# I hereby pit Terry Francona, Braindead Douchebag of the Year **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 19, 2007, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-terry-francona-braindead-douchebag-of-the-year/419710 "2007-09-19T04:31:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-terry-francona-braindead-douchebag-of-the-year/419710/41 "2007-09-20T19:00:40Z")
[QUOTE=D\_Odds] And should the BoSox somehow steal the World Series again, I promise the same. However, I’ll mean about 110% of it. 🆒 [/QUOTE] Heh. > [@](#): > > Yankees have youth at 1B (Phillips), 2B (Cano), CF (Cabrera). For your sake, I hope you’re not relying on Andy Phillips as the centerpiece of the next great Yankee lineup. I mean, every team has _young_ players; the problem is finding _good_ young players. > [@](#): > > Jeter and A-Rod are in their prime, and should both have 4-6 more really good years left minimum (although whether or not A-Rod stays a Yankee is another story). Derek Jeter is 33 years old. Nobody loves Captain Intangible more than I, but it is fairly unlikely that he will be the same player at 37 as he is today. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-terry-francona-braindead-douchebag-of-the-year/419710/42 "2007-09-20T19:02:57Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] Compared to the way Farnsworth and company were pitching, I do think it’s significant psychologically, if nothing else. And it’s significant that they got a productive reliever from their farm system instead of overpaying for a player who couldn’t have done much better. Besides, his pitching indicates he will be ready next year, either as a starter or setup man. I don’t know if they even expected anything from him in 2008, and he otherwise would have been a rookie question mark. [/QUOTE] Actually Chamberlain was ranked #2 in the farm system and was slated to either have a chance to join the team in 2008 out of spring or by July. The biggest question with him has been scouts debating if he will be a 3 or better starter or a Closer someday. Ian Kennedy was ranked 3rd after the injury to Sanchez. There is another kid, that is also recovering from Tommy John surgery that is also thought to be a potential 3 or better pitcher. His name escapes me at the moment. Kennedy, I believe is the bigger surprise than Joba. Jim ---
**Author:** ![rockle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/73ab20/32.png) [@rockle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rockle)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-terry-francona-braindead-douchebag-of-the-year/419710/43 "2007-09-20T20:30:35Z")
[QUOTE=John DiFool] **I hereby pit Terry Francona, Braindead Douchebag of the Year** [/QUOTE] “… of the _year_?” Of the _YEAR?_ Try “… of the _ **EVER!** _” But I admit I’m not rational – when I’m not cheering for the Red Sox, I’m cheering for the Phillies, and between the two of them I’m pretty sure I’m about to have a stroke or 75 before the end of the month. So I know what a big fat goober Tito is. Sorry to derail. But, _I feel your pain_, is my point. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-terry-francona-braindead-douchebag-of-the-year/419710/44 "2007-09-20T20:36:44Z")
[QUOTE=rockle] “… of the _year_?” Of the _YEAR?_ Try “… of the _ **EVER!** _” But I admit I’m not rational – when I’m not cheering for the Red Sox, I’m cheering for the Phillies, and between the two of them I’m pretty sure I’m about to have a stroke or 75 before the end of the month. So I know what a big fat goober Tito is. Sorry to derail. But, _I feel your pain_, is my point. [/QUOTE] Didn’t the guy win y’all a World Series? Isn’t there, like, a 5-year grace period after something like that? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-terry-francona-braindead-douchebag-of-the-year/419710/45 "2007-09-20T20:41:26Z")
[QUOTE=storyteller0910] Didn’t the guy win y’all a World Series? Isn’t there, like, a 5-year grace period after something like that? [/QUOTE] I can’t figure that one out either. After 86 years, I would have thought Francona and Theo would have a little more of a grace period. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![rockle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/73ab20/32.png) [@rockle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rockle)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-terry-francona-braindead-douchebag-of-the-year/419710/46 "2007-09-20T20:47:24Z")
