# I joined, and pledged support to Yes California today. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 11, 2016, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467 "2016-11-11T04:44:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 46
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/901 "2017-01-25T23:47:22Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > And when the Southerns say no out of spite (“if we can’t get out, you sure as hell can’t”) and the Yankees say no because, despite all your reasoned arguments about the UN Charter, they instantly see what a horrible electoral position #CalExit leaves them in, and refuse to sign onto the Democratic Party suicide pact, what then? > > Just curious, do you have a target list of 37 states you’re going to try to bribe or reason with? Are there any that you think are lost causes, that there’s no way you’d ever convince to go along with it, so you’ve put them in the basket of deplorables list that you’re hoping doesn’t grow to 13? Once it’s on the plate, and CA has voted for independence, then CA’s entire governmental bureaucracy is dedicated to working for this. Trump will continue to hemorrhage support our way between now and then. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/902 "2017-01-26T00:01:45Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Once it’s on the plate, and CA has voted for independence, then CA’s entire governmental bureaucracy is dedicated to working for this. Trump will continue to hemorrhage support our way between now and then. I think ([just as Trump has found with the federal bureaucracy](http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/01/national-park-service-defies-trump-gag-order-tweets-climate-change-facts)) that one election doesn’t necessarily quash all opposition and grant one full and immediate compliance / support from all employees within the government towards the election winner’s goals. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/903 "2017-01-26T00:06:17Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Precedent. You might want to look at the details of Philippine Independence. [Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Philippines_(1946%E2%80%9365)#Recognition_of_independence) will do fine. They did not get the sweetheart deal you so casually assume is the only option once we start negotiating. The US looked out for it’s own interests in the terms it set. The Philippines is a case of a territory thousands of miles from the continental US. There’s another more relevant precedent that directly relates to to states on the continent leaving the Union. I’m pretty sure you won’t be all that happy or have things work out as well as you expect if we follow the Philippines precedent and play hard ball during negotiations. If we follow the most relevant precedent … well you always have Mecha-Streisand. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/904 "2017-01-26T00:11:22Z")
I’ve changed my mind. Sort of. I’m willing to meet the secede folks half-way. You guys south of Monterey County are welcome to leave. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out. You can call your new country La-La-Land. And we’ll be keeping our water, thank-you very much! ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/905 "2017-01-26T00:17:54Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’ve changed my mind. Sort of. I’m willing to meet the secede folks half-way. You guys south of Monterey County are welcome to leave. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out. You can call your new country La-La-Land. And we’ll be keeping our water, thank-you very much! I used to live in Monterey County too! ---
**Author:** ![bobo\_blesinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecae2f/32.png) [@bobo\_blesinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobo_blesinger)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/906 "2017-01-26T00:49:28Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > We gonna do this again? Ca hasn’t voted yet. Assuming CA becomes an independent nation, we’re free to do with it as we choose. I’m sure the US will negotiate for “their” bases. > > It’ll probably go something like this… > > \*The United States of America agrees to withdraw and surrender, and does hereby withdraw and surrender, all right of possession, supervision, jurisdiction, control or sovereignty existing and exercised by the United States of America in and over the territory and the people of the Philippine Islands, except the use of such bases, necessary appurtenances to such bases, and the rights incident thereto, as the United States of America, by agreement with the Republic of the Philippines, may deem necessary to retain for the mutual protection of the United States of America and of the Republic of the Philippines. The United States of America further agrees to recognize, and does hereby recognize, the independence of the Republic of the Philippines as a separate self-governing nation and to acknowledge, and does hereby acknowledge, the authority and control over the same of the Government instituted by the people thereof, under the Constitution of the Republic of the Philippines.” > \* > > “…by agreement with…” It’s up there. Precedent. I’m a Californian. You’re a damned fool. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/907 "2017-01-26T00:50:49Z")
> [@bobo\_blesinger](#): > > I’m a Californian. You’re a damned fool. Please do not appear to insult other posters. If you feel you must, the BBQ Pit is right around the corner. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/908 "2017-01-26T00:56:27Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > No, they are beneficiaries of a lease of Real Property from our glorious Republic. > > Excuse my levity in this. See, people have gone on and on for pages now about why this can’t happen. The fact is it is happening. no. what is “happening” is that Californians might _vote_ on this. The problem is, that’s by far the _easiest_ part in the whole process. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/909 "2017-01-26T02:02:32Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > We gonna do this again? Ca hasn’t voted yet. Assuming CA becomes an independent nation, we’re free to do with it as we choose. I’m sure the US will negotiate for “their” bases. Another flip-flop then, now you’re saying you ARE going to seize US Federal government property, and military bases at that. But I thought this was all going to be peaceful and quiet and provide no justification for use of force! BTW, how did seizing a US military base after declaring itself not part of the US work out for South Carolina the last time someone tried this? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/910 "2017-01-26T02:11:55Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > BTW, how did seizing a US military base after declaring itself not part of the US work out for South Carolina the last time someone tried this? Precidents only count when the OP uses them. I really think the California independence movement should just go full sovereign citizen. Why bother with a referendum when the people of California can just say, “I do not form rejoinder with the United States!!!” and become instantly free. Then they can also file a whole bunch of liens on military bases, too. ---
