# I joined, and pledged support to Yes California today. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 11, 2016, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467 "2016-11-11T04:44:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/101 "2016-11-13T00:41:01Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > You guys are so funny when you are stoned out of your minds and saying what if > > … Funny you said that. The Huff Post said California’s weed industry is a 31 billion dollar a year industry. Much of that is exported from California to those states that don’t have the favorable growing conditions. Don’t be so quick to call California “stoned.” Of course, CA legalized recreational weed along with (3 or 4) other states this election. California was I believe the first state to legalize medical marijuana too. Back in the mid 90s IIRC. Shit starts in CA, and in no time at all, you’ll all be sporing the pony tail and shit faced grins as sip your imported (Napa Valley) wine. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/102 "2016-11-13T00:43:23Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > No, thank you. I rather like being a US citizen, regardless of the name of the person who lives at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. I really doubt anyone would lose their current citizenship. But it might be an issue for new children born after the separation. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/103 "2016-11-13T00:49:34Z")
I think the process, if it ever even happened, would be slow while both sides adjust. I was stationed in Monterey CA for years off and on, and the Ft. Ord closing seemed to take forever and the last time I was there they still had the PX & Commissary and various other things still up and running. The US has thousands of military and federal employees working all over the world and rarely does anyone demand they all close up shop and move overnight. Another example might be drawdowns and base closing in other countries. Lots of bases closed in Germany, and that took a long time. Okinawa Japan might be another example. I’m no expert on the subject, but I think Okinawa wanted bases closed but it’s taking awhile. Ukraine and Russia might be another example. They had to divvy up a lot of military bases and equipment too. In my head, I imagine the process would be long and drawn out, possibly more so than Brexit, with both sides acting amicably. I’m not imagining a civil war era war of the colonies. Anyway, the civil war was over slavery which to my mind is good guys vs. bad guys. Texas wanting to secede seemed to be also about the US becoming too liberal and progressive. California seceding is the exact opposite. The US is regressing, and CA is sick of being left out of the decision making process while funding the regression. I’d say in very oversimplified terms, California is the north, and the US is becoming the south. (it’s not really quite that bad of course) ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/104 "2016-11-13T00:52:01Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Once California is independent and a member of the UN, what is the US to do? From the UN on [the process](http://www.un.org/en/sections/member-states/about-un-membership/index.html)to become recognized as a member (edited to add the HTML number bullets back in and add emphasis): > [@](#): > > The procedure is briefly as follows: > > 1 The State submits an application to the Secretary-General and a letter formally stating that it accepts the obligations under the Charter. > **2 The Security Council considers the application. Any recommendation for admission must receive the affirmative votes of 9 of the 15 members of the Council, provided that none of its five permanent members — China, France, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America — have voted against the application.** > 3 If the Council recommends admission, the recommendation is presented to the General Assembly for consideration. A two-thirds majority vote is necessary in the Assembly for admission of a new State. > 4 Membership becomes effective the date the resolution for admission is adopted. So why do you think you have any chance of getting recognized by the UN in a timely fashion? They UN can’t accept you as a member unless the United States allows it. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/105 "2016-11-13T11:20:43Z")
This seems just like my fellow Scots who want to secede just because there’s a Tory government in Westminster, not realising that there will eventually be a Tory (or the equivalent thereof) government in Holyrood. ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/106 "2016-11-13T14:58:43Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I think the process, if it ever even happened, would be slow while both sides adjust. I was stationed in Monterey CA for years off and on, and the Ft. Ord closing seemed to take forever and the last time I was there they still had the PX & Commissary and various other things still up and running. The US has thousands of military and federal employees working all over the world and rarely does anyone demand they all close up shop and move overnight. Another example might be drawdowns and base closing in other countries. Lots of bases closed in Germany, and that took a long time. Okinawa Japan might be another example. I’m no expert on the subject, but I think Okinawa wanted bases closed but it’s taking awhile. Ukraine and Russia might be another example. They had to divvy up a lot of military bases and equipment too. > > In my head, I imagine the process would be long and drawn out, possibly more so than Brexit, with both sides acting amicably. I’m not imagining a civil war era war of the colonies. > > Anyway, the civil war was over slavery which to my mind is good guys vs. bad guys. Texas wanting to secede seemed to be also about the US becoming too liberal and progressive. California seceding is the exact opposite. The US is regressing, and CA is sick of being left out of the decision making process while funding the regression. I’d say in very oversimplified terms, California is the north, and the US is becoming the south. (it’s not really quite that bad of course) The problem is that you are comparing grapes to gravel. The two things may have a few characteristics in common but are vastly different things. California would _not_ be allowed to secede. The moment the vote is taken and the measure passed, California is part of the US in open rebellion against the rest of the country the first time anything is tried to actually enforce the measure. You are thinking that the US Government is going to basically say “Oh well” and let it go. That will not happen. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/107 "2016-11-13T17:34:47Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Maybe, maybe not. But CA is typically a left leaning republic as it stands. 60/40. That’s all it will take. It’s not about having your cake and eating it too. We’re paying for way more cake than we’re eating here. We just want to keep California cake in California. Wow. I think every net taxpayer would like to keep more of their “cake” as well. Funny how that gets them labeled as greedy and hateful. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/108 "2016-11-13T17:36:43Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Why should people in Santa Barbara have to subject themselves to… however many members of the CA legislature don’t represent Santa Barbara? You won’t ever get an answer for that for it would highlight not just the stupidity but intellectual dishonesty inherent in the idea. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/109 "2016-11-13T17:39:48Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > California’s National Guard is the largest in the country, and Guardsmen swear an oath of loyalty to the state (govenor?). The US military as been relying heavily on the Guard and Reserve lately so I’m sure they’re quite well trained and equipped. > > The president could tell them they are now under his command, and I guess they’d have to choose. But yes, California has quite a military, actually. Lol. I’d like to see that skirmish actually. California National Guard vs 101st airborne, the 3rd armored and the 7th fleet. Air Force could sit it out. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/110 "2016-11-13T22:29:08Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > So why do you think you have any chance of getting recognized by the UN in a timely fashion? They UN can’t accept you as a member unless the United States allows it. Because he has absolutely no idea what he’s talking about, nor even an elementary understanding of politics or economics. But hey, bragging about treason makes him feel better. At least he’s not out blocking traffic or something. ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/111 "2016-11-13T22:31:39Z")
**octopus** I would expect to see 11th ACR myself, along with a little help from 1/221st ACS, the 41st BCT, 285th AVR and 1/158th Inf and perhaps 116th ACB ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/112 "2016-11-13T23:22:02Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Because he has absolutely no idea what he’s talking about, nor even an elementary understanding of politics or economics. But hey, bragging about treason makes him feel better. At least he’s not out blocking traffic or something. Here’s a little hint for you. Let’s start with a definition you seem to be missing. _Treason. the crime of betraying one’s country, especially by attempting to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government._ Now, using that definition, apply it to the facts and your claim. Pay particular attention to the “kill” or “overthrow” part. Now, simply show where anyone is trying to “kill” or “overthrow” with respect to leaving the union. I suspect I’ll be waiting quite a while here. Your treason comment sounds like something Sarah Palin would mutter. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/113 "2016-11-14T00:08:01Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Here’s a little hint for you. > > Let’s start with a definition you seem to be missing. > > _Treason. > the crime of betraying one’s country, especially by attempting to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government._ > > Now, using that definition, apply it to the facts and your claim. Pay particular attention to the “kill” or “overthrow” part. > > Now, simply show where anyone is trying to “kill” or “overthrow” with respect to leaving the union. I suspect I’ll be waiting quite a while here. > > Your treason comment sounds like something Sarah Palin would mutter. Notice the word “especially.” You do know that especially doesn’t mean exclusively? ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/114 "2016-11-14T01:47:34Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > We won’t lose our US citizenship. We will have dual citizenship as we live in the Republic of California. We will continue using the US dollar unless and until we vote on vote on creating a new currency. California is currently a donor state, paying more to the Federal government than it receives each year. > [@Rigamarole](#): > > I really doubt anyone would lose their current citizenship. But it might be an issue for new children born after the separation. So…how exactly is that supposed to work? The state of California is going to secede, and the USA is going to allow the people in it to remain citizens? Why in the world would they do that? Of course, it’s a moot point, because it’s never, ever going to happen… ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/115 "2016-11-14T02:29:36Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Because he has absolutely no idea what he’s talking about, nor even an elementary understanding of politics or economics. But hey, bragging about treason makes him feel better. At least he’s not out blocking traffic or something. Also the claims for the greatness of California’s economy (and it is a great economy) have thoroughly ignored many if not most of the things that allowed California’s economy to grow. I suspect that if one were to dig a bit deeper it would turn out that California isn’t really as much of a true overall contributor as it seems on the quick look. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/116 "2016-11-14T07:12:31Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > So…how exactly is that supposed to work? The state of California is going to secede, and the USA is going to allow the people in it to remain citizens? Why in the world would they do that? Arguably, anyone who was born in what was part of the United States _at the time they were born_ would remain a US citizen by virtue of the 14th Amendment. And their post-secession California-born children would have the same entitlement to US citizenship as the children of US citizens born anywhere else in the world do now. But the idea that future Californians without that kind of link to the US would automatically have dual citizenship seems unlikely to me. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/117 "2016-11-14T08:00:47Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > So…how exactly is that supposed to work? The state of California is going to secede, and the USA is going to allow the people in it to remain citizens? Why in the world would they do that? Wouldn’t they necessarily be citizens by virtue of being born the USA? I think the US would have to amend the Constitution to deny them citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/118 "2016-11-14T13:41:59Z")
If California undertakes to secede without armed conflict, there’ll have to be negotiation. This must certainly include compensation for federal assets that RofCA wants to take with it. CA has more National Parks, Monuments, Historic Places, etc. than any other state. There are many thousands of square miles of National Forests. All these should command fine prices. I think Yosemite National Park alone should not go for less than, say, $160 billion - ten times that annual tax amount. Otherwise, break out the bongs and dildos. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/119 "2016-11-14T13:53:50Z")
Isn’t witnessing supposed to be in GD? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/120 "2016-11-14T13:59:23Z")
California can’t legally secede without congressional approval, and Congress isn’t going to approve. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467.md?page=7)