[QUOTE=storyteller0910] Didn’t the guy win y’all a World Series? Isn’t there, like, a 5-year grace period after something like that? [/QUOTE] Hey, I _said_ I wasn’t rational. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-terry-francona-braindead-douchebag-of-the-year/419710/47 "2007-09-20T20:49:55Z")
[QUOTE=storyteller0910] Will Cashman and the team’s administration be willing to lose face to that extent, having made a public declaration and then abandoned it? [/quote] “Lose face” my eye. The “we will not pursue him” thing is a negotiating tactic to keep him from opting out (ideally) or to keep his asking price down if he does, since the presence of the Yankees in any free agent negotiation automatically drives up the price. If they keep him, the “we will not pursue him” thing will be forgotten in a day. The team will lose more face if Rodriguez leaves and goes elsewhere than if he stays. All other things being equal - and the money may not be - I think he’d rather stay in New York instead of leaving and being branded a failure on the biggest stage. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-terry-francona-braindead-douchebag-of-the-year/419710/48 "2007-09-20T20:59:11Z")
[QUOTE=storyteller0910] Didn’t the guy win y’all a World Series? Isn’t there, like, a 5-year grace period after something like that? [/QUOTE] **rockle** appears to be a Phillies fan. Francona managed the Phillies for 4 years, and his best season was 77-85. So she’s got every right to loathe him. ---
**Author:** ![Scruloose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@Scruloose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scruloose)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-terry-francona-braindead-douchebag-of-the-year/419710/49 "2007-09-20T21:53:07Z")
Ah, the whine of Red Sox nation. The ever-present and annoying background noise that was briefly silenced for a few hours in late October of 2004. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-terry-francona-braindead-douchebag-of-the-year/419710/50 "2007-09-20T21:58:48Z")
[QUOTE=Scruloose] Ah, the whine of Red Sox nation. The ever-present and annoying background noise that was briefly silenced for a few hours in late October of 2004. [/QUOTE] Hey, we haven’t won a World Series in three years! Do you know what that’s like? ---
**Author:** ![rockle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/73ab20/32.png) [@rockle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rockle)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-terry-francona-braindead-douchebag-of-the-year/419710/51 "2007-09-20T22:08:51Z")
[QUOTE=muldoonthief] **rockle** appears to be a Phillies fan. Francona managed the Phillies for 4 years, and his best season was 77-85. So she’s got every right to loathe him. [/QUOTE] Yes, I am. Well, more precisely: a Phillies fan by birth, a Yankee hater by breeding, and a Red Sox fan by marriage – in that order. (I know, it’s goofy and complicated.) Terry Francona has a middle name around here, and it’s the same as Bucky Dent’s and Aaron Boone’s (and Mitch Williams’s, for that matter). ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-terry-francona-braindead-douchebag-of-the-year/419710/52 "2007-09-20T22:16:15Z")
You can’t blame Francona for last night’s game. The Sox were only down 1 run when he brought in Papelbon to try and hold them. It was the right move. If I was a Sox fan (I jut threw up in my mouth a little as I typed that… 😛 ) I’d be more upset about the Grand Salami your Closer served up with October looming… Just sayin’… ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-terry-francona-braindead-douchebag-of-the-year/419710/53 "2007-09-21T14:25:37Z")
[QUOTE=storyteller0910] For your sake, I hope you’re not relying on Andy Phillips as the centerpiece of the next great Yankee lineup. I mean, every team has _young_ players; the problem is finding _good_ young players. [/quote] Ain’t that the truth. That said, Phillips bat isn’t first baseman quality, but neither is Mientkiewicz this year. Both can play the position. > [@](#): > > Derek Jeter is 33 years old. Nobody loves Captain Intangible more than I, but it is fairly unlikely that he will be the same player at 37 as he is today. Jeter has been lucky to stay injury-free thus far. If the luck holds, he’ll still be there in 4, but probably not 6. Same with A-Rod (for whichever team he is with). He’s a year younger, so he’s got 5 years or so as a force in the field, and hopefully 8-9 at the plate. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-terry-francona-braindead-douchebag-of-the-year/419710/54 "2007-09-21T14:28:19Z")
