# I joined, and pledged support to Yes California today. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 11, 2016, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467 "2016-11-11T04:44:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/81 "2016-11-12T16:23:06Z")
The 13 colonies will leave the UK. What a shame. Oh, wait. Now they’re two pretty swell countries that get along fine. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/82 "2016-11-12T16:23:40Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > … > Second problem is: Would you like to bet how many members of the California National Guard are rabid leftists and would support this? Both of them? > Try to secede and the California Nat Guard gets nationalized. You are then left with the hipsters of the elite 1st hashtag battalion of the 2nd Twitter regiment who will be armed with bongs and dildos. Because you know guns are icky. You know, that conjures up images of Kent State. Those innocent, peaceful protesters putting flowers in the barrels of the National Guard troops, just before the Guard opened fire and killed several of the kids. Succession isn’t possible with guns and bullets. Succession is done at the ballot box, one person at a time, voting for a new beginning. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/83 "2016-11-12T18:02:49Z")
> [@MoodIndigo1](#): > > California doesn’t need Nevada or any other state Post snipped. Until Nevada turns off the water. At which point California agriculture stops dead. Slee ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/84 "2016-11-12T18:26:31Z")
I have a feeling that one major burp from the San Andreas fault will eat up quite a bit of that “16 billion in annual tax savings” that the future Republic of California is supposed to enjoy. Probably there’d be a considerable amount of charitable disaster relief flowing in from outside California, but nothing remotely like the assistance it could count on from the federal government. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/85 "2016-11-12T18:27:00Z")
Morgenstern, if you really believe that initial paragraph you wrote in response to me, then good luck. I seriously doubt that this is anything more than short-tempered posturing by people who have thought little about their arguments or the implications thereof… you know, like this year’s third-party voters. But have at it, waste your energies on foolishness… which is also a very Californian trait. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/86 "2016-11-12T19:17:08Z")
This has been a fun speculative thread, but I want to address some things. Dual Citizenship with the US and the Republic of California; If California were to secede from the US what in the world makes anyone think that the United States would allow dual citizenship? Someone mentioned water from Nevada. The Colorado River isn’t the only water source for California. Water rights in Idaho are finally starting to get sorted out and settled after almost 2 generations of lawsuits and legal wrangling that the state encouraged because California was lobbying congress to give Idaho’s water to California. DC re-diverts the Colorado River back to its original course and shuts off all water imports to the state allowing it to revert to the desert it originally was. The Citizens of California either import food or start getting hungry. The talk of all the savings from not maintaining a military; Maybe China couldn’t do it, maybe they could invade. Then there is Russia, hard to believe the Kremlin wouldn’t be casting a speculative look. Let’s not forget Mexico, our friends to the south of us just might like to have California back, along with Texas, New Mexico, Arizona etc. California Free State without a military is a sitting duck for whatever group waltzes in and occupies it. Friendly relations with most of the world and massive private ownership of firearms or not, they’re gonna have to have a military. All that money that California pays as a net contributor to the Federal Government. Do you really think that Washington D.C. is going to just let that money walk away freely? The idea that California’s economy is so large inspite of being part of the US instead of because of it. Hogwash and Nonsense, the very advantages that make that possible, the ones people are gleefully pointing out, are the very things that are provided by the US Government. Military protection, fair business dealings across state borders, etc. That stuff eats up a lot of money and resources. Secession is done with votes not bullets. This one really takes the cake. The _start_ of secession is done with votes. Getting the job done takes bullets, bombs and boots on the ground. And someone who knows how to use them effectively and correctly. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/87 "2016-11-12T19:36:41Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > Post snipped. > > Until Nevada turns off the water. At which point California agriculture stops dead. > > Slee Nevada can’t turn off the water. The Colorado river doesn’t belong to Nevada. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/88 "2016-11-12T19:52:27Z")
> [@guestchaz](#): > > This has been a fun speculative thread, but I want to address some things. > > Dual Citizenship with the US and the Republic of California; If California were to secede from the US what in the world makes anyone think that the United States would allow dual citizenship? Dual citizenship is not a problem. US citizens are allowed to live in foreign lands, without losing any claim to their citizenship. That’s not a concern at all. > [@guestchaz](#): > > Someone mentioned water from Nevada. The Colorado River isn’t the only water source for California. Water rights in Idaho are finally starting to get sorted out and settled after almost 2 generations of lawsuits and legal wrangling that the state encouraged because California was lobbying congress to give Idaho’s water to California. DC re-diverts the Colorado River back to its original course and shuts off all water imports to the state allowing it to revert to the desert it originally was. The Citizens of California either import food or start getting hungry. International law would forbid that. The same law Mexico quotes when they point out that the US is using too much of the Colorado river water. > [@guestchaz](#): > > The talk of all the savings from not maintaining a military; Maybe China couldn’t do it, maybe they could