# "I intend to write a strongly worded letter to the White Star Line about all of this", James Cameron's Titanic released 25 years ago today **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [December 20, 2022, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-intend-to-write-a-strongly-worded-letter-to-the-white-star-line-about-all-of-this-james-camerons-titanic-released-25-years-ago-today/976818 "2022-12-20T01:19:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2022, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-intend-to-write-a-strongly-worded-letter-to-the-white-star-line-about-all-of-this-james-camerons-titanic-released-25-years-ago-today/976818/61 "2022-12-23T03:40:32Z")
Naw, y’all are good. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@salinqmind1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind1)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2022, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-intend-to-write-a-strongly-worded-letter-to-the-white-star-line-about-all-of-this-james-camerons-titanic-released-25-years-ago-today/976818/62 "2022-12-23T15:21:44Z")
A hunky, but poor man like Jack engaged to a snooty wealthy young woman is one bizarre fantasy! Unless she was of his class, suddenly independently wealthy and offered her old pal from the neighborhood a sweet deal. Snooty wealthy young women of the time were, as Rose was, snatched up and cordoned off to mingle with their own kind. They lived the most constricted lives and never spoke to the lower classes, That’s why heroines like Rose in Titanic (and Scarlett O’Hara in Gone With the Wind and maybe the divorcing (!) Countess in Age of Innocence) are so rare and memorable. They burst the bonds, they were rebellious independent types. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2022, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-intend-to-write-a-strongly-worded-letter-to-the-white-star-line-about-all-of-this-james-camerons-titanic-released-25-years-ago-today/976818/63 "2022-12-23T18:09:49Z")
> [@salinqmind1](#): > > A hunky, but poor man like Jack engaged to a snooty wealthy young woman is one bizarre fantasy! I mean, that is actually a traditional motif going back much further: namely, “the humble apprentice and the master’s daughter”, or even the late master’s widow. Sometimes such relationships were born of spontaneous affection, sometimes frankly viewed as a career move. But you’re right, according to modern masculinity stereotypes it’s bizarre behavior for an impecunious attractive young man to “sell himself” into an advantageous but unfulfilling marriage. Even by the Victorian-ish period AFAICT, that would have made a male figure irredeemably comic, not heroic. There seems to have been a flare-up around that time of fictional comic situations where a male protagonist enters into such an engagement, reaps the pecuniary advantages of it, and then manages to get out of it before marriage: see, e.g., the Judge in [Gilbert and Sullivan’s Trial by Jury,](https://gsarchive.net/trial/tbj_lib.pdf) or [Kipling’s “The Post That Fitted”.](https://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poem/poems_post.htm) But nowadays even in comedy a male protagonist faking his way into a relationship for material advantage makes him fatally unsympathetic, AFAICT (Prince Hans in Frozen, anyone?). ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2022, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-intend-to-write-a-strongly-worded-letter-to-the-white-star-line-about-all-of-this-james-camerons-titanic-released-25-years-ago-today/976818/64 "2022-12-23T18:56:44Z")
It’s empowering for a young woman in Rose’s situation, in a male-dominated society and soon to be trapped in a loveless marriage to a jerk, to be able to choose her own lover. It also does her credit, from our modern perspective, that the man she chooses is from what she would otherwise be expected to look down upon as the lower classes. So of course we don’t hold it against her that she falls for Jack. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2022, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-intend-to-write-a-strongly-worded-letter-to-the-white-star-line-about-all-of-this-james-camerons-titanic-released-25-years-ago-today/976818/65 "2022-12-23T23:53:19Z")
