# I hope I'm not the only one bothered by this **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 8, 2000, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hope-im-not-the-only-one-bothered-by-this/28606 "2000-08-08T19:43:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2000, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hope-im-not-the-only-one-bothered-by-this/28606/61 "2000-08-11T04:14:18Z")
> [@](#): > > So Jesus healing was wrong? Or he should heal, but no one else? Call me goofy, but wasn’t he, well . . . **God**??? ---
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2000, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hope-im-not-the-only-one-bothered-by-this/28606/62 "2000-08-11T04:43:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Medea’s Child \* > > Satan, the parents did do everything they could, this is the mindset > ) But I ask you to consider your ideas of neglect and abuse. These children are loved and cherished, not hated and ignored. There is a big difference. Even if their parents are mad as hatters and have the brains of a gerbil (felched or unfelched). > > \*\* But they did NOT do “everything they could”. And if those same “gerbil brained” parents, being "mad as hatters’, really, truly love their child, and think the only way to “save” her is to cut out her heart and offer is up to “the smoking mirror”?. But they really believe that is the right thing for her, as she will go straight to their heaven and become their gods concubine. And they really believe this, and do it out of love, “it is an honor to be the concubine of a god!” NO!!! It is still abuse, it is still murder, it is still wrong. No matter what your faith: “crimes agiast humanity” are wrong- and killing a small child is a crime against humanity. ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2000, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hope-im-not-the-only-one-bothered-by-this/28606/63 "2000-08-11T04:51:05Z")
Medea’s Child - I was raised Mormon. That religion is one of the largest believers in the healing powers of God. However, they don’t shun science because science is proven! However, I have found religion to do nothing for me. I have found no comfort, no ‘healing powers’ in the love of a fictitious God. I do not believe in God, because everything that was spouted to me about religion did nothing for me. Good vaccines work. It’s fact. It’s been proven through billions of dollars of research and thouasands of tests. Scientists are currently studying more vaccines, and refining others. > [@](#): > > \*\*Monster, > The idea is not to help the religion, its to help the child. My religion believes that such help comes from God. I don’t pray because it will up some goal board for my religion, I pray because it puts me in line with God. God created me to be perfect, and has no problem maintaining me in perfection. \*\* When someone lets their child die for their religion, that is helping the religion of the parents. In no way does letting the child die help it. Letting a child die does not put you in touch with God. > [@](#): > > **Are you Christian, Monster? Can you honestly say that you know that God could do nothing to heal your bleeding head?** I answered the first part already. The second part, yes, I honestly know that God could do nothing. When someone is pouring blood out of a wound 3-4 inches long, a quarter inch wide, and all the way to the skull…there is no way to let that just heal. Science isn’t just made up. It’s been proven over thousands of years and countless deaths that people bleed to death. Why does this happen? Because they had a wound that either cannot be helped or wasn’t helped in time. Yes, the body does have healing capabilities. You’re lucky you either have a strong immune system, or that you just haven’t been exposed to many diseases, otherwise you wouldn’t be here. The body is biologically designed to be able to recurperate from minor ailments. A nail through the foot might not seem minor, but it is. Unless you hit a major artery or vein, you won’t be in serious trouble, just a lot of pain. However, I think you’re mistaking the body’s natural ability to heal as the divine intervention of God to keep you ‘perfect’. When you completely understand how the human body works to every exact detail, then I will listen to you that maybe God does help in some way with mysterious healings that cannot be explained. Until then, I will continue hoping that you do not get any serious injuries or illnesses that you will refuse to seek treatment for. I would rather not see you hurt or crippled or even dead. I hope you know that there are hundreds of diseases that can kill you if you get them. I also hope when you have children that you will take care of them with proven science until they are old enough to make their own choice. To do otherwise would be neglect, exactly what these other parents are guilty of. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2000, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hope-im-not-the-only-one-bothered-by-this/28606/64 "2000-08-11T16:43:51Z")
> [@](#): > > My religion doesn’t accept the reality of sin, disease, or death. Um…if you don’t believe in disease, why do you have to pray when people get sick? If you don’t accept the reality of death, where is your great great great grandmother right now? If you don’t believe in sin, are you a Christian? The entire premise of Christianity is that we were born with original sin, and only through Jesus can we be saved. If you don’t believe in sin, how can you allow Jesus to save you? I am very confused now. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2000, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hope-im-not-the-only-one-bothered-by-this/28606/65 "2000-08-12T00:57:35Z")