invade. Then there is Russia, hard to believe the Kremlin wouldn’t be casting a speculative look. Let’s not forget Mexico, our friends to the south of us just might like to have California back, along with Texas, New Mexico, Arizona etc. California Free State without a military is a sitting duck for whatever group waltzes in and occupies it. Friendly relations with most of the world and massive private ownership of firearms or not, they’re gonna have to have a military. Not even a likely scenario. Too many US military bases in California, just like in Japan and South Korea. > [@guestchaz](#): > > All that money that California pays as a net contributor to the Federal Government. Do you really think that Washington D.C. is going to just let that money walk away freely? Yes. California will be a independent nation. Possibly even a nation that issues its own currency. That will be voted on after the Spring 2019 referendum. The US will have no legal claim to assets of a sovereign nation. > [@guestchaz](#): > > The idea that California’s economy is so large inspite of being part of the US instead of because of it. Hogwash and Nonsense, the very advantages that make that possible, the ones people are gleefully pointing out, are the very things that are provided by the US Government. Military protection, fair business dealings across state borders, etc. That stuff eats up a lot of money and resources. None of that is necessary. Part of the reason for succession would be to get rid of that. Fair business dealings? Capitalism will sort all that out. A new market of 38.8 million people will be noticed. > [@guestchaz](#): > > Secession is done with votes not bullets. This one really takes the cake. The _start_ of secession is done with votes. Getting the job done takes bullets, bombs and boots on the ground. And someone who knows how to use them effectively and correctly. No one is advocating any means other than peaceful in this. Period. If the US were to resort to military means to retain California the World would have a field day condemning the US. Once California is independent and a member of the UN, what is the US to do? All we have to do is vote in 2019. An uphill battle to be sure, but Calexit coming just as Brexit came. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/89 "2016-11-12T19:58:50Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Morgenstern, if you really believe that initial paragraph you wrote in response to me, then good luck. I seriously doubt that this is anything more than short-tempered posturing by people who have thought little about their arguments or the implications thereof… you know, like this year’s third-party voters. But have at it, waste your energies on foolishness… which is also a very Californian trait. 😉 Like it or not, the vote is coming in 2019. I can’t predict how my fellow Californian’s will vote, but they will vote. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/90 "2016-11-12T20:43:28Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Nevada can’t turn off the water. The Colorado river doesn’t belong to Nevada. If California were to leave the country, sure we could. The Corado river compact is an agreement between states. For the purposes of this discussion, only NV, AZ and CA matter. Las Vegas is water starved as it is as we are emptying Mead so California can grow rice in a desert\*. Leave the country, CA is not a state and therefore the compact would be void. Do you believe NV or AZ is going to say ‘Sure, you want to be your own country, great. Take the water anyway. It’ll be great’ while having water problems of their own? NV gets 4 percent of that water, AZ gets 37% and CA gets the rest. Ya think that AZ and NV wouldn’t split CAs nearly 60% of the water and grow our own rice? Of course, Mexico gets some too, but if CA started stealing Mexicos water, things would get ugly quick. Slee \*California actually does grow rice in a freakng desert. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/91 "2016-11-12T20:58:05Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Not even a likely scenario. Too many US military bases in California, just like in Japan and South Korea. > e. So, you are assuming the US gubment is going to leave you those military bases fully equipped? You’ll probably be lucky if they leave the carpet in those otherwise empty buildings and the doors on the empty aircraft hangars. The feds will probably be nice enough to leave you all that nuclear waste you have sitting around though. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/92 "2016-11-12T21:08:52Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Like it or not, the vote is coming in 2019. I can’t predict how my fellow Californian’s will vote, but they will vote. I can: not enough. This idea is ridiculous. You want all of the good without any of the obligations. You assume free trade and mitary protection. You assume the US would be okay with it. How great would your economy be after the US enacts a trade embargo? ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/93 "2016-11-12T21:16:35Z")
I bet in your scenario, the US still helps out with your wild fires, right? And provides welfare, educational assistance, and highway funding and all of the positives. You just get to ignore the rules and leaders you don’t like. Is that it? ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/94 "2016-11-12T21:47:14Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Dual citizenship is not a problem. US citizens are allowed to live in foreign lands, without losing any claim to their citizenship. That’s not a concern at all. Hmm, the more likely scenario I see is that at best, the offer is to leave California or become a permanent resident and once the rebellion is declared citizenship is up in the air. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > International law would forbid that. The same law Mexico quotes when they point out that the US is using too much of the Colorado river water. Someone else already addressed this point > [@Morgenstern](#): > > Not even a likely scenario. Too many US military bases in California, just like in Japan and South Korea. Someone else already addressed this point also. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > Yes. California will be a independent nation. Possibly even a nation that issues its own currency. That will be voted on after the Spring 2019 referendum. The US will have no legal claim to assets of a sovereign nation. So you think that the US Government is just going to sit back and throw their collective hands up in the air when the people of California vote to rebel and not militarily intervene one bit? Posse Comitatus did not apply to the Dept. of the Navy or the Air Force or the Coast Guard or the Army or Air National Guard and in fact does not apply in the case of any state going into open rebellion. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > None of that is necessary. Part of the reason for succession would be to get rid of that. Fair business dealings? Capitalism will sort all that out. A new market of 38.8 million people will be noticed. And not taken advantage of until the actual status of your new nation is fully resolved. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > No one is advocating any means other than peaceful in this. Period. Military action and violence are inevitable. To think that the US would not intervene military if needed, or that some other country would not invade a defenseless country is ignoring all of history and human nature. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > If the US were to resort to military means to retain California the World would have a field day condemning the US. Once California is independent and a member of the UN, what is the US to do? see my above answer. The US won’t let California go peacefully, the best you can hope for is a protracted civil war that will ruin the cities and a loss of the very things that make California the success that it is (well except for the SoCal climate) Also, why would the US care what the world says? I think you are over estimating the World. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > All we have to do is vote in 2019. An uphill battle to be sure, but Calexit coming just as Brexit came. I think you are overestimating the will of the people of California, underestimating the will of the people as represented by the US Government, and severely misjudging what the rest of the world would do. You are also dismissing some key factors in the financial success of the state of California as being unimportant and immaterial. OH! One other thing I forgot to mention earlier, how many businesses do you think will be willing to stay and continue operating in the People’s Republic of California until things are settled one way or the other? The economy there will take a hit sure as anything if the measure were to pass. ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/95 "2016-11-12T22:11:50Z")
to late for the edit window, the comparison to Brexit is meaningless. Britain is a sovereign nation with quite a bit of history as such, California is not. Britain chose to withdraw from a confederation of sovereign nations and did not break away from a nation. The political, economic and cultural ties were much looser for Britain. Britain was not created as a political subdivision of the EU as California was of the US. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/96 "2016-11-12T22:44:16Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > No one is advocating any means other than peaceful in this. Period. > > If the US were to resort to military means to retain California the World would have a field day condemning the US. > > Once California is independent and a member of the UN, what is the US to do? > > All we have to do is vote in 2019. An uphill battle to be sure, but Calexit coming just as Brexit came. > [@dtilque](#): > > Just taking the Trident submarine base at Bangor WA would make it a superpower. That was, I believe, part of the backstory in [Ecotopia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecotopia), but that book had little relationship to reality. Just like this thread. You guys are so funny when you are stoned out of your minds and saying what if So **Morgenstern** you are just going to vote to take over (good idea since all you will have is hashtag warriors armed with dildos and bongs. ) Tell me have you discussed this strategy with **dtilque** he seems to have a slightly different take on the process. If you are going to take over the navy base your warriors need something to rouse their spirits. Lucky for you I wasn’t busy today. May I present the Ballad of the Hashtag Beret. Tweeting hashtags from the sky Fearful Hipsters who tweet and cry Hipsters who tweet just what they say The brave hipsters of the Hashtag Beret Well trimmed beards upon their chest Their hair in a bun California’s best One hundred hipsters will tweet today But only three win the Hashtag Beret Trained to tweet from Starbuck’s land Trained in lattes, hand-to-hand Hipsters who tweet by night and day Crying to mommy the Hashtag Berets Well trimmed beards upon their chest Their hair in a bun California’s best One hundred hipsters will tweet today But only three win the Hashtag Beret Back at home his mommy waits Her Hashtag Beret has met his fate He has died by becoming unhip Leaving her his last request Put a well tinned beard on someone else’ chest His hair in a bun California’s best He’ll be a hipster they’ll test one day Have him win the Hashtag Beret. With apologies to SSgt Barry Sadler ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/97 "2016-11-12T22:44:22Z")
On the bright side, if California did successfully secede, [we wouldn’t need to change the flag.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_California) ---
**Author:** ![akennett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee59a6/32.png) [@akennett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akennett)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/98 "2016-11-12T23:15:06Z")
> [@Dahnlor](#): > > First, we need to take Oregon and Washington with us. As an Oregonian, I will take up arms against this. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/99 "2016-11-12T23:25:00Z")
