# I hereby pit the gang of hypocritical deniers "debating" GIGObuster **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 5, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-the-gang-of-hypocritical-deniers-debating-gigobuster/595281 "2011-09-05T16:32:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-the-gang-of-hypocritical-deniers-debating-gigobuster/595281/401 "2011-09-15T17:19:01Z")
No matter, I found one. Not one about climategate yet, but there has to be a discussion hidden somewhere here. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-the-gang-of-hypocritical-deniers-debating-gigobuster/595281/402 "2011-09-15T17:21:09Z")
The Chinese are working on Thorium reactors, which actually are safe. Not cheaper, but safer. Also there is a shit ton of thorium everywhere. If the fuckholes who built all the uranium reactors hadn’t been wanting Plutonium for bombs, the world might actually already have safe clean thorium reactors everywhere. Instead we got a fuck load of problems associated with reactors. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-the-gang-of-hypocritical-deniers-debating-gigobuster/595281/403 "2011-09-15T17:21:42Z")
_sigh_ Maybe it’s because you aren’t a member. Ok, here are the first 5 results: [Marcel Leroux: Global Warming Denier](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=596351&highlight=global+warming) [So who can answer Jerry Pournelle’s questions about Global Warming?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=581560&highlight=global+warming) [Thousands of Scientists are Skeptical of Global Warming](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=556528&highlight=global+warming) [Is Anthropogenic Global Warming Falsifiable?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=521245&highlight=global+warming) [Global Warming Redux: Have they lost their credibility?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=552280&highlight=global+warming) And that’s just the first 5 on the page. There are tons more threads on this topic in GD alone. Expand to GQ and you’ll get even more. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-the-gang-of-hypocritical-deniers-debating-gigobuster/595281/404 "2011-09-15T17:22:26Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Are you still willing to claim that I did not quote the science article that shows how misleading your CO2 “science” cite was? > > Now you are even denying posts, well, if you insist on looking like an idiot I do not mind. > Meh, more whining, I’m beginning to conclude you did not even check yet the last cites of the last article from the CO2 astroturf cite you made. Once one sees that scientific article does not match what the CO2 “science” site said, one has to then follow who is behind that front, and that is what you are also denying. > > [Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change - SourceWatch](http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Center_for_the_Study_of_Carbon_Dioxide_and_Global_Change) ## You must be an amazing Running Back with all that dodging, man. Let’s go to straight-up questions. What is in your opinion the total climate sensitivity to a doubling of CO2 concentration from pre-industrial-age levels? Don’t give me your cites, I want to know the number you personally accept. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-the-gang-of-hypocritical-deniers-debating-gigobuster/595281/405 "2011-09-15T17:22:52Z")
Thanks. I did mention I thought the search was munged. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-the-gang-of-hypocritical-deniers-debating-gigobuster/595281/406 "2011-09-15T17:30:13Z")
FXM doesn’t seem like the idiot you all are painting him out to be. I don’t think he’s really saying that AGW is a myth overall, just that the proper response isn’t to immediately stop buring fossile fuels and revert to subsistence farming. Correct me if I’m wrong FXM, but I believe you are really just saying that AGW may or may not be a matter of fact, but the response people are arguing for is irresponsible and irrational, and it hurts progress towards a more balanced, scientific approach. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-the-gang-of-hypocritical-deniers-debating-gigobuster/595281/407 "2011-09-15T17:39:56Z")
You are very close actually. I’m actually quite concerned over humanities pollution of our world, as well as many other wide spread practices which are causing possibly serious fucking harm for future generations. The soot problem is probably responsible for at least half of the current warming in the arctic. Stratosphere pollution from aircraft over the poles is another serious fucking issue. The water vapor, nitrates and CO2 injected into the cold dry air there is possibly causing a lot of warming, as well as ozone destruction. It’s problematic because the stratosphere is much lower over the poles, yet aircraft still fly at the same altitude, this is putting a lot of moisture into the upper atmosphere, which is really really unnatural. There are good experiments showing aircraft are responsible for a host of fucking problems, from temperatures to precipitation to cancer rates. The focus on just CO2 is madness, as it is the most benign and easy to solve problem, should it become a threat to mankind. Many other issues are much more pressing, and easier to change. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-the-gang-of-hypocritical-deniers-debating-gigobuster/595281/408 "2011-09-15T17:42:20Z")