My belief has always been that God does heal us…through the doctors and the people helping us. Think about it: if GOD wants someone to die, do you really think a DOCTOR can stop it? So I think that it is God healing us, but through the actions of others? After all, doesn’t it say in the Bible-whatsoever you do to the least of my people, that you do unto me? ---
**Author:** ![Holly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/48db29/32.png) [@Holly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Holly)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2000, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hope-im-not-the-only-one-bothered-by-this/28606/66 "2000-08-13T08:03:37Z")
Medea’sChild: > [@](#): > > Personally, I consider surgery as a violent invasion of the body. Say you have a malignant tumor that will spread through your body and eat you from the inside out if it’s not removed. Is that not a violent invasion of the body? Or, say you have a raging case of appendicitis. You can have a simple operation to remove the offending part, or let your appendix explode, spewing toxic doses of infection all through your belly until you die in throes of agony. Which is more violent? > [@](#): > > I got to go through that earlier this year. (“You mean to tell me that cutting someone up is the ‘good’ method? Leave me to my quackery, please!”) Why in the world would you choose to have surgery, or take drugs, if it’s against your wishes? > [@](#): > > Any way I can gain more tolerance for religious freedom I will. Its not asking much, just that I be allowed to practise my beliefs. Even if I’m ten. I thoroughly believe that you should be allowed to practice your beliefs. I don’t believe a ten year old is sufficiently mature to make a life-or-death choice regarding healthcare vs religion. I certainly don’t believe the parents of a 10 month old who choose to forgo lifesaving medical care for him are protecting his religious freedom. Dead babies, as a rule, rarely get a chance to grow up and make their own choices. > [@](#): > > As for doctors, some people do need them, just as some poeple need pills, a crutch to lean on. The placebo effect is well known. Yes doctors do help, just like sugar pills, not addressing the actual problem but soothing the image, the symptoms. Are you saying that medical science offers nothing more than the placebo effect? If so, how do you reach this conclusion? ---
**Author:** ![Ptahlis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a8b319/32.png) [@Ptahlis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ptahlis)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2000, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hope-im-not-the-only-one-bothered-by-this/28606/67 "2000-08-14T13:15:39Z")
Well, back in the news this morning is yet another case. [http://www.denverpost.com/news/news0811c.htm](http://www.denverpost.com/news/news0811c.htm) In this case, a mother, a breach birth, and a two days dead baby still stuck in the birth canal. I could go into a more detailed summary, but really I am just too disgusted. ---
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2000, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hope-im-not-the-only-one-bothered-by-this/28606/68 "2000-08-14T15:16:07Z")
I guess they just didn’t pray hard enough… * * * Yer pal, Satan [sub]I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR: Four months, five days, 13 hours, 15 minutes and 58 seconds. 5102 cigarettes not smoked, saving $637.76. Life saved: 2 weeks, 3 days, 17 hours, 10 minutes.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2000, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hope-im-not-the-only-one-bothered-by-this/28606/69 "2000-08-14T18:55:57Z")
I don’t think I’m the only one creeped out by the fact that the mother spent three days with a dead baby in her birth canal. That’s just hideous. **Medea’s Child** , what’s your take on this? Was it a matter of not being in touch with God? ---
**Author:** ![evilbeth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/evilbeth/32/2268_2.png) [@evilbeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/evilbeth)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2000, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hope-im-not-the-only-one-bothered-by-this/28606/70 "2000-08-16T08:42:23Z")
You know, if we could just get all of those St. Judes kids and the ones at the Shiners’ hospitals to convert to Medea’s Child’s religion, they would all be healed! Now that I think about it, the real abusers are all those parents of these sick and injured kids who are knowingly refusing to let their kids convert to this miracle religion. I mean, just a quick little conversion and _presto!!!_–no more tumors, burn scars, blindness, deafness, etc! Of course, I’m out of a job because who the hell needs hospitals when formerly fatal wounds just heal right up in the amount of time it takes your brain to remember that your body is perfect and without scars or harm. While we’re at it, let’s have all the elderly people convert too. After all, we have discovered the secret to eternal life! We just won’t believe in death–that oughta do it! ---
**Author:** ![Skott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Skott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skott)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hope-im-not-the-only-one-bothered-by-this/28606/71 "2000-08-17T00:04:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Satan \* > \*\*I had a headache. I tool an Advil. It went away quicker than if I had not taken it. > > That drug fixed my problem.\*\* Apart from all the logical falicies (ad hominem attacks especially) in your rebutal to Medea’s Child, this point is incorrect. The drug did not fix the problem; it temporarily removed your perception of it. ---
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hope-im-not-the-only-one-bothered-by-this/28606/72 "2000-08-17T00:18:31Z")
