# I joined, and pledged support to Yes California today. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 11, 2016, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467 "2016-11-11T04:44:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/301 "2016-11-20T00:02:12Z")
over exposed?😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/302 "2016-11-20T00:18:08Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Pssssstttttt. It’s only been said 5 or 6 times, but somehow you missed it. > > We make water here in SoCal. We make if from the big, wide, deep blue Pacific ocean. > While most the US is shoveling snow in the winter, the sun is shining brightly on us here. The same sun that creates solar energy to power the process of desalinization. So, 365 days a year, we’re making water. > > PM me if you need further explanation and I’ll be happy to help you out. 🙂 If you’re so great with water, why do you get so much of it from other states AND have wage restrictions as well? If I only listened to what you posted in this thread, I would be under the impression that Californians water their lawn 24/7. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/303 "2016-11-20T00:29:55Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > While most the US is shoveling snow in the winter, the sun is shining brightly on us here. The same sun that creates solar energy to power the process of desalinization. So, 365 days a year, we’re making water. So while the rest of the US is shoveling fresh water … [Desalination plants aren’t a good solution for California drought](http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-20150426-column.html) > [@](#): > > Enthusiasm for desalination tends to overlook its high costs, which stem in part from its enormous energy demand and weighty environmental footprint. > > …MacLaggan himself doesn’t expect desalination to be “a major component in our lifetime” of the state’s overall water supply, although Poseidon has proposed to build a second desalination plant > > …it’s still among the most expensive water supply options. > > The least visible cost, of course, is environmental damage. Ocean inflows suck up and kill larval marine organisms. At the other end of the desalination cycle, the salt extracted from seawater produces a heavy brine to be pumped back into the ocean, potentially destabilizing the ecology around the outflows. > > …Other jurisdictions, including Santa Cruz and five Northern California water districts, have taken a look at the technology and backed off because of its expense and environmental implications. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/304 "2016-11-20T01:28:09Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > In your effort to push your short-sighted agenda you keep forgetting one thing. One rather big thing that sort of proves how false your rational is. > > -that thing is- > > This movement \*\*predates \*\*the national nightmare of 11/08/2016. But, and this is a big but here, being on the other side of the “wall” when the US government falters as a big, unexpected advantage in this referendum. My short sighted agenda? Do I like look like the pro secessionist and naive guy/gal/? advocating a disastrously dumb split? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/305 "2016-11-20T02:01:17Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > My short sighted agenda? Do I like look like the pro secessionist and naive guy/gal/? advocating a disastrously dumb split? Again the point has evaded your grasp. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/306 "2016-11-20T02:10:43Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > So while the rest of the US is shoveling fresh water … > [Desalination plants aren’t a good solution for California drought](http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-20150426-column.html) Water isn’t going to change. It is what it is. Most of California’s water comes from snowfall. snowfall in the northern and eastern part of the state. The Colorado River water doesn’t belong to other states. It’s covered by a treaty - all this has been explained. Desalinization works. The plant is open, go take a tour. You’ll see. Water is a non-issue. One more thing. A few years back, 7.8 million tons of grapes were grown commercially in the United States. California accounted for nearly 6.8 million tons, or 87 percent, of these grapes. Got wine? Want raisins? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/307 "2016-11-20T02:14:27Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > If you’re so great with water, why do you get so much of it from other states AND have wage restrictions as well? If I only listened to what you posted in this thread, I would be under the impression that Californians water their lawn 24/7. Most California jurisdictions have restrictions on how often you can water your lawns. I’m allowed to water 2 days a week. We’ve planted drought resistant plants. We don’t get water from other states. I’ve never once seen water imported to California from other states. Gonna cut off the Colorado? Good luck with that, it (the river) borders CA and AZ, and the Zonies might get a bit pissed at you for f’ing with their water. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/308 "2016-11-20T02:55:45Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Most California jurisdictions have restrictions on how often you can water your lawns. I’m allowed to water 2 days a week. We’ve planted drought resistant plants. With all that desalinated water you have, why can’t you water 7 days a week? > [@](#): > > We don’t get water from other states. Something like two-thirds of the water in Southern California is from water from another state. You can do the Bill Clinton “depends what the meaning of is is” sort of wordplay, but I’m sure you know quite well where that water is coming from. ---
