# I identify with Gimli. How about you? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 10, 2010, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256 "2010-09-10T02:22:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/41 "2010-09-10T22:09:38Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I don’t know why you’d hate to admit that. Boromir was a good man. He’s easier to empathize with than Aragorn, in fact. Partly because he failed, and partly because you know that he succumbed (briefly!) to the ring’s blandishments not because of a lust for power, but because of his compassion. He wasn’t lying when he said that he was afraid for Frodo and didn’t want to see him crushed by his quest. I agree with you on most points. But he also wanted to see Minas Tirith restored to glory, and saw the ring’s potential (deceitful potential) for that. He was also more than briefly tempted–often after Lothlórien Boromir seemed to be struggling with something in his mind, and rarely let Frodo out of his sight. Unless you suspect him of being a pervy hobbit-fancier, he was clearly tormented by the Ring. It’s as though he were doomed to succumb at some point. Briefly or not is of no consequence; he did succumb. Boromir is just very rarely mentioned by people as a noteworthy member of the Fellowship, because of his failings. Essentially, he was a loser; Faramir was a paragon, and Aragorn, but not Boromir. But, as you say, he was a good man, and he earned honor in his death. His humanity in a sense was therefore the most empathetic among those three, as you say. By the way, the characterization of Boromir in Jackson’s films I find to be spot-on (other than hair color). ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/42 "2010-09-10T22:19:03Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > [@Kyla](#): > > > > I think that’s Pippin. He hangs out with the Ents while Merry hangs out with the Gondor people. Or do I have that backwards? He’s pretty much who I identify with, too. Someone who has no freaking clue what they’re doing and needs to be carried around by walking trees. Yup, that would be me. > > Pippin goes to Minas Tirith, capital city of Gondor, and in payment of his weregild to Denethor becomes a member of the City Guard, though he is not truly expected to fight. He helps save Faramir and goes to the last battle at the Black Gate. > > Merrry stays in Rohan and becomes squire to Theoden. He’s more involved in teh Battle of Pelennor Fields than Pippin (he helps Eowyn slay the Nazgul), but like her and Faramir is too gravely wounded to go to the Black Gate. > > Merry’s the smart one. Wow, I fail at being a nerd. It hasn’t even been _that_ long since I last reread the books. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/43 "2010-09-10T22:22:52Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > > Pippin goes to Minas Tirith, capital city of Gondor, and in payment of his weregild to Denethor becomes a member of the City Guard, though he is not truly expected to fight. He helps save Faramir and goes to the last battle at the Black Gate. > > > > Merrry stays in Rohan and becomes squire to Theoden. He’s more involved in teh Battle of Pelennor Fields than Pippin (he helps Eowyn slay the Nazgul), but like her and Faramir is too gravely wounded to go to the Black Gate. > > > > Merry’s the smart one. > > Wow, I fail at being a nerd. It hasn’t even been _that_ long since I last reread the books. The usual threats for calling me a nerd. 🙂 ONly I’m busy right now, so I’m going to need you to beat yourself, okay? > [@Knorf](#): > > > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > > I don’t know why you’d hate to admit that. Boromir was a good man. He’s easier to empathize with than Aragorn, in fact. Partly because he failed, and partly because you know that he succumbed (briefly!) to the ring’s blandishments not because of a lust for power, but because of his compassion. He wasn’t lying when he said that he was afraid for Frodo and didn’t want to see him crushed by his quest. > > I agree with you on most points. But he also wanted to see Minas Tirith restored to glory, and saw the ring’s potential (deceitful potential) for that. He was also more than briefly tempted–often after Lothlórien Boromir seemed to be struggling with something in his mind, and rarely let Frodo out of his sight. Unless you suspect him of being a pervy hobbit-fancier, he was clearly tormented by the Ring. It’s as though he were doomed to succumb at some point. Briefly or not is of no consequence; he did succumb. I’m not saying that hope for restoring Gondor’s glory wasn’t part of it. I am asserting that that alone would not have overcome his honor. It was his genuine concern for Frodo & the other hobbits that gave the Ring an in. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/44 "2010-09-10T22:33:32Z")
Boromir makes total sense to me. All those wise Elvish types are saying “don’t use the ring! don’t use the ring!” But if you know your history, you’ll know that half the time Elves makes mistakes. Just because the person telling you something is an Elf doesn’t mean that person is right. If I had to be anyone, I would want to be Glorfindel, the Elf prince that even the Ringwraiths run away from in terror. Realistically, I would be Fatty Bolger. I would tell the Hobbits “my part is to put the bad guys off track. I’d love to go with you, but I only get two weeks paid vacation time each year and if I quit my job I’d have to find a new one when we get back, and that’s too much trouble. How are you going to pay for this trip anyway? Put it on a credit card? Have you seen the interest rates these days?” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/45 "2010-09-10T22:53:08Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > By the way, the characterization of Boromir in Jackson’s films I find to be spot-on (other than hair color). Boromir didn’t make any sense to me until I saw Jackson’s LotR. So not only would I say that Sean Bean’s depiction was spot on, it actually made me appreciate an aspect of the books that I’d originally overlooked. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/46 "2010-09-10T23:04:28Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > I don’t see myself as “heroic”, so it’s difficult to identify with anyone in LOTR. The closest I can see myself emulating is if I can go back to The Hobbit, and pick [Bard the Bowman](http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Bard_the_Bowman). > > He’s just a guy that did what needed to be done, selflessly, and knowing that doing it would probably cost him his life. He organized the Lakemen to fight the dragon and used every advantage he had to eventually win. When they defeated Smaug, he petitioned the Dwarves for assistance rebuilding Dale. After the Five Armies fight, he behaved honorably towards his people, serving as a loyal custodian of their share of the hoard, and contributing his own wealth to help rebuild his town. And you don’t see all that as heroic? I’m kind of a loner, and I like to walk, so I could see my self as one of the other Rangers. Roddy ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/47 "2010-09-10T23:46:24Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I’m not saying that hope for restoring Gondor’s glory wasn’t part of it. I am asserting that that alone would not have overcome his honor. It was his genuine concern for Frodo & the other hobbits that gave the Ring an in. I’m not sure this is supported by the text. Boromir spoke very passionately on at least two occasions on the possibility of using Sauron’s weapon against him. I’m not saying he didn’t have genuine concern for Frodo; I believe he did. He clearly had fondness for the hobbits. But I also believe it was a mask for his true ambition: to wield the Ring for Gondor’s honor. He grows most angry at Frodo at Cair Andros when Frodo implies that Men cannot be trusted. In fact, no one can. But Boromir believed in the strength of the descendants of Númenor, and was deluded into thinking that he (or someone, but I think he) would have the strength to master the Ring and not be mastered by it. He didn’t want Frodo to “lend him” the ring for Frodo’s benefit. He wanted it for Gondor (and himself.) Anyway, I still think he’s a very sympathetic and interesting character, and I agree with **The Hamster King**. Before Jackson’s movie, I had not really paid much attention to what was going on with Boromir. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/48 "2010-09-11T02:49:24Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > Boromir spoke very passionately on at least two occasions on the possibility of using Sauron’s weapon against him. Boromir: _“This is a gift!”_ Frodo (Jack Black): "_You’re God-damned right it’s a gift!"_ ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/49 "2010-09-11T02:57:33Z")
Well, given my username, you can probably guess… ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/50 "2010-09-11T03:03:52Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > … > > I agree with you on most points. But he also wanted to see Minas Tirith restored to glory, and saw the ring’s potential (deceitful potential) for that. He was also more than briefly tempted–often after Lothlórien Boromir seemed to be struggling with something in his mind, and rarely let Frodo out of his sight. Unless you suspect him of being a pervy hobbit-fancier … > > … Sam would kill him for that. Pippin’s my hobbit. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/51 "2010-09-11T06:37:44Z")
Hoom. Well, now, Treebeard drones on incomprehensibly at great length, spends most of his life doing a lot less than he could or ought, and hasn’t had sex since even he can’t remember when, but is kind to cute inoffensive strangers and brews some great drink every once in a while. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/52 "2010-09-11T16:13:43Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Hoom. Well, now, Treebeard drones on incomprehensibly at great length, spends most of his life doing a lot less than he could or ought, and hasn’t had sex since even he can’t remember when, but is kind to cute inoffensive strangers and brews some great drink every once in a while. Sounds like a Doper to me! ---
**Author:** ![congodwarf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@congodwarf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/congodwarf)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/53 "2010-09-11T17:14:29Z")
Pippin is my favorite character but I identify more with Merry. ---
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/54 "2010-09-11T17:58:00Z")
I identify with the Gimli Glider. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2010, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/55 "2010-09-12T04:38:29Z")
The Balrog. And I DO have wings, dammit! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2010, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/56 "2010-09-12T04:45:23Z")
> [@rowrrbazzle](#): > > The Balrog. > > And I DO have wings, dammit! > > 😛 Duly noted, and strongly agreed. But sorry, you can’t fly - they’re vestigial and ornamental. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/57 "2010-09-13T15:14:12Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Well, given my username, you can probably guess… Isildur? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/58 "2010-09-13T15:19:59Z")
I’ll just smooth over some hard feelings here by pointing out that Isildur wasn’t a Lord of the Rings character. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/59 "2010-09-13T15:26:38Z")
Ah but mentioned in the Appendix, though perhaps that doesn’t count. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/60 "2010-09-13T16:08:07Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > > [@rowrrbazzle](#): > > > > The Balrog. > > > > And I DO have wings, dammit! > > > > 😛 > > Duly noted, and strongly agreed. But sorry, you can’t fly - they’re vestigial and ornamental. You know, I started going through this whole mental explanation of how they’re probably for sexual display, like birds or antelopes or some such, before realizing that: a) Middle-earth was Created, and thus has no evolution b) Balrogs are physical manifestations of fire Maiar, and could have assumed any damned characteristics they wanted, and sex wasn’t what they were thinking about (if in fact sex even existed for them - it had to for some of the Maiar given that Melian married Thingol and a number of the Valar were married). :smack: Clearly I watch too many natural history shows on television. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256.md?page=4)