[QUOTE=storyteller0910] (2) Will Alex want to come back? Look, say you got a job. And say for three years you performed in that job pretty well - better than any one of your co-workers, really one of the best in your industry. But for some reason, your co-workers hated you. The company shareholders made a point of discussing how little they thought of you, personally and professionally, in any forum they could find. Your accomplishments are constantly belittled, minimized, your modest failings trumpeted. Now, one year, you outperform even your own lofty standards. You lead your company to record profits. The shareholders are suddenly delighted with you. The company offers you a nice raise, nice bonus, to stay around. But another company, in another city that suits you better as a person, offers you comparable money to come work for them. Their shareholders have been kind to you in the media; the employees there are all eager to work with you. You know perfectly well that the people in and around your present employer will gleefully return to cutting you to pieces the first time you slip up. Isn’t there a part of you that would turn to your current employer, chuckle, and say, _fuck y’all_, before heading off to Anaheim (oops! I mean, to the other hypothetical company!)? [/QUOTE] Just as a folllow-up to this point, because I happened to read [firejoemorgan.com](http://firejoemorgan.com) this morning: don’t you think Alex has to be getting sick of reading crap like [this](http://www.nypost.com/seven/09202007/sports/yankees/a_rods_clutch_showing_wear.htm) in the local papers? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-terry-francona-braindead-douchebag-of-the-year/419710/55 "2007-09-21T14:34:45Z")
[QUOTE=D\_Odds] Ain’t that the truth. That said, Phillips bat isn’t first baseman quality, but neither is Mientkiewicz this year. Both can play the position. Jeter has been lucky to stay injury-free thus far. If the luck holds, he’ll still be there in 4, but probably not 6. Same with A-Rod (for whichever team he is with). He’s a year younger, so he’s got 5 years or so as a force in the field, and hopefully 8-9 at the plate. [/QUOTE] Jeter will probably transition to LF or 1B in 4 years. A-Rod might be able to stay at 3rd into his early 40s. It would not surprise me. The Yanks can make do with a large variety of choices next year at first. Doug M. could be brought back cheap, Phillips fields well and is not a rally killer, though far below what you hope to get as first base production. Shelley Duncan and Johnny Damon may well be in the mix. My only fear is Jason G with a glove on more than once a week. If we retain A-Rod, we can well live with Doug M or Phillips bat at first. If we lose A-Rod, the Yanks will probably go after a productive first baseman and either overpay for him or give up too much talent. One more reason to retain A-Rod. I nearly forgot, Erubiel Durazo is on the AAA Scranton Yankees this year. One more for the mix. Next year is not a good year for 1b free agents, so I think the Yanks will go with someone or some combination they already have. [Here is a good list of Free Agents coming up this year.](http://www.mlb4u.com/freeagency.php?field=position) Jim ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-terry-francona-braindead-douchebag-of-the-year/419710/56 "2007-09-21T14:37:12Z")
[QUOTE=storyteller0910] Just as a folllow-up to this point, because I happened to read [firejoemorgan.com](http://firejoemorgan.com) this morning: don’t you think Alex has to be getting sick of reading crap like [this](http://www.nypost.com/seven/09202007/sports/yankees/a_rods_clutch_showing_wear.htm) in the local papers? [/QUOTE] If he leaves the Yanks because of the papers and fans, that will probably narrow his choices down to the Cubs, Angels and Dodgers. Boston papers are worse than even NY as are the fans usually. Ask Boggs, Vaughn, Clemens or several others about that. 😉 Jim ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-terry-francona-braindead-douchebag-of-the-year/419710/57 "2007-09-21T14:53:55Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] Jeter will probably transition to LF or 1B in 4 years. [/QUOTE] Jeter is very proud, and I’m not sure I can imagine him doing that. I think he plays shortstop until the wheels come off, which probably won’t be in four years. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-terry-francona-braindead-douchebag-of-the-year/419710/58 "2007-09-21T15:04:04Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] Jeter is very proud, and I’m not sure I can imagine him doing that. I think he plays shortstop until the wheels come off, which probably won’t be in four years. [/QUOTE] That will be an interesting question when his defense slips too much. He is not Omar Vizquel\* as it is, I cannot see him playing SS well at age 38, I hope I am wrong. Jim - Who is amazingly still playing SS at age 40 for the Giants. However, he was a human vacuum in his prime with Seattle and Cleveland. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-terry-francona-braindead-douchebag-of-the-year/419710/59 "2007-09-21T15:44:41Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] That will be an interesting question when his defense slips too much. He is not Omar Vizquel\* as it is, I cannot see him playing SS well at age 38, I hope I am wrong. [/QUOTE] At age 38? Hell, if you define “playing shortstop well” as playing shortstop better than the average Major Leaguer, then Jeter has only played shortstop well for 2 out of his 11 full seasons in the major leagues. In a four-year period from 2000 through 2003, his Fielding Runs Above Average score was -20, -21, -20, and -21. His career FRAA is -118. Things have looked up a bit in the past few years, with FRAA numbers of +11 in 2005 and +7 in 2006. This year he’s at +1, making him almost exactly average. Jeter’s a very good player, but i just don’t get the constant stream of superlatives about his fielding. Sure, once every three or four weeks he’ll go deep in the hole and make a leaping, spinning throw to first, but his range is awful. As the guys from Baseball Prospectus suggested in their book, if you moved to New York from another planet and listened to broadcasts of Yankees games, you’d think Jeter’s first name was “Pastadiving.” Before A-Rod’s move to New York, his career FRAA at shortstop was +58; Jeter’s in the same period was -132. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-terry-francona-braindead-douchebag-of-the-year/419710/60 "2007-09-21T15:59:16Z")
[QUOTE=mhendo] At age 38? Hell, if you define “playing shortstop well” as playing shortstop better than the average Major Leaguer, then Jeter has only played shortstop well for 2 out of his 11 full seasons in the major leagues. In a four-year period from 2000 through 2003, his Fielding Runs Above Average score was -20, -21, -20, and -21. His career FRAA is -118. Things have looked up a bit in the past few years, with FRAA numbers of +11 in 2005 and +7 in 2006. This year he’s at +1, making him almost exactly average. Jeter’s a very good player, but i just don’t get the constant stream of superlatives about his fielding. Sure, once every three or four weeks he’ll go deep in the hole and make a leaping, spinning throw to first, but his range is awful. As the guys from Baseball Prospectus suggested in their book, if you moved to New York from another planet and listened to broadcasts of Yankees games, you’d think Jeter’s first name was “Pastadiving.” Before A-Rod’s move to New York, his career FRAA at shortstop was +58; Jeter’s in the same period was -132. [/QUOTE] \*[heavy sarcasm intended] \* Thank you for that unsolicited and oft repeated statistical explosion proving beyond any doubt that Jeter is not a good shortstop. The Yankees, Yankee Fans and even the local papers have been well satisfied with the play of our sub par shortstop. This will not always remain true. At some point, he will slip below his current sub par level to somewhere that is unacceptable to the fans, team, paper or hopefully him. In the meantime, we will continue to suffer with his defense. \*[/hsi] \* Those who have watched him day in and day out know that beyond the statistics he has this silly knack to make the plays that need to be made and the ones that are impossible or at least highly improbable. He plays with all his heart and he plays every game the right way. He always tries his hardest. You are not the first by a long shot to point out how he is statistically inferior to the average Short Stop in fielding. You poll Yankee fans on who we would trade him for and overwhelmingly you will hear no one. You ask his teammates past and present about whom they would prefer at shortstop and most will say Jeter. Jim [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-terry-francona-braindead-douchebag-of-the-year/419710.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-terry-francona-braindead-douchebag-of-the-year/419710.md?page=4)