# I joined, and pledged support to Yes California today. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 11, 2016, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467 "2016-11-11T04:44:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/321 "2016-11-20T16:13:24Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > _snip_ > > People east of California love making “fruits and nuts” jokes, and engage in all sorts of delicious schadenfreude when CA gets hit with fires, mud slides, cliffs falling into the ocean and earthquakes but when CA starts talking about leaving, all of a sudden people get really upset. Admit it, you love CA and just don’t want it to go. Make some offers and quit taking if for granted. I don’t really care one way or the other about California in and of itself. What I and a lot of other people DO care about is the United States as a whole. Explain to me why we should treat California as something special (more than we do already) and why we should make an offer. Truth be told, if it wasn’t for the long term impact on the sovereignty of the US in general, I’d say let California go. The way things would shake out in the 15 to 25 years after secession would leave the Republic of California 3rd world vassal state of Mexico or some other country anyway. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/322 "2016-11-20T17:07:00Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Why not invade California? Who would ever consider it? Even if CA did secede, it’s still physically attached to the US. Japan attacked Hawaii and got nuked. Russia tried to move into Cuba and almost got nuked. The US would never sit back and let Canada be invaded, nor Mexico. I suppose Guatemala could try to invade Mexico and the world would snicker while Mexico handles it. We’d offer our assistance as a matter of course, while still snickering. North America is never getting invaded while the US exists. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/323 "2016-11-20T17:10:55Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > North America is never getting invaded while the US exists. Except some seem to be considering exactly that. You really think Texas would not secede in this alternative universe if CA did so w/o consequences? And then which state is next after that? You have folks in this thread ready to throw OR and WA into the mix right away. Once CA, and especially CA, secedes, that is quite likely the beginning of the end of the US. ---
**Author:** ![akennett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee59a6/32.png) [@akennett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akennett)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/324 "2016-11-20T18:08:10Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > There are nuclear weapons stored at Nellis Air Force Base near Las Vegas. > > The slowness of a referendum may be at odds with the need for quick attacks against key military targets. But I’m afraid that a large majority of the Generals and Admirals in the Pacific theater are Trumpists. So, you’re afraid that American military commanders would remain loyal to the US and its President? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/325 "2016-11-20T18:26:21Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > There are nuclear weapons stored at Nellis Air Force Base near Las Vegas. > > The slowness of a referendum may be at odds with the need for quick attacks against key military targets. But I’m afraid that a large majority of the Generals and Admirals in the Pacific theater are Trumpists. If the Californian rebels try to get those nukes, the result will be similar to the response to the attack on Fort Sumter. Only much quicker. More than Trumpists are loyal to the USA. I’ve been wondering: This Great Movement is very White, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/326 "2016-11-20T18:37:10Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Who would ever consider it? Even if CA did secede, it’s still physically attached to the US. Japan attacked Hawaii and got nuked. Russia tried to move into Cuba and almost got nuked. The US would never sit back and let Canada be invaded, nor Mexico. I suppose Guatemala could try to invade Mexico and the world would snicker while Mexico handles it. We’d offer our assistance as a matter of course, while still snickering. > > North America is never getting invaded while the US exists. How parasitical. That said, once California seceded not only would there be potential for further splitting of the remainder, but each state may fracture. At this point the former would be Balkanized and there would be a lot of bitterness. There’d be at least one war. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/327 "2016-11-20T18:55:35Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > How parasitical. That said, once California seceded not only would there be potential for further splitting of the remainder, but each state may fracture. At this point the former would be Balkanized and there would be a lot of bitterness. There’d be at least one war. Maybe. In 100 years I imagine the US, and the world, will look quite a bit different. In the nearer term, big business doesn’t want anything to happen that would disrupt business as usual (prolly why secession won’t happen) and the whole process would be very business like, with as little disruption as possible. It would be amicable, the US and California would remain close allies. A lot of Americans probably would like a nice bloody civil war just because they’re bored, but I don’t see it happening right now. I definitely don’t see it happening in the next four years. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/328 "2016-11-20T19:40:04Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > If the Californian rebels try to get those nukes, the result will be similar to the response to the attack on Fort Sumter. Only much quicker. More than Trumpists are loyal to the USA. > > I’ve been wondering: This Great Movement is very White, isn’t it? Only if you chose to ignore the numbers of yellow, red, brown, and black voters who voted for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/329 "2016-11-20T19:58:24Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Maybe. In 100 years I imagine the US, and the world, will look quite a bit different. > > In the nearer term, big business doesn’t want anything to happen that would disrupt business as usual (prolly why secession won’t happen) and the whole process would be very business like, with as little disruption as possible. It would be amicable, the US and California would remain close allies. A lot of Americans probably would like a nice bloody civil war just because they’re bored, but I don’t see it happening right now. > > I definitely don’t see it happening in the next four years. see, this is the bit that puzzles me the most. We are talking about the future of not just one or two or three coastal states, we are talking about the future of the US as a whole. I cannot understand why anyone would think that a parting would be or remain peaceful or amicable. Big Business, sure, whatever, business isn’t even _small_ potatoes compared to what is truly at stake. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/330 "2016-11-20T20:15:54Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Who would ever consider it? The cartels that already have effective control of northern Mexico may well consider pushing north of the border into CA’s southern counties. That’s not what you may consider an invasion but it’s a real security threat which can affect rule of law. Potentially the threat includes San Diego, California’s second largest city. It will take more than typical law enforcement to handle. Many of those cartels maintain forces that make them effective paramilitary forces including having been trained by former central-american special operations and military personnel. There was a story I saw from 2010 IIRC where one of the cartels conducted a Company level ambush (including small arms, machine guns, anti-tank weapons, and directional mines) on another cartels very large convoy. They continue to display the willingness and capability to conduct effective ambushes on both Mexican police and military convoys. California would need to commit early to prevent a power vacuum along the border that could be exploited by the cartels. You think police forces in the US are militarized now, wait till they are training to respond to criminals trained, equipped, and experienced at using effective light infantry tactics. Without effective security forces to deal with the threat it’s basically just trusting to the good graces of the cartel heads. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/331 "2016-11-21T12:11:36Z")
In a 100 years all the territories stolen in the Mexican-American War will probably be readepted to Mexico. Not so much by Mexican action, or _La Raza_ but by crushing white guilt for existing. What is 2 or 300 years in the time the North American landmass has existed ? ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/332 "2016-11-22T04:29:55Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/333 "2016-11-22T13:58:38Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > What we need is an efficient way to get Northern California water to Southern California. Why should Northern California go along with that? Northern Cali has 14.5 million people. Southern Cali has 22.6 million. Your argument is that California should leave the Union because other states get to elect Senators and Representatives to Congress. The same is true of Northern Cali, their water-leeching, looter cousins to the South would control the Cali government. So why should Northern Cali go along? > [@Morgenstern](#): > > California is a net contributor, a _donor_ state. Obviously, if CA pays more for benefits than those benefits cost, CA could easily afford to provide the very same benefits, AND save money doing it, IF we were not subsidizing the recipient states. So, what happens when people realize that different areas of California pay different aggregate amounts of tax, based on their wealth? Do the richest parts get to secede from the poorer parts, to escape having to subsidize them? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/334 "2016-11-22T14:18:23Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Even if CA did secede, it’s still physically attached to the US. So were South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Texas, Virginia, Arkansas, North Carolina, and Tennessee. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/335 "2016-11-22T14:45:05Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So were South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Texas, Virginia, Arkansas, North Carolina, and Tennessee. > > Regards, > Shodan And they’re all still there, amazingly enough. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/336 "2016-11-22T14:55:37Z")
Morgenstern: The California People’s Front Human Action: The People’s Front of California [Damned splitters](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUBAx8jbYNs)! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![GulfTiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e79b87/32.png) [@GulfTiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GulfTiger)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/337 "2016-11-22T14:56:15Z")
Congrats! As son of the South, and a direct descendant of Confederates, you folks in California have my sympathy and support! Until recently, southerners were the only ones who knew what it felt like to live in an occupied country. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/338 "2016-11-22T15:05:13Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Why should Northern California go along with that? Northern Cali has 14.5 million people. Southern Cali has 22.6 million. > > Your argument is that California should leave the Union because other states get to elect Senators and Representatives to Congress. The same is true of Northern Cali, their water-leeching, looter cousins to the South would control the Cali government. So why should Northern Cali go along? You’re forgetting the part about “one person, one vote.” > [@Human\_Action](#): > > So, what happens when people realize that different areas of California pay different aggregate amounts of tax, based on their wealth? Do the richest parts get to secede from the poorer parts, to escape having to subsidize them? You forget, in America, the rich pay no taxes for 19+ years. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/339 "2016-11-22T15:10:42Z")
> [@GulfTiger](#): > > Congrats! > > As son of the South, and a direct descendant of Confederates, you folks in California have my sympathy and support! > > Until recently, southerners were the only ones who knew what it felt like to live in an occupied country. Yes. According to everything I’ve read here. Suggestions about blockading California roads, destroying our ports and port cities, banning any water entering California, and the use of military force to prevent succession, etc. I get it. I also get where the world thinks the US is a bit early flexing its military muscle most of the time. I wonder how the UN’s charter re self-governing will be interpreted in view of California already being self-governing when the US responds to the election with such draconian means. Sort of proves the case for us I think. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/340 "2016-11-22T15:14:43Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I wonder how the UN’s charter re self-governing will be interpreted in view of California already being self-governing when the US responds to the election with such draconian means. Sort of proves the case for us I think. It was decided in 1865 - nothing has changed dramatically since then. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467.md?page=18)