# I hesitate to call this grafitti **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 28, 2021, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hesitate-to-call-this-grafitti/947555 "2021-07-28T21:30:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hesitate-to-call-this-grafitti/947555/21 "2021-07-29T03:11:14Z")
Since you apparently consider yourself a cognoscenti of wall art, care to defend the artistic merit of these amazing efforts? [https://www.instagram.com/yourbadgraffiti/?hl=en](https://www.instagram.com/yourbadgraffiti/?hl=en) [![](https://i.redd.it/h0n34nb81uly.png) ](https://i.redd.it/h0n34nb81uly.png) [![Imgur](https://live.staticflickr.com/202/493690124_13e1f94da7_z.jpg "Lamest Graffiti EVER") ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/simmermon/493690124/) [![](https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/1D1E/production/_84445470_img_0237.jpg) ](https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/1D1E/production/_84445470_img_0237.jpg) [![](https://popupology.weebly.com/uploads/4/0/1/7/40174021/4752014_orig.jpeg) ](https://popupology.weebly.com/uploads/4/0/1/7/40174021/4752014_orig.jpeg) [![](https://cooltourspain.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/tag-graffiti-artist.jpg) ](https://cooltourspain.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/tag-graffiti-artist.jpg) So art! Any Lascaux artist can blow these weenies away even if they have been dead for thousands of years. AND they knew how to mix their own paints. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hesitate-to-call-this-grafitti/947555/22 "2021-07-29T03:22:12Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > If it isn’t the graffitier’s property, it is. I don’t agree. Vandalism is deliberate destruction or damage to a piece of property. Some graffiti can be damaging, sure. But some can be artistic, with no intent to cause damage. I actually wonder: one way that even artistic graffiti might cause damage is in its removal. Is there any movement to make it easy to remove? I don’t really hear people talk about, say, chalk art as being “vandalism.” ---
**Author:** ![JaneDoe42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janedoe42/32/14104_2.png) [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hesitate-to-call-this-grafitti/947555/23 "2021-07-29T03:39:29Z")
That’s because the above linked video discussed an artist who cared about using other people’s property as their canvas. Most taggers don’t care about others but their homey’s. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hesitate-to-call-this-grafitti/947555/24 "2021-07-29T03:57:01Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > care to defend the artistic merit of these amazing efforts? I didn’t call it art. You said it was meaningless. I disagreed. **Just\_Asking\_Questions** said it was vandalism if it wasn’t on the artists’ property. I gave examples of things considered art that were done as graffiti. But as long as you’ve asked about artistic merit: Who am I to judge what is good and what is not. Does me liking it make it art? I don’t like the music of Blake Shelton (or really anything about his public persona) does that make it not have artistic merit? Or to **Princhester** ’s point; does intention matter? Does intended audience size? If I make a piece of art that is only intended to mean something to me does that make it not art? Why is Banksy considered an artist? Is it because they makes thought provoking pictures? Then why is Syko also considered an artist? They only tag. Just because something seems bad or ugly to you doesn’t mean it seems the same to everyone. > [@JaneDoe42](#): > > Graffiti on many walls are considered to be vandalism Many things used to be considered antisocial, immoral, and/or illegal that are not considered so any more. Miscegenation Jazz Sodomy Marijuana I don’t consider graffiti to be vandalism. ---
**Author:** ![JaneDoe42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janedoe42/32/14104_2.png) [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hesitate-to-call-this-grafitti/947555/25 "2021-07-29T04:01:36Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > I don’t consider graffiti to be vandalism. Please do not graffiti my fence. I would consider that to be vandalism. However, I would be willing to smoke some marijuana with you while discussing allowing you to paint your art on my fence. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hesitate-to-call-this-grafitti/947555/26 "2021-07-29T04:09:30Z")
> [@JaneDoe42](#): > > Please do not graffiti my fence. I would consider that to be vandalism. Fair enough. > [@JaneDoe42](#): > > However, I would be willing to smoke some marijuana with you while discussing allowing you to paint your art on my fence. As long as we can listen to some jazz while we talk. We’ll leave the sodomy for a future encounter! ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hesitate-to-call-this-grafitti/947555/27 "2021-07-29T04:10:52Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > Or to **Princhester** ’s point; does intention matter? Does intended audience size? If I make a piece of art that is only intended to mean something to me does that make it not art? > Why is Banksy considered an artist? Is it because he makes thought provoking pictures? Then why is Syko also considered an artist? They only tag. You are trying to strawman this into an argument about whether or not something is art. Debating whether or not something is art is vacuous sophistry and nothing to do with my point. My point is simply that certain things are appreciated by the public (or a significant part thereof) and certain things are not. Some jerk scrawling his initials on a public surface is appreciated by pretty much no one except that jerk and maybe his mother (although even that is doubtful). Your final argument is silly. If it were a valid argument, it would be a valid argument for being in favour of _everything_ on the basis that it might be considered OK later. Further, all the examples you give are of behaviours that society saw fit to penalise, even though they only affected the consenting adults involved. That is not the case with graffiti. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hesitate-to-call-this-grafitti/947555/28 "2021-07-29T04:40:28Z")
