# I just discovered the Firefly series, it's a gorram shiny show for sure! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 21, 2008, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-discovered-the-firefly-series-its-a-gorram-shiny-show-for-sure/457210 "2008-07-21T00:53:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![brujaja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@brujaja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brujaja)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2008, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-discovered-the-firefly-series-its-a-gorram-shiny-show-for-sure/457210/81 "2008-07-24T11:23:08Z")
**What Exit?** , I never knew you were a Sonny Rhodes fan! Me too! He used to play all the time at Eli’s Mile High Club here in Oakland – until some gorram NIMBY asshat (and by “asshat”, I mean “asshole”) bought the house next door, knowing it was next door to a famous blues club of long-standing; then suddenly had a problem with it & had it closed down. He sold the house a short time later. When I say grumpy things about (real estate) Speculators, that’s one of the main reasons why. Anyhow, the thing I love best about Sonny is the turban. I love turbans even more than fezzes! (fezzi?) You want to watch yourself around his woman, though. She takes good care of him, but my God! She is formidable. One night, I was so moved by Sonny’s performance that I wanted to buy him a drink. Being kind of hypersensitive about being respectful of others’ SOs, I did what seemed like the proper way to do it, and asked his woman if I could buy him a drink. She said no, he doesn’t drink anymore, but you can buy one for me. Well, I knew all the people that worked there; I lived around the corner, I love blues, & I was there all the time. And this was a place where a glass of wine (all I ever drink) cost $2. But they had just hired a new bartender who didn’t know me, and damned if that woman didn’t order some kind of cognac, as it happened the most expensive thing they sold. I had to run around the corner & borrow another $5 from my roommates to cover it. Quack. I love that song about going up on a hilltop to talk with the wind, and the wind says, “Sonny, it’s time to rise and shine.” In fact, that’s what he was singing that night. I miss Eli’s. It’s a hinky yuppie club now, on rare occasions. **sigh** ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2008, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-discovered-the-firefly-series-its-a-gorram-shiny-show-for-sure/457210/82 "2008-07-24T12:48:29Z")
[QUOTE=brujaja] **What Exit?** , I never knew you were a Sonny Rhodes fan! Me too! He used to play all the time at Eli’s Mile High Club here in Oakland – until some gorram NIMBY asshat (and by “asshat”, I mean “asshole”) bought the house next door, knowing it was next door to a famous blues club of long-standing; then suddenly had a problem with it & had it closed down. He sold the house a short time later. When I say grumpy things about (real estate) Speculators, that’s one of the main reasons why. Anyhow, the thing I love best about Sonny is the turban. I love turbans even more than fezzes! (fezzi?) You want to watch yourself around his woman, though. She takes good care of him, but my God! She is formidable. One night, I was so moved by Sonny’s performance that I wanted to buy him a drink. Being kind of hypersensitive about being respectful of others’ SOs, I did what seemed like the proper way to do it, and asked his woman if I could buy him a drink. She said no, he doesn’t drink anymore, but you can buy one for me. Well, I knew all the people that worked there; I lived around the corner, I love blues, & I was there all the time. And this was a place where a glass of wine (all I ever drink) cost $2. But they had just hired a new bartender who didn’t know me, and damned if that woman didn’t order some kind of cognac, as it happened the most expensive thing they sold. I had to run around the corner & borrow another $5 from my roommates to cover it. Quack. I love that song about going up on a hilltop to talk with the wind, and the wind says, “Sonny, it’s time to rise and shine.” In fact, that’s what he was singing that night. I miss Eli’s. It’s a hinky yuppie club now, on rare occasions. **sigh** [/QUOTE] I am jealous, I only got to see him live about 4 times. I haven’t seen him in about 11 years now. (My going to small venue music clubs greatly diminished when we had our first child.) As part of the volunteer staff for the local Jazz & Blues festival, I got to be his stage hand twice and thus listen to his performance from just off stage one of the times and sitting on an open staircase about 5’ from him for another. The others times I saw him, he was just playing the old Jersey Blues circuit that seems to be gone now. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2008, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-discovered-the-firefly-series-its-a-gorram-shiny-show-for-sure/457210/83 "2008-07-24T16:26:52Z")
All right, I’ll agree that Jayne isn’t supposed to be a completely detestable douchebag. But he’s definately supposed to be several degrees more douchebaggy than the countless “douchebags with hearts of gold” we see on every other show. Just look at “Ariel”. Jayne’s capable of things that would make those other loveable rogues turn pale. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2008, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-discovered-the-firefly-series-its-a-gorram-shiny-show-for-sure/457210/84 "2008-07-24T17:35:20Z")