Well, easier from a technological standpoint. Like the Asian brown cloud. This is linked to some serious glacier melting problems, as well as changes in precipitation. What’s surprising is the recent findings that warming oceans may be causing more snow to fall, which is causing some glaciers to grow. High glaciers of course. The Greenland Law dome is certainly not showing any signs of shrinking. If anything, there is a shit ton of more snow recently. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-the-gang-of-hypocritical-deniers-debating-gigobuster/595281/409 "2011-09-15T17:46:46Z")
You want to start this one up again? [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=552280&highlight=global+warming&page=5](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=552280&highlight=global+warming&page=5) ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-the-gang-of-hypocritical-deniers-debating-gigobuster/595281/410 "2011-09-15T18:43:27Z")
No, no, you’re doing it wrong. Do more like before! You know, “shit happens when you party naked.” That kind of thing! ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-the-gang-of-hypocritical-deniers-debating-gigobuster/595281/411 "2011-09-15T19:06:23Z")
What? You been talking to my girlfriend or something? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-the-gang-of-hypocritical-deniers-debating-gigobuster/595281/412 "2011-09-15T19:21:12Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Well, that’s settled it. FXMastermind confidently asserts that AGW is a myth. I usually ignore idiots, there is no percentage in arguing with them. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-the-gang-of-hypocritical-deniers-debating-gigobuster/595281/413 "2011-09-15T19:45:44Z")
If you are asking me I’d say the same thing I told you in your nuclear power pit thread…if you REALLY want to discuss the subject start a new thread in GD (not in the Pit). Lay out your arguments, whatever they are, and be prepared to defend your position. Restarting an old thread is rarely going to do much to further a specific debate. Starting a thread in the Pit isn’t going to get you a debate, it’s going to earn you derision. -XT ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-the-gang-of-hypocritical-deniers-debating-gigobuster/595281/414 "2011-09-15T19:52:28Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > What is in your opinion the total climate sensitivity to a doubling of CO2 concentration from pre-industrial-age levels? > **Don’t give me your cites** , I want to know the number you personally accept. (bolding added) So **GIGObuster** must _personally_ run a model rather than relying on those from climate scientists? :dubious: **Ají de Gallina** , don’t give me your cites, but what is your personal number for the drag coefficient of a 737 at cruising speed and altitude? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-the-gang-of-hypocritical-deniers-debating-gigobuster/595281/415 "2011-09-15T20:12:46Z")
Yep. like \*\*wevets \*\*said, what Aji is doing is running away from science, it seems that the Aji does think that it is always better to deal with an anonymous guy on the web to deal with the “secrets” of the universe. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-the-gang-of-hypocritical-deniers-debating-gigobuster/595281/416 "2011-09-15T20:41:11Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > I looked long and hard for a Great Debate thread about AGW, Climate Change, whatever you label the great belief that “man is causing global warming by using fossil fuels and it is going to be really bad and everybody has to stop using fossil fuels and it might already be too late > and you are a bad person for destroying the world”. The only bad he was referring to was the denialists efforts that are funded by oil producers, it is a wonder how you got all that from his post. Sure, I would not put it how he said it, but it is clear that you are making just a caricature of what he was referring to, in essence you just turned him into a boy who cried wolf, but the point of the tale is missed when one ignores that there was a wolf in the end. Point being that nowhere on your tirade there was any resemblance of evidence that discredited the paleoclimate work of Mann (the so called hockey stick) The wolf remains, regardless of the attempt o making all the ones on your OP as the ones who cried wolf, in reality they just misunderstood what the Hockey Stick was all about, it is just one line of evidence that supports AGW. > [@FXMastermind](#): > > People use fuel. This causes the world to warm. This is bad. People should stop using fuel. It’s all about money and profit. > > How fucking nice it must be to live in an idiot world where everything is explained so easily and you are 100% right, and your enemy is 100% wrong. > > Of course if you really believed that you would turn off your power, stop using fuel, and shut the fuck up about it, because every time you log in you are killing the planet. And no one that is proposing solutions has said that, finding a doper that is confused about an item but not the overall picture will not do, do you have a cite? > [@FXMastermind](#): > > Nobody can actually be that stupid. So says the expert of strawmans, while I can not answer for **Ogre** , it is clear that many others in the thread did not follow those extremes, besides the subject was the vindication of Mann… Once again. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-the-gang-of-hypocritical-deniers-debating-gigobuster/595281/417 "2011-09-15T20:41:17Z")