**Author:** ![ultimate11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/49beb7/32.png) [@ultimate11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultimate11)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/309 "2016-11-20T04:47:43Z")
I still don’t see this going well. Say in 2020 (assuming they set up a one-year plan of transition) California splits. They would need to set a defense force and decide whether to have open borders (which might apply internationally) or not. The US might opt for open borders within California, but they might not. And how would they do interstate commerce with the United States? With other countries? I doubt the legislation will pass. 2019 is the start of the election process for president, at that point they might just hope for the next president to be the perfect democrat or something. That’s assuming the electoral college doesn’t change their votes against Trump this year or if they do, congress overrules the college. Besides, the financial cramp might ruin the plans for Desalination plants. ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/310 "2016-11-20T05:12:14Z")
I had this great post all typed up and ready to go in reply to some of what **Morgenstern** said most recently and when I hit the submit button, my login had apparently timed out do to inactivity as I fact checked myself before posting. As I sat here fuming about it, it hit me. The ballot is supposed to be cast in 2019. Thats right about when the election cycle starts to really hit its stride for the next presidential election. This is all a whoosh. On several different levels. I’m not saying that there isn’t a movement to get a secession vote on the ballot in California, its just that I can’t think of a worse time to try to get a vote on secession than at a presidential election cycle. Why not wait and see what happens with the oval office first? that’s much easier and less messy and might just work out in our favor, right? I bet Morgenstern has been sitting at the keyboard just giggling like a kid this whole time as we sit here banging our heads against the seemingly impenetrable wall of … bullheaded lack of thought?..not really sure what to call it. Well played Morgenstern, well played indeed. ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/311 "2016-11-20T05:19:08Z")
to late for the edit window, I see that **ultimate11** already pointed out the election cycle angle. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/312 "2016-11-20T05:27:06Z")
Thoughts like “they’ll need a military or they’ll be invaded!” No one is invading California. Sorry. “What about the water???” Most of the agriculture is in the Central Valley. SoCal needs water, but it needs it whether it’s independent or not. I keep hearing about a coming super drought or something, so California will have to do some things whether they get Colorado river water or not. A tremendous amount of water rains down on LA in the rainy season and most of it runs right back into the ocean, the Earth’s desalination plant. No, I’m not the biggest fan of desal plants, but they’ll eventually be necessary anyway and if you plan them right they shouldn’t be too hard on the environment. No one thinks the Colorado River is going to supply SoCal forever. People east of California love making “fruits and nuts” jokes, and engage in all sorts of delicious schadenfreude when CA gets hit with fires, mud slides, cliffs falling into the ocean and earthquakes but when CA starts talking about leaving, all of a sudden people get really upset. Admit it, you love CA and just don’t want it to go. Make some offers and quit taking if for granted. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/313 "2016-11-20T05:56:48Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > We don’t get water from other states. I’ve never once seen water imported to California from other states. Gonna cut off the Colorado? Good luck with that, it (the river) borders CA and AZ, and the Zonies might get a bit pissed at you for f’ing with their water. Most of the water California gets from the Colorado is diverted right near the Mexican border. Arizona has plenty of opportunity to divert (or simply poison) this water before the All-American Canal — they could take it along the Nevada-Arizona riverine border before it even gets to California. The treaty allocating California 4.4 million acre-feet annually might be deemed null and void when California withdraws from the Union. I think West America had better make sure it has nuclear weapons in case Donald Trump decides to play hardball. ---
