# I identify with Gimli. How about you? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 10, 2010, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256 "2010-09-10T02:22:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/81 "2010-09-14T00:33:22Z")
Y’know, I think that might be the most apt characterization of the two of them I’ve heard. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/82 "2010-09-14T11:32:19Z")
It does kinda boil them down to their essence, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/83 "2010-09-14T15:32:44Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > I identify with the Gondorian loremaster who natters on to Aragorn about asëa aranion being the name for kingsfoil, or athelas, in the Noble Tongue (Quenya). Wait…are you saying you’re not actually him? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/84 "2010-09-14T15:34:11Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > > [@Surly\_Chick](#): > > > > Eowyn, no doubt. She doesn’t want to be pigeon-holed into tradional women’s roles and can kick ass. > > My daughter called her “The Horsey Princess” to contrast her with “The Kissy Princess”. This does not take into the account that Eowyn is a lot better looking. Arwen wins out only in … Well, there must be something. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/85 "2010-09-14T15:55:43Z")
Arwen is almost three thousand years old, and is tied with Galadriel as being considered the most beautiful woman in Middle-earth. She’s split her entire life between two of the most powerful beings in Middle-earth, Elrond and Galadriel. I think she probably has an interesting story or two. And being the spitting image of Luthien come again, she probably could sing pretty well. Eowyn was brave, but she was primarily a fame-seeker until after the Houses of Healing. She was motivated by a desire for renown, understandable given her culture, but maybe a tad tacky by ours. Arwen had a much stronger sense of her own worth, and didn’t feel the need to go out with a sword to prove how valuable she was. Eowyn was all emo and essentially suicidal; she rode to what she assumed (and rather hoped) would be her death, with a little hope that maybe she’d get some glory on the way. Apparently slaying a Nazgul is cathartic, because I’ve never been able to account for Eowyn’s sudden change of heart the moment a decent guy came on to her. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/86 "2010-09-14T15:58:09Z")
Chicks dig new clothes. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/87 "2010-09-14T16:15:58Z")
> [@Oy](#): > > Arwen is almost three thousand years old, and is tied with Galadriel as being considered the most beautiful woman in Middle-earth. She’s split her entire life between two of the most powerful beings in Middle-earth, Elrond and Galadriel. I think she probably has an interesting story or two. And being the spitting image of Luthien come again, she probably could sing pretty well. Your mileage may vary, I suppose. Anyway I was going by the movie version, as it is an even day and thus I am free to acknowledge that Peter Jackson exists. > [@](#): > > Eowyn was brave, but she was primarily a fame-seeker until after the Houses of Healing. She was motivated by a desire for renown, understandable given her culture, but maybe a tad tacky by ours. Arwen had a much stronger sense of her own worth, and didn’t feel the need to go out with a sword to prove how valuable she was. Eowyn was all emo and essentially suicidal; she rode to what she assumed (and rather hoped) would be her death, with a little hope that maybe she’d get some glory on the way. :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: I am agog at the baseless slander in the above. You, madam, are no gentleman. > [@](#): > > Apparently slaying a Nazgul is cathartic, because I’ve never been able to account for Eowyn’s sudden change of heart the moment a decent guy came on to her. Everybody knows that was because Faramir let her be the man in every way. I would describe the wedding gift they received from Gimli to assist in this but I am afraid that Curtis Lemay or one of our other underagers might wander in. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/88 "2010-09-14T16:28:24Z")
**Curtis Lemay** is a teenager? That explains a lot. **Skald** , she says herself that she wants renown and glory, and let’s face it: that culture is very much oriented to glory in death (The fact that it brings tears to my eyes when Theoden gets all Death and Glory doesn’t change the fact that basically he’s talking like a suicide bomber when you think about it from a contemporary viewpoint). She also is repeatedly described (as Dernhelm/Eowyn) as one who does not look to survive. When she is revived in the Houses of Healing, she asks “Why did you bring me back” or something of that sort. Look, you know I love the Rohirrim. But I love them because they make a wonderful culture _in a story_. The fact is, I wouldn’t really want to be around any of them in real life. The Vikings were people who would kill you for inadvertently insulting their beard. The records actually reflect that it was not unusual for them to kill each other off for what we would consider trivial reasons. They make great stories, but they would have been really awful to live with. An “honor”-driven culture is not what it’s cracked up to be. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/89 "2010-09-14T16:41:50Z")
She was motivated (in part) by glory, but she was _not_ motivated by fame. They’re not the same thing. It’s possible to die gloriously in a noble last stand that nobody living will ever even hear of. And she wasn’t entirely motivated by glory, either. It seems to me that that takes second place for her to love: Love for her country, love for her people, and love for Theoden. Remember, it’s not until the Witch-King is threatening to prey upon Theoden that she’s inspired to defy him. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/90 "2010-09-14T16:47:17Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > She was motivated (in part) by glory, but she was _not_ motivated by fame. They’re not the same thing. It’s possible to die gloriously in a noble last stand that nobody living will ever even hear of. And she wasn’t entirely motivated by glory, either. It seems to me that that takes second place for her to love: Love for her country, love for her people, and love for Theoden. Remember, it’s not until the Witch-King is threatening to prey upon Theoden that she’s inspired to defy him. I am with those who think Eowyn was suicidally depressed myself. She didn’t care about fame at all; in fact she didn’t think fame was even a possibility, because she thought Rohan and Gondor were doomed. But she could not commit suicide by her own ethics and thus needed a valorous way out. The above should not be read as implying that Faramir healed her of her depression, incidentally. She was healed, but not by him. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/91 "2010-09-14T17:05:36Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Your mileage may vary, I suppose. Anyway I was going by the movie version, as it is an even day and thus I am free to acknowledge that Peter Jackson exists. Even by the movie version Arwen beats out Eowyn (in beauty) hands (and other body parts) down, any day of the week. Not even a contest. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/92 "2010-09-14T17:22:37Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > > Your mileage may vary, I suppose. Anyway I was going by the movie version, as it is an even day and thus I am free to acknowledge that Peter Jackson exists. > > Even by the movie version Arwen beats out Eowyn (in beauty) hands (and other body parts) down, any day of the week. Not even a contest. 😛 :: looks around vainly for _shrugging_ smiley, finds none, snarls & kicks passing raccoon in irritation :: Dicussions of which hot chicker is hotter are pointless. I mean, I think Peggy Olsen is the best looking character on Mad Men, but no one agrees. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/93 "2010-09-14T17:54:00Z")
Oops, was corrupted by the movies. Again. Sorry, it happens. You’re right; Eowyn looks not for renown, but just the opportunity to do great deeds, and to be with Aragorn. Once she thinks that Aragorn has gone to his own death, she is basically suicidally desperate for both her perceived loss of Aragorn and desperation to get out and about like the men, but she does not speak of gaining renown for herself. ---
**Author:** ![Maiira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@Maiira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maiira)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/94 "2010-09-14T18:12:01Z")
I’m too tall to be a hobbit, but goddammit, all I wanna do is sit around and eat all day. Y’all can have your adventures; I’ma go grab another beer. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/95 "2010-09-14T18:43:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Dicussions of which hot chicker is hotter are pointless. But not edgeless, if you’re discussing with a dwarf. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/96 "2010-09-14T20:52:37Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > She was motivated (in part) by glory, but she was _not_ motivated by fame. They’re not the same thing. It’s possible to die gloriously in a noble last stand that nobody living will ever even hear of. And she wasn’t entirely motivated by glory, either. It seems to me that that takes second place for her to love: Love for her country, love for her people, and love for Theoden. Remember, it’s not until the Witch-King is threatening to prey upon Theoden that she’s inspired to defy him. Die gloriously in a noble last stand that nobody living will ever hear of? Aragorn pointed out that this could be her fate, and she said: > [@Eowyn](#): > > All your words are but to say: You are a woman, and your place is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. ---
**Author:** ![Surly\_Chick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Surly\_Chick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surly_Chick)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/97 "2010-09-14T23:12:04Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I am with those who think Eowyn was suicidally depressed myself. Well then I doubly identify with her… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2010, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/98 "2010-09-19T23:06:41Z")
Can everybody play? > [@Christine O'Donnell](#): > > Look at the significance that he gives to Eowyn, the Lady of Rohan. She was a warrior spirit and, to me, that’s who I love. I mean, I aspire to be soft and gentle like Arwen, but realistically, I’m a fighter, like Eowyn. Found [here](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/19/opinion/19dowd.html)… ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256/99 "2010-09-20T08:33:33Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Dicussions of which hot chicker is hotter are pointless. > > But not edgeless, if you’re discussing with a dwarf. Nicely done. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-identify-with-gimli-how-about-you/553256.md?page=4)