**Author:** ![Phrozen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/22d042/32.png) [@Phrozen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phrozen)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/911 "2017-01-26T08:18:39Z")
Morgenstern: I’ve asked this, I think four times now, and you’ve neglected to answer. What is Plan B? What will Calexit do (or what would YOU do) when, after the petition and the vote and the CA Constitutional Amendment and so on, when the rest of the US says “no?” What will you do then? Just give up and go home? Open revolt? Reoccupy Sealand? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/912 "2017-01-26T09:16:28Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > As I mentioned up in post #59 the California legislature can spend it fast than you can give it to them. > … Moonbeam 10 BILLION … 12 BILLION. > > Give the Gov and the legislature an extra 16 billion dollars and they will bankrupt the new nation in about 18 months. :eek: :rolleyes: California, reduced to a veritable 3rd-world cesspool, should be very grateful to the productive states like Alabama and West Virginia for propping it up. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/913 "2017-01-26T11:17:52Z")
Here’s an article I just ran across. Calexit won’t happen soon, and really liberals across the US should be rallying for California as their strongest defender against Trump and fighting for liberal and environmental values instead of just sitting back, mocking them and sipping their beer. > **[Can California Stop Trumpism at its Borders?](https://www.newsweek.com/2017/02/03/california-can-defeat-trump-heres-how-542758.html)** > > California is preparing to lead the national revolt against the new president. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/914 "2017-01-26T14:27:17Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Here’s an article I just ran across. Calexit won’t happen soon, and really liberals across the US should be rallying for California as their strongest defender against Trump and fighting for liberal and environmental values instead of just sitting back, mocking them and sipping their beer. > > [California v. Trump: The Fight Begins for Health Care, Immigration and the Future of America - Newsweek](http://www.newsweek.com/2017/02/03/california-can-defeat-trump-heres-how-542758.html) That was pretty good. As a Californian, I can attest to that being a fair and accurate assessment. I did’t grow up here, but I’v lived here most of my adult life, and I wouldn’t want to live anywhere else. I’m thrilled to be a Californian, but I’m an American and have no interest in becoming something else. And while I, too, dislike being closely shackled to the good folks in Mississippi and Georgia, a better and more practical solution to that problem\* is advocate for more of a Federalist system, where states take the lead in things like Health Care, Welfare, etc. Immigration, of course, has to be a national issue, but there are many things that the states are perfectly capable of doing if allowed to. \*Still an enormously uphill battle, but better than wasting energy on fantasies like secession. As noted in that Newsweek article: > [@](#): > > Even if the majority of Californians vote for Marinelli’s proposal, peaceful secession from the United States would be nearly impossible, says just about everyone with a knowledge of our federalized system. Pishevar seems to have decided as much; in the days following the election, he backed away from his call for secession. Once ringing with secessionary bravado, his Twitter feed is now protected. A press representative tells me Pishevar wasn’t going to discuss the issue. Emphasis added ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/915 "2017-01-26T16:14:53Z")
You all are making one big mistake. You’re underestimating the resolve of Californian’s. _The state’s citizens have voted in measures to increase taxes, legalize marijuana, restrict the rights of gun owners and enact criminal justice reforms. While conservative state legislatures are debating pointless “bathroom bills,” California has passed what some say are the strongest LGBT protections in the entire world. The state hasn’t found a remedy for earthquakes, but a company in Silicon Valley has what appears to be a workable solution. It involves houses that hover._’ With a populating this intelligent, we’ll get what we want. Tough road it be, but there’s a road. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/916 "2017-01-26T16:16:01Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That was pretty good. As a Californian, I can attest to that being a fair and accurate assessment. I did’t grow up here, but I’v lived here most of my adult life, and I wouldn’t want to live anywhere else. I’m thrilled to be a Californian, but I’m an American and have no interest in becoming something else. And while I, too, dislike being closely shackled to the good folks in Mississippi and Georgia, a better and more practical solution to that problem\* is advocate for more of a Federalist system, where states take the lead in things like Health Care, Welfare, etc. Immigration, of course, has to be a national issue, but there are many things that the states are perfectly capable of doing if allowed to. > > \*Still an enormously uphill battle, but better than wasting energy on fantasies like secession. As noted in that Newsweek article: > > Emphasis added You underlined the wrong part… Start with the word “nearly.” Changes everything you say. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/917 "2017-01-26T16:40:06Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > You all are making one big mistake. You’re underestimating the resolve of Californian’s. Californian’s what? > [@](#): > > With a populating this intelligent, we’ll get what we want. Tough road it be, but there’s a road. Again, the road is easy. Just declare, “I do not wish to form rejoinder with the United States!!!” and you’ll be free. Plus for $50 I’ll sell you a kit that shows how you can discharge all debts that are formed under the corporation of your LEGAL NAME, as opposed to your legal name. ---
**Author:** ![Phrozen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/22d042/32.png) [@Phrozen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phrozen)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/918 "2017-01-26T18:48:38Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > You all are making one big mistake. You’re underestimating the resolve of Californian’s. > > _The state’s citizens have voted in measures to increase taxes, legalize marijuana, restrict the rights of gun owners and enact criminal justice reforms. While conservative state legislatures are debating pointless “bathroom bills,” California has passed what some say are the strongest LGBT protections in the entire world. The state hasn’t found a remedy for earthquakes, but a company in Silicon Valley has what appears to be a workable solution. It involves houses that hover._’ > > With a populating this intelligent, we’ll get what we want. Tough road it be, but there’s a road. So that’s a no, then, on getting my simple question answered? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/919 "2017-01-26T19:03:26Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > You all are making one big mistake. You’re underestimating the resolve of Californian’s. _Californians_. And no, we’re not underestimating their resolve. The 1500 nutjobs you speak for are vastly outnumbered by the ~20 million other Californians who don’t give a shit or want to remain part of the Union. California has 53 representatives in the House. Not a single one supports “Calexit.” I don’t know what a state that is resolved to become independent looks like, but I’m pretty sure it doesn’t have 53 legislators who don’t want independence. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/920 "2017-01-26T19:46:55Z")
40 million. 🆒 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467.md?page=45) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467.md?page=47)