**Author:** ![ultimate11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/49beb7/32.png) [@ultimate11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultimate11)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/314 "2016-11-20T06:06:28Z")
Somewhere in my mind, I can picture a Chinese takeover if California splits. That part of my mind is twisted, as I can’t figure out how it could work (in theory). > [@septimus](#): > > I think West America had better make sure it has nuclear weapons in case Donald Trump decides to play hardball. California has military bases, and I wonder if they have a nuke or two somewhere, but I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/315 "2016-11-20T06:16:59Z")
> [@ultimate11](#): > > Somewhere in my mind, I can picture a Chinese takeover if California splits. That part of my mind is twisted, as I can’t figure out how it could work (in theory). > > California has military bases, and I wonder if they have a nuke or two somewhere, but I doubt it. There are nuclear weapons stored at Nellis Air Force Base near Las Vegas. The slowness of a referendum may be at odds with the need for quick attacks against key military targets. But I’m afraid that a large majority of the Generals and Admirals in the Pacific theater are Trumpists. ---
**Author:** ![Jane\_Smythe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f04885/32.png) [@Jane\_Smythe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jane_Smythe)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/316 "2016-11-20T06:33:49Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > A year ago, I would have been against this movement, saying that keeping the Union together was as important now as in Lincoln’s time. But now, I’m having second thoughts. And the worldwide trend seems to be isolation and separation, not togetherness. > > As an ex-Californian, I can’t oppose it. > > Wonder what the political climate will be like in another 20 years. He’s only going to be there for 4 years, at most, if someone doesn’t kill him first or if he is impeached. It’s not worth breaking up the Union. He isn’t worth it. Don’t give him so much power. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/317 "2016-11-20T06:48:25Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Again the point has evaded your grasp. No. You haven’t made a logically consistent point nor have you seriously addressed what the precedent of secession actually means. Plus you are coming across as selfish and hateful of the poor. How illiberal. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/318 "2016-11-20T06:51:02Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Thoughts like “they’ll need a military or they’ll be invaded!” No one is invading California. Sorry. > > “What about the water???” Most of the agriculture is in the Central Valley. SoCal needs water, but it needs it whether it’s independent or not. I keep hearing about a coming super drought or something, so California will have to do some things whether they get Colorado river water or not. A tremendous amount of water rains down on LA in the rainy season and most of it runs right back into the ocean, the Earth’s desalination plant. No, I’m not the biggest fan of desal plants, but they’ll eventually be necessary anyway and if you plan them right they shouldn’t be too hard on the environment. No one thinks the Colorado River is going to supply SoCal forever. > > People east of California love making “fruits and nuts” jokes, and engage in all sorts of delicious schadenfreude when CA gets hit with fires, mud slides, cliffs falling into the ocean and earthquakes but when CA starts talking about leaving, all of a sudden people get really upset. Admit it, you love CA and just don’t want it to go. Make some offers and quit taking if for granted. Why not invade California? ---
**Author:** ![ultimate11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/49beb7/32.png) [@ultimate11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultimate11)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/319 "2016-11-20T08:23:34Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Why not invade California? My mind was saying the same thing too when I mentioned the possibility of a Chinese takeover _if_ California splits. But I still can’t picture it. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/320 "2016-11-20T10:49:51Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Water isn’t going to change. It is what it is. Most of California’s water comes from snowfall. snowfall in the northern and eastern part of the state. The Colorado River water doesn’t belong to other states. It’s covered by a treaty - all this has been explained. It was only a couple of years ago when Jerry Brown was standing in the sierras saying “there should be 5 feet of snow here right now.” [http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article17115506.html](http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article17115506.html) Did you forget that _already_? > [@](#): > > Desalinization works. The plant is open, go take a tour. You’ll see. > > Water is a non-issue. “The plant.” One. You’ll need a lot more than one plant, and a hell of a lot of energy production (which you don’t have) to run them. > [@](#): > > One more thing. A few years back, 7.8 million tons of grapes were grown commercially in the United States. California accounted for nearly 6.8 million tons, or 87 percent, of these grapes. Got wine? Want raisins? Is California actually seceding, or do you just want us to kiss your asses and fawn over how important you are? 'Cos I can’t tell anymore. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467.md?page=17)