Skott: First of all, please point out the ad hominem attacks, thanks. Secondly, regardless of whether it was the headache going away or my perception of it going away I DID NOT FEEL THE HEADACHE AND THE DRUG WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS! Which was the point, and you might have noticed this had you not been so obsessed with semantics. * * * Yer pal, Satan [sub]TIME ELAPSED SINCE I QUIT SMOKING: Four months, one week, 22 hours, 15 minutes and 19 seconds. 5197 cigarettes not smoked, saving $649.64. Life saved: 2 weeks, 4 days, 1 hour, 5 minutes.[/sub] **_"Satan is not an unattractive person."_-Drain Bead** [sub]Thanks for the ringing endorsement, honey!\*[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hope-im-not-the-only-one-bothered-by-this/28606/73 "2000-08-17T00:24:36Z")
I’ll make a bet with you “faith healers”. We will both (all 3?) be infected with the Bubonic plague. This is easily curable with common Tetracycline. If not cured by drugs, there is something like a 80% fatality rate. You may have all the prayer you want. I will have the drug, and despite my faith, no specail prayers. deal? There is one good thing about you guys “winning” this- you will get to see Jesus a lot sooner than i will. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hope-im-not-the-only-one-bothered-by-this/28606/74 "2000-08-17T00:34:12Z")
Couldn’t the drug itself be God’s way of healing? That’s my philosophy: God is healing us, but through people, through drugs. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that there are many, many, many natural cures found for many diseases in jungles, rain forests, etc… ---
**Author:** ![evilbeth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/evilbeth/32/2268_2.png) [@evilbeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/evilbeth)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hope-im-not-the-only-one-bothered-by-this/28606/75 "2000-08-17T07:26:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*Couldn’t the drug itself be God’s way of healing? > That’s my philosophy: God is healing us, but through people, through drugs. > I don’t think it’s a coincidence that there are many, many, many natural cures found for many diseases in jungles, rain forests, etc… \*\* So for all those pesky diseases that drugs have not been able to cure, has God just chosen for us not to find them yet or does he just not like people with those particular problems? ---
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hope-im-not-the-only-one-bothered-by-this/28606/76 "2000-08-17T12:49:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > > **Couldn’t the drug itself be God’s way of healing?** That seems like another way of saying what Drain Bead said earlier. If God gives us the brains to become doctors and develop medicines so we can help ourselves and our children, God _DID_ do it! Some people need to handle snakes, however… :rolleyes: * * * Yer pal, Satan [sub]TIME ELAPSED SINCE I QUIT SMOKING: Four months, one week, one day, 10 hours, 45 minutes and 25 seconds. 5217 cigarettes not smoked, saving $652.24. Life saved: 2 weeks, 4 days, 2 hours, 45 minutes.[/sub] **_"Satan is not an unattractive person."_-Drain Bead** [sub]Thanks for the ringing endorsement, honey!\*[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hope-im-not-the-only-one-bothered-by-this/28606/77 "2000-08-17T15:08:33Z")
The ones we haven’t found yet-well, that’s just it. WE haven’t found them yet. I don’t believe that God is keeping us from finding them deliberately. But I don’t know his plans. All I believe is that it is a crock to say medicine is unGodly. I mean, like I said, He’s GOD. If God chooses someone to die, they’re gonna die. (I’m not saying this as-I believe, so should you, but think about it: if he’s God, do you really think anyone can stop him?) I truly believe that GOD is working through other people: Whatsoever you do to the least of my people-that you do unto me. ---
**Author:** ![Skott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Skott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skott)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hope-im-not-the-only-one-bothered-by-this/28606/78 "2000-08-17T18:44:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Satan \* > **Skott: First of all, please point out the ad hominem attacks, thanks.** Okay… > [@](#): > > Then I suggest you not breed. and… > [@](#): > > Maybe because you’re wrong? Although, upon reflection, the later may be more of a “poisioning the well” type. 😉 > [@](#): > > Secondly, regardless of whether it was the headache going away or my perception of it going away I DID NOT FEEL THE HEADACHE AND THE DRUG WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS! Which was the point, and you might have noticed this had you not been so obsessed with semantics. Obsessive or not, you missed _my_ point: You’re example was invalid because it was not based in fact. The drug did not fix your problem. ---
**Author:** ![Skott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Skott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skott)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hope-im-not-the-only-one-bothered-by-this/28606/79 "2000-08-17T18:49:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Satan \* > **[Y]ou might have noticed this had you not been so obsessed with semantics.** Perhaps I am, in considering how relative the point is to the argument as a whole. It just bugged me and I felt the need to express my buggedment. My apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Badtz\_Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@Badtz\_Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badtz_Maru)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hope-im-not-the-only-one-bothered-by-this/28606/80 "2000-08-17T19:06:12Z")
I’m praying now that Medea’s Child catches some horrible disease. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hope-im-not-the-only-one-bothered-by-this/28606.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-hope-im-not-the-only-one-bothered-by-this/28606.md?page=5)