A couple of thoughts from when Texas floated the issue: > [@Why are some right wing leaders and spokespeople toying with the idea of civil war?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/41): > > Surely you realize there is a pretty significant qualitative difference between “We don’t like the direction the country is heading so we’re moving to a country more in line with our ideals” and “We don’t like the direction the country is heading so we’re mentioning/advocating/dreaming about seceding from the Union”? > [@Why are some right wing leaders and spokespeople toying with the idea of civil war?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/14): > > Isn’t calling for secession akin to treason? > [@Why the US opposition to the idea of secession?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-us-opposition-to-the-idea-of-secession/651509/5): > > “Self-determination” does not necessarily confer to right to split up any political entity. There’s a lot of problems with secession; > > 1. Unopposed secession would inevitably lead to the breakdown of more or less every federal state that allowed it. The instant one state/province/territory wants out, they’ll vote to leave, and then someone else will want out too. The USA had many secessionist movements BEFORE the Civil War, in fact; at one point New England states wanted out. > > 2. Secession never ends. Indeed, West Virginia seceded from Virginia because Virginia seceded. If Quebec secedes from Canada, can northern Quebec or west Montreal secede from Quebec? If not, why not? The populations there would be voting against secession, not for it, so why should the line of secession be drawn at the existing border? You’d have a huge, geographically concentrated contingent of people whose rights as Canadian citizens would be lost against their will. Or if you do redraw the border - well, how’d that work out for the Irish counties that voted to stay in the UK? > > 3. A sovereign nation cannot work if anyone can opt out when they get pissed off. It just can’t; that’s not how democracy works. Allowing secession every time 50.1% of the population of a region doesn’t like it will make effective governance impossible, because you cannot successfully run a country larger than yourself in a way that makes everyone happy all the time. > > Self determination doesn’t mean you get to redraw the map. It means **you get to have a say.** > [@Why not let Texas secede?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/4): > > States can’t secede. We had a minor skirmish over that some time ago. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/100 "2016-11-13T00:26:26Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > California’s National Guard is the largest in the country, and Guardsmen swear an oath of loyalty to the state (govenor?). It’s a dual oath based on their dual status. as both state and federal troops The oath of Office for National Guard officers with my bolding: > [@](#): > > I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that **I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State** (Commonwealth, District, Territory) of \_\_\_ against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that **I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the Governor of the State** (Commonwealth, District, Territory) of \_\_\_, that I make this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion, and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the Office of [grade] in the Army/Air National Guard of the State (Commonwealth, District, Territory) of \_\_\_ on which I am about to enter, so help me God. > [@](#): > > The US military as been relying heavily on the Guard and Reserve lately so I’m sure they’re quite well trained and equipped. The equipment is overwhelmingly federally owned on loan to the state. State’s only buy things that they need for specific state only missions like say batons and CS dispersers for crowd and riot control. Every weapon, vehicle, plane, tool box, etc is is on the way out of the state at secession unless CA uses force to seize US military equipment (not a good idea) or offers something big in exchange to buy it. Uniforms for enlisted Guardsmen are also issued and signed for, not provided by an allowance to purchase uniforms like on active duty. They have to be turned back in when the Soldier leaves the Guard. Items issued that can’t be reused, like underwear and socks aren’t usually turned back in…but they can be required to be. I’ve done that myself as a Company Commander by directing my supply sergeant to charge a troop for every last smelly sock when he was getting kicked out for AWOL. Expect the CA enlisted folks to lose every bit of their uniforms. The officers will still looks spiffy though; they buy theirs. Those drill weekends and two weeks a year, required to sustain training levels…paid for with federal funds. All the ammunition, spare parts, fuel and food allowances for training …gone with federal money. The courses to train new personnel and develop leaders for greater responsibility…paid for with federal funds and mostly conducted at federal installations. Major armory and training site construction costs…again federal funds. The full time Active Guard support personnel pay and allowances… gone. CA would be cut off from getting additional training equipment through the Training Support Centers. A minor victory in the minds of some of their Soldiers, they wouldn’t be able to access the systems the Army uses to provide routine annual training. They’d lose access to some doctrinal manuals while not technically classified, are not approved for foreign distribution. Some of the non-military security functions may fall onto the state military resources as well. The California Naval Militia would have a much bigger mission without the Coast Guard. Somebody would have to replace the federal personnel that assist with wild fire (a mission that the Guard is sometimes called on to assist with.) The internal mission for California’s current military, both Guard and State Military Reserve, likely increases in the interim period until suitable civilian parallels can be built. It’s important to remember that the force turns over pretty quickly too. Most of the current junior enlisted troops will not have a deployment (with the extra training and experience that goes along with it. Of course there are probably some who are junior enlisted who’ve been in longer. The reasons for that …umm let’s just say aren’t always badges to wear with honor. Effectively the California Guard becomes a naked , unequipped, force without the structure in place to sustain itself until the state government builds one. They become thoroughly incapable of performing their current state functions without big injections of cash early after secession. To make matters worse, they likely become more needed in the interim as they get used to cover for lost federal civilian support structures. It’s more a recent veterans club than a military at that point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467.md?page=6)