The op inferred that there was a difference between art and graffiti. There is not. Graffiti is always art. It’s not always good art or even widely appreciated art. It is oftentimes illegal art. It can be beautiful and show alot of skill. It can bring joy to a community. It can also be ugly and hateful, and bring sorrow to a community. It can do so many things because that’s what all art does. It provokes feelings in the viewer. Something being illegal does not automatically mean it has no value. Sometimes things should never have been illegal in the first place. Sometimes things should no longer be illegal because the mores of the community have changed. Sometimes things remain illegal because the mores of only some of the community have changed. Is graffiti art? Yes! Is graffiti vandalism? That’s in the eye of the beholder. Should graffiti be illegal? That’s up to the people. I would say no. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hesitate-to-call-this-grafitti/947555/29 "2021-07-29T05:26:07Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > Should graffiti be illegal? That’s up to the people. I would say no. Do you own any form of property? Would you be OK if I scrawl something on it you don’t find pleasing to your eye, indelibly? Thought so. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hesitate-to-call-this-grafitti/947555/30 "2021-07-29T05:55:14Z")
do you think everything you find displeasing should be illegal? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hesitate-to-call-this-grafitti/947555/31 "2021-07-29T06:07:09Z")
No. But as a millisecond’s thought would tell you, that is pretty much irrelevant to the point I just made. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hesitate-to-call-this-grafitti/947555/32 "2021-07-29T06:25:30Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > maybe to you, but not to me. Let me put some “art” inside your house, on your car. My art uses “alternative materials” such as human feces in addition to paint. You should have no problem, right? ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hesitate-to-call-this-grafitti/947555/33 "2021-07-29T07:49:33Z")
Boring…been done > **[Pablo Picasso Painted With His Daughter's Excrement | artnet News](https://news.artnet.com/art-world/pablo-picasso-painted-with-poop-728735)** > > A new book, "100 Secrets of the Art World," reveals a shocking secret: Pablo Picasso used his daughter's poop as a pigment in his painting. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hesitate-to-call-this-grafitti/947555/34 "2021-07-29T08:43:03Z")
Lascaux-era grafitti is today’s art. Today’s grafitti will be art 5000 years from now. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hesitate-to-call-this-grafitti/947555/35 "2021-07-29T11:44:27Z")
Ducking a question? Yes that’s been done, often. Usually means someone is avoiding an issue. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hesitate-to-call-this-grafitti/947555/36 "2021-07-29T13:46:10Z")
Actually,I think he’s equating me with Picasso, and would welcome my installation art piece “mikecurtis’ hypocrisy” installed in his house. Should increase its value by at least $100K, I should think. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hesitate-to-call-this-grafitti/947555/37 "2021-07-29T13:54:03Z")
Thanks for sharing this fabulous video! ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hesitate-to-call-this-grafitti/947555/38 "2021-07-29T14:28:06Z")
There’s a ridiculous amount of street art in my area. [This guy](https://www.google.com/search?q=mr+cenz+art&rlz=1C1GCEA_enGB960GB960&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiyoNmCvojyAhXMQEEAHXiACVoQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1920&bih=969), for example, has several works on the sides of local buildings. One example: [![](https://streetartnews.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/119231128_3173551079424309_526460141505195820_o.jpg) ](https://streetartnews.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/119231128_3173551079424309_526460141505195820_o.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hesitate-to-call-this-grafitti/947555/39 "2021-07-29T17:51:56Z")
> [@JaneDoe42](#): > > On a dark desert highway… I have a feeling the ‘warm smell of colitas’ was involved 😄 I have a creepy graffiti story, though just words, not artwork. Many years ago-- I’m talking maybe 30 years ago, when I was young and still single, I went camping up north a lot (up north being Michigan’s U.P. or the upper part of the L.P.). One summer (it might have even been over a couple summers) when I’d be driving up I-75 there was a section for several miles around mid-L.P. area where every concrete buttress for the overpasses had this message: “THE MORE YOU LOVE DEMONS THE MORE THEY TORTURE YOU-- HORRIBLE PAIN”. This persisted through the summer(s?), getting repainted after being removed, and like I said, appearing on several overpasses for a stretch of miles. I wondered what type of person would do that – was it a mentally ill person, or just a bored teenager (or group of bored teenagers)? Or…DUN DUN DUN…an _ **actual demon worshipper** _…? 😱 ---
**Author:** ![Ranch\_Dip](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranch_dip/32/5238_2.png) [@Ranch\_Dip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranch_Dip)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hesitate-to-call-this-grafitti/947555/40 "2021-07-29T19:59:26Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > I detest stupid random tags that mean nothing, I tend to agree, but the other day as I was looking at some graffiti out in the wild, is it really so different from cave art or indigenous art? And who decides? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hesitate-to-call-this-grafitti/947555.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hesitate-to-call-this-grafitti/947555.md?page=3)