Isn’t The Sound Of Music basically the reverse? Also there are differences between engagement scenarios and a marriage. A man can be seen as having social and family expectations and being brave and manly in risking those for a “common” woman provided she’s attractive enough. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2022, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-intend-to-write-a-strongly-worded-letter-to-the-white-star-line-about-all-of-this-james-camerons-titanic-released-25-years-ago-today/976818/66 "2022-12-24T03:02:36Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > Isn’t The Sound Of Music basically the reverse? Reverse of what? IIRC the Baroness that Captain von Trapp in Sound of Music gets engaged to is aristocratic and wealthy, but then so is he. And it’s the Baroness who eventually breaks off their engagement, because she recognizes that he’s in love with Maria. No cheating occurs, AFAIK. > [@Jay\_Z](#): > > A man can be seen as having social and family expectations and being brave and manly in risking those for a “common” woman provided she’s attractive enough. Sure. It’s not extramarital passion per se that makes a male character appear stereotypically “unmanly”, it’s the connotations of helplessness and “loserdom” that are attached to the notion of a man enduring an unhappy marriage for material advantage. (If, on the other hand, he is conscientiously staying with a wife who’s a permanent invalid or in an insane asylum or something, so as not to desert her in her trouble, then he is a super-sympathetic character and his torrid doomed extramarital passion is depicted as very romantic.) ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2022, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-intend-to-write-a-strongly-worded-letter-to-the-white-star-line-about-all-of-this-james-camerons-titanic-released-25-years-ago-today/976818/67 "2022-12-24T03:23:27Z")
Re-watching LOTR: The Two Towers reminds me that Bernard Hill was in both in Titanic (as the captain) and LOTR(TTT and ROTK) (as Théoden) . brian ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2022, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-intend-to-write-a-strongly-worded-letter-to-the-white-star-line-about-all-of-this-james-camerons-titanic-released-25-years-ago-today/976818/68 "2022-12-24T15:58:13Z")
That’s right. And David Warner, the arrogant millionaire’s henchman, was in _Tron, Time Bandits, A Christmas Carol_ with George C. Scott, not one but two _Star Trek_ movies, and _ST: TNG,_ among many other roles. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2023, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-intend-to-write-a-strongly-worded-letter-to-the-white-star-line-about-all-of-this-james-camerons-titanic-released-25-years-ago-today/976818/69 "2023-01-25T21:25:52Z")
Who knew icebergs could sing?!? [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/qP5bu9hLH9E/maxresdefault.jpg "Weekend Update: The Iceberg on the Sinking of the Titanic - SNL") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP5bu9hLH9E) ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2023, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-intend-to-write-a-strongly-worded-letter-to-the-white-star-line-about-all-of-this-james-camerons-titanic-released-25-years-ago-today/976818/70 "2023-01-26T02:04:05Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > That’s right. And David Warner, the arrogant millionaire’s henchman, was in _Tron, Time Bandits, A Christmas Carol_ with George C. Scott, not one but two _Star Trek_ movies, and _ST: TNG,_ among many other roles. He was also Jack the Ripper in _Time After Time_ with Malcolm McDowell and Mary Steenbergen. A nice little movie from 1979. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2023, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-intend-to-write-a-strongly-worded-letter-to-the-white-star-line-about-all-of-this-james-camerons-titanic-released-25-years-ago-today/976818/71 "2023-01-26T02:14:26Z")
I fell in crush with Mary Steenburgen when I saw that movie a year or two after release… ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2023, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-intend-to-write-a-strongly-worded-letter-to-the-white-star-line-about-all-of-this-james-camerons-titanic-released-25-years-ago-today/976818/72 "2023-01-26T21:06:02Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > > > That’s right. And David Warner, the arrogant millionaire’s henchman, was in _Tron, Time Bandits, A Christmas Carol_ with George C. Scott, not one but two _Star Trek_ movies, and _ST: TNG,_ among many other roles. > > He was also Jack the Ripper in _Time After Time_ with Malcolm McDowell and Mary Steenbergen. A nice little movie from 1979. Yes, it was! It was on heavy rotation in HBO’s early days, and I watched it a lot. ---
**Author:** ![DKW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dkw/32/3118_2.png) [@DKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DKW)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2023, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-intend-to-write-a-strongly-worded-letter-to-the-white-star-line-about-all-of-this-james-camerons-titanic-released-25-years-ago-today/976818/73 "2023-02-20T22:26:42Z")
[Debates internally whether to stick my neck into this. Checks DVR. Sees mostly women’s gymnastics for the foreseeable future. Briefly considers starting a thread on women’s gymnastics. Sighs, says the hell with it. Drags out old, creaky soapbox.) It was _all right_. It was _pretty decent_. It was _watchable_. (Not without three restroom breaks, minimum, but watchable.) It was, _on the whole_, a positive experience. I _kinda mostly liked it_. It wasn’t a waste of time. I was able to have a nice little discussion about it with my parents afterward, which I appreciated. The parts everyone said were great (set design, effects, costumes, the ship sinking) really were great. The parts everyone said were lousy (dialogue, plot holes, heavy-handedness) really were lousy. Leonardo DiCaprio was good. Kate Winslet was good. Billy Zane was…erm…dependable. I’d give it 6/10. That’s in the review sense, not the school sense. (Stop making everything about school. School sucks. 