I got it backwards. I saw the movie _Serenity_ and liked it, pretty much, but have never seen any of the series _Firefly_. I want to, though. One of these days! ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2008, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-discovered-the-firefly-series-its-a-gorram-shiny-show-for-sure/457210/85 "2008-07-24T22:47:43Z")
I finally gave in and watched the series and film just a month ago. I’m wary of shows that inspire such rabid fans. Still keeping away from Buffy and friends, I need no more addictions. I can’t believe I’m the first in this thread to mention this, but ya’ll need to find a copy of Heinlein’s **Time Enough For Love** , and just skip ahead to _The Tale of The Adopted Daughter_. Maybe that’s why I got the whole western/future thing so easily that a lot of you seem hung up on 😉 If I ever move somewhere I need to wear a coat all the time, it will most likely be a nice brown one. I’m now working on a paper [model](http://www.chihuahuadepapel.com/index.htm) (scroll down), in fact. Total conversion is scary. Next I’ll be hanging out at airports getting into arguments with Hubbardites, right? ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-discovered-the-firefly-series-its-a-gorram-shiny-show-for-sure/457210/86 "2008-07-25T06:24:02Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] I got it backwards. I saw the movie _Serenity_ and liked it, pretty much, but have never seen any of the series _Firefly_. I want to, though. One of these days! [/QUOTE] I had managed to not see anything of Whedon’s work, except _Toy Story_, until I saw _Serenity_ – not even Buffy. I had heard of the series and thought I might like it, but it was there and gone before I had a chance to draw a bead on it. _Firefly_ was working its way up my Netflix queue when I saw the movie. It resonated so strongly with me, I bumped the series up to the top of the queue when I got home that evening. Then the next morning I scratched it from the queue all together, and bought the series boxset on the way home from work. Knowing “that’s all there is” I tried to parcel them out, one per night, but succumbed to temptation a couple evenings and got a double dose. Yeah, I like the 'verse. ---
**Author:** ![Sleel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/73ab20/32.png) [@Sleel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleel)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-discovered-the-firefly-series-its-a-gorram-shiny-show-for-sure/457210/87 "2008-07-25T06:36:58Z")
Regarding the Companion/whore dichotomy, it is shown that there’s definitely a divide between the upper class Core worlds, and lower class frontier planets. The upper class has a lot more Chinese influence, while the lower class is presented as a lot more frontier American west, with all the stick-up-the-_pigu_ Protestantism that implies. You’ll notice that it’s mostly the lower class men like Mal who equate Companion with whore. Wing in [Shindig](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shindig_(Firefly)) calls Inara a whore because both an insult toward women in general (what non-prostitute woman would _not_ be upset by being called a whore?) and because it is specifically insulting of her profession and standing. He’s trying to assert a higher social position and more of a power differential than he controls, as it turns out. In cultures where both highly regarded courtesans and lower-class whores were present, the higher position jealously guarded its privileges, and often had to deal with misapprehensions of what services they actually offered. The difference between [_oiran_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oiran) and [_geisha_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geisha), for example, was pretty darn big. Calling either _oiran_ or _geisha_ nothing more than common whores would be very insulting. While Whedon used Asian trappings, possibly to make the Companions more acceptable to a Western audience, there are actually more parallels with European traditions than with Asian. To me, Companions seem to be Renaissance [courtesans](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtesan) in light disguise. Then again, there has always been some tradition of prostitution in just about every culture in history, and it has often been linked with both entertainment and the upper-class or nobility, so you could probably find commonalities between most major traditions if you looked hard enough. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-discovered-the-firefly-series-its-a-gorram-shiny-show-for-sure/457210/88 "2008-07-25T06:56:42Z")
> [@Darth Nader](#): > > I can’t believe I’m the first in this thread to mention this, but ya’ll need to find a copy of Heinlein’s Time Enough For Love, and just skip ahead to The Tale of The Adopted Daughter. Ahem… Look up a few messages from yours. I mentioned not only “Time Enough For Love”, but a much earlier Heinlein novel in which high tech mixed with wagons and frontier people - “Tunnel In The Sky”. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-discovered-the-firefly-series-its-a-gorram-shiny-show-for-sure/457210/89 "2008-07-25T13:28:56Z")
:smack: ---
