However, Section 109(b) explains that “sell or otherwise dispose of” does not mean “disposal of, the possession of that phonorecord or computer program (including any tape, disk, or other medium embodying such program) by rental, lease, or lending, or by any other act or practice in the nature of rental, lease, or lending” if you are doing it for profit. That particular provision applies only to musical recordings and software. The incredibly convoluted sentence you’re quoting starts with > [@US Copyright Law](#): > > copyright in the **sound recording** or the owner of copyright in a **computer program** (including any tape, disk, or other medium embodying such program), and in the case of a sound recording in the musical works embodied therein, neither the owner of a particular phonorecord nor any person in possession of a particular copy of a computer program (emphasis mine) [Cite](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/usc_sec_17_00000109----000-.html) You really can go into Walmart, buy some DVDs, and rent them to people. No special license or legal agreements required. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-greedy-movie-studios/607738.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-greedy-movie-studios/607738.md?page=3)