😠) That’s “not _gooooooood_, but not _baaaaaad_ either” or “good enough to be good enough” territory. I wouldn’t watch it again, but if it was playing somewhere in the mall I wouldn’t be driven away. James Cameron deserves all the credit for realizing that there was a massive untapped gold mine (girls with money) who’d been ignored for pretty much the entirety of American history and refusing to budge on his dream. He is a genius visionary who’s earned every bit of his success. He is also a colossal grandstanding arrogant jerk who I probably could not listen to for thirty seconds before stomping away in a huff. These two stances are fully compatible. 'Kay, I’m done. 🙂 [Goes back to watching tool-assisted speedruns.] ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2023, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-intend-to-write-a-strongly-worded-letter-to-the-white-star-line-about-all-of-this-james-camerons-titanic-released-25-years-ago-today/976818/74 "2023-02-21T00:09:54Z")
I’ve been needing new glasses for a few months now, so maybe I can blame this on them: On the movie poster (Jack in one upper corner, Rose in the other upper corner) is the bow of the ship supposed to be referencing **Jaws**? Even subliminally? I’m gonna go lie down in a dark room. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2023, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-intend-to-write-a-strongly-worded-letter-to-the-white-star-line-about-all-of-this-james-camerons-titanic-released-25-years-ago-today/976818/75 "2023-02-21T18:46:56Z")
> [@DKW](#): > > plot holes What plot holes? ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2023, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-intend-to-write-a-strongly-worded-letter-to-the-white-star-line-about-all-of-this-james-camerons-titanic-released-25-years-ago-today/976818/76 "2023-02-21T21:04:03Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > What plot holes?. I have to agree. There were a lot of plot _issues_ but no plot _holes_ as far as I can tell after watching it 30 times. 🙂 It’s one of the few movies my 70 year old mom went to in the theater, and enjoyed! Even at 3 hours 26 minutes with no intermission. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-intend-to-write-a-strongly-worded-letter-to-the-white-star-line-about-all-of-this-james-camerons-titanic-released-25-years-ago-today/976818/77 "2023-04-20T19:55:42Z")
Anyone hungry? > **[Dieppe restaurant offers a taste of the Titanic](https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/dieppe-restaurant-offers-a-taste-of-the-titanic-1.6344015)** > > A restaurant in Dieppe, N.B., is hosting a special event this month, giving guests a taste of the famous first class menu from the Titanic. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-intend-to-write-a-strongly-worded-letter-to-the-white-star-line-about-all-of-this-james-camerons-titanic-released-25-years-ago-today/976818/78 "2023-04-20T20:12:54Z")
Does the menu have cockie leekie? I don’t know what it is, I just like saying cockie leekie. 🙂 This part though: “We are sticking to the classics from the menu and the time period, however, we are going to put our own little spin on it, some more modern techniques" People just can’t leave well enough alone. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-intend-to-write-a-strongly-worded-letter-to-the-white-star-line-about-all-of-this-james-camerons-titanic-released-25-years-ago-today/976818/79 "2024-03-28T19:55:55Z")
It wasn’t me: [https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/27/style/titanic-door-prop-auction-planet-hollywood/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/27/style/titanic-door-prop-auction-planet-hollywood/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-intend-to-write-a-strongly-worded-letter-to-the-white-star-line-about-all-of-this-james-camerons-titanic-released-25-years-ago-today/976818/80 "2024-03-28T21:30:55Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > I have about a dozen film frames 15 months\* and that ebay link for a film frame is STILL THERE! I think you’re asking too much, buddy. \*My auction will go ooooooon and on… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-intend-to-write-a-strongly-worded-letter-to-the-white-star-line-about-all-of-this-james-camerons-titanic-released-25-years-ago-today/976818.md?page=3)