For the record, I’d be happy to hear your falsification criterion _ **regardless** _ of whether you include a cite. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-the-gang-of-hypocritical-deniers-debating-gigobuster/595281/418 "2011-09-15T20:52:06Z")
> [@](#): > > I pit the idiots who just don’t get it After 12 years, I’ve finally been pitted! _Yessss!_ ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-the-gang-of-hypocritical-deniers-debating-gigobuster/595281/419 "2011-09-15T21:07:06Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Of course if you really believed that you would turn off your power, stop using fuel, and shut the fuck up about it, because every time you log in you are killing the planet. > > Of course the idiot who bemoans the death of all that is good won’t do that. In fact, if you take the carbon emitted by dickbags preaching “fossil fuels are warming the planet” you would have a percentage of the greenhouse gasses just from such activity. So only you will continue spewing nonsense? That would be.. very convenient.. Not. The reality is that the internet is part of the problem, but it is also a big part of the solution: > **[Has the time come for digital mail delivery?](https://www.zdnet.com/article/has-the-time-come-for-digital-mail-delivery/)** > > The good news is that the USPS managed to cut its greenhouse gas emissions 8 percent last year; the bad news is that agency is still expected to reach its borrowing limit this year. > [@](#): > > Even though the United States Postal Service (USPS) can’t seem to shrink its financial losses, there is ONE thing that is has managed to reduce over the past 12 months — its carbon dioxide emissions footprint. > > The agency reported in the beginning of June (its first “official” report!) that it has managed to cut its greenhouse gas emissions by 8 percent since its fiscal year 2008 baseline measure. That’s approximately 1.1 million metric tons of carbon dioxide, and it is just shy of halfway toward its 20 percent reduction goal by the year 2020. > > One big factor has been a substantial cut in energy consumption at post offices (yes, there are many closing, so I am sure that it has some bearing) and mail processing centers. But it is also the less reliance on the traditional way of sending mail elsewhere that is driving that reduction. > [@](#): > > There are many things that the USPS has to fix, but one of its biggest challenges is cultural. That is, many businesses and individuals rely much less on sending first-class letters to get their message across. They’ve switched much of their correspondence to digital formats. Ironically, the sustainability measures of many companies — which are trying to cut massive paper waste — are absolutely one of the biggest factors hurting the USPS. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-the-gang-of-hypocritical-deniers-debating-gigobuster/595281/420 "2011-09-15T21:24:44Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > For the record, I’d be happy to hear your falsification criterion _ **regardless** _ of whether you include a cite. Already done, but you do not like the answer. It is very straightforward, falsify the 10 basic fingerprints and you are there, as even the basic ones were already mentioned, the exercise now goes to the researchers that \*\*do \*\*see those falsifications already and already did try to falsify those basic ones. Point being that wile you are continuing to huff and puff assuming that the falsifications are not there, skeptical researchers already know them, and do not care one bit about your nowhere man efforts. > **[Has the greenhouse effect been falsified?](https://skepticalscience.com/Has-the-greenhouse-effect-been-falsified.html)** > > Guest post by Chris Ho-Stuart Most participants in climate debates can agree that the atmosphere's capacity to interact with thermal radiation helps maintain the Earth's surface temperature at a livable level. The Earth's surface is... > [@](#): > > Many thanks to Chris Ho-Stuart for this guest post. Chris is co-author of the recently published paper Comment on “Falsification of the atmospheric CO2 Greenhouse Effects within the frame of physics” (Halpern et al 2010). which is a peer-reviewed response to the paper by Gerlich and Tscheuschner which claims to falsify the greenhouse effect. Chris also runs Climate Physics Forums which is a very high quality forum featuring substantive and courteous discussions of climate science. There is also a discussion thread on the Halpern et al paper. They failed so far, and that was one of the items where I base the further point of how unlikely you will get your efforts to amount to even a hill of beans. Of course you would had noticed that bit already if you had read the cite as I linked to that before. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-the-gang-of-hypocritical-deniers-debating-gigobuster/595281.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hereby-pit-the-gang-of-hypocritical-deniers-debating-gigobuster/595281.md?page=22)