# I joined, and pledged support to Yes California today. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 11, 2016, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467 "2016-11-11T04:44:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 1\ **Showing post:** 99
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467/99 "2016-11-12T23:25:00Z")
A couple of thoughts from when Texas floated the issue: > [@Why are some right wing leaders and spokespeople toying with the idea of civil war?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/41): > > Surely you realize there is a pretty significant qualitative difference between “We don’t like the direction the country is heading so we’re moving to a country more in line with our ideals” and “We don’t like the direction the country is heading so we’re mentioning/advocating/dreaming about seceding from the Union”? > [@Why are some right wing leaders and spokespeople toying with the idea of civil war?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-some-right-wing-leaders-and-spokespeople-toying-with-the-idea-of-civil-war/493381/14): > > Isn’t calling for secession akin to treason? > [@Why the US opposition to the idea of secession?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-us-opposition-to-the-idea-of-secession/651509/5): > > “Self-determination” does not necessarily confer to right to split up any political entity. There’s a lot of problems with secession; > > 1. Unopposed secession would inevitably lead to the breakdown of more or less every federal state that allowed it. The instant one state/province/territory wants out, they’ll vote to leave, and then someone else will want out too. The USA had many secessionist movements BEFORE the Civil War, in fact; at one point New England states wanted out. > > 2. Secession never ends. Indeed, West Virginia seceded from Virginia because Virginia seceded. If Quebec secedes from Canada, can northern Quebec or west Montreal secede from Quebec? If not, why not? The populations there would be voting against secession, not for it, so why should the line of secession be drawn at the existing border? You’d have a huge, geographically concentrated contingent of people whose rights as Canadian citizens would be lost against their will. Or if you do redraw the border - well, how’d that work out for the Irish counties that voted to stay in the UK? > > 3. A sovereign nation cannot work if anyone can opt out when they get pissed off. It just can’t; that’s not how democracy works. Allowing secession every time 50.1% of the population of a region doesn’t like it will make effective governance impossible, because you cannot successfully run a country larger than yourself in a way that makes everyone happy all the time. > > Self determination doesn’t mean you get to redraw the map. It means **you get to have a say.** > [@Why not let Texas secede?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-let-texas-secede/671264/4): > > States can’t secede. We had a minor skirmish over that some time ago. --- _[View the full topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-joined-and-pledged-support-to-yes-california-today/771467)._