**Author:** ![wayward](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a87d85/32.png) [@wayward](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wayward)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-discovered-the-firefly-series-its-a-gorram-shiny-show-for-sure/457210/90 "2008-07-25T13:59:12Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] The thing is, Firefly does go out of its way to work gravity control into the show. [/QUOTE] "Why would you do that? I mean I can see how, but… _why?_ ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-discovered-the-firefly-series-its-a-gorram-shiny-show-for-sure/457210/91 "2008-07-25T15:01:00Z")
Well, I finished watching the series last night… I want MORE, Gorram it!, damn you Box…err…Fox network for killing another classic science fiction show before it’s time, the Firefly 'Verse had so much potential Firefly goes on my shortlist of Great Sci-Fi shows; (in no particular order) MST3K Farscape Firefly Futurama BSG Trek seems so cold, sanitary, mundane and mediocre compared to 'Fly, 'Scape and BSG Plus, it has a great number of [quotables](http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Firefly) as well; some of my favorites; [Dobson is tied up in his room] Mal: I got to know how close the Alliance is, exactly how much you told them 'fore Wash scrambled your call. So I’ve given Jayne here the job of finding out. Jayne: [draws a huge knife] He was nonspecific as to how. … Mal: [to Jayne] Now, you’ve only got to scare him. Jayne: Pain is scary. Jayne (over radio): Cap’n, cap’n, can you hear me? Mal: I’m standing right here. Jayne: You’re coming through loud and clear. Mal: 'Cause I’m standing right here. Mal: If I’m your mission, Shepherd, best give it up. You’re welcome on my boat - God ain’t. [A tied-up Crow is made to kneel outside Serenity as it prepares to lift off] Mal: Now this is all the money Niska gave us in advance. You give it back to him, tell him the job didn’t work out. We’re not thieves – well, we are thieves, but the point is we’re not taking what’s his. We’ll stay out of his way as best we can from here on in. You’ll explain that’s best for everyone, okay? Crow: [stands up] Keep the money. Use it to buy a funeral. It doesn’t matter where you go, or how far you fly – I will hunt you down, and the last thing you see will be my blade. Mal: Darn. [kicks Crow into Serenity’s engine intake] [Cut to another henchman being placed before Mal] Mal: Now this is all the money Niska gave us in advance– Henchman: Oh, I get it! I’m good. Best thing for everybody. [desperate grin] I’m right there with you. River: (suddenly speaking in Badger’s own Cockney accent) Sure. I got a secret. More’n one. Don’t seem like I’d tell ‘em to you, now, do it? Anyone off Dyton colony knows better’n to talk to strangers. (pokes Badger in the chest) You’re talkin’ loud enough for the both of us, ain’t ya? I’ve met a dozen like you. Skipped off home early. Minor graft jobs here and there. Spent some time in the lockdown, but less than you claim. And you’re what? A petty thief with delusions o’ standing? Sad little king of a sad little hill. Badger: (thinking River must know him from someplace else) Nice to see someone from the old homestead? River: Not really. (to Simon) call me if anyone interesting shows up. [Shepherd Book prepares a meal as he absentmindedly addresses River.] Book: What are we up to, sweetheart? River: Fixing your Bible. Book: I, um… What? [Pan over to River, who works on a book with pens, brushes, and loose pages.] River: Bible’s broken. Contradictions, false logistics… doesn’t make sense. Book: No, no. You - you can’t… River: So we’ll integrate non-progressional evolution theory with God’s creation of Eden. Eleven inherent metaphoric parallels already there. Eleven. Important number. Prime number. One goes into the house of eleven eleven times, but always comes out one. Noah’s ark is a problem. Book: Really? River: We’ll have to call it “early quantum state phenomenon”. Only way to fit 5,000 species of mammals on the same boat. . . . Book: River, you don’t… fix the Bible. River: It’s broken. It doesn’t make sense. Book: It’s not about… making sense. It’s about believing in something. And letting that belief be real enough to change your life. It’s about faith. You don’t fix faith, River. It fixes you. [River is hiding from Book, freaked out by his enormous unbundled mane of white hair.] Book: River? Please, why don’t you come on out? River: No! Can’t. Too much hair. Book: Is–is that it? Zoe: Hell, yes, preacher. If I didn’t have stuff to get done, I’d be in there with her. . . . Zoe: River, honey, he’s putting the hair away now. [Book starts to tie his hair back.] River: Doesn’t matter. It’ll still be there. Waiting. Jayne: Hey. Free soup. Zoe and Mal open a coffin-sized box to find a body. Jayne peers in.] Jayne: What’d y’all order a dead guy for? Wash: Little River gets more colorful by the moment. What’ll she do next? Zoe: Either blow us all up or rub soup in our hair. It’s a toss-up. Wash: I hope she does the soup thing, it’s always a hoot and we don’t all die from it. . . . ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-discovered-the-firefly-series-its-a-gorram-shiny-show-for-sure/457210/92 "2008-07-25T16:15:34Z")
**MacTech** - Your assignment for this weekend is to watch _Serenity_. StG ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-discovered-the-firefly-series-its-a-gorram-shiny-show-for-sure/457210/93 "2008-07-25T16:36:39Z")
There’s two comic miniseries… ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-discovered-the-firefly-series-its-a-gorram-shiny-show-for-sure/457210/94 "2008-07-25T17:08:52Z")
[QUOTE=StGermain] **MacTech** - Your assignment for this weekend is to watch _Serenity_. StG [/QUOTE] I watched it a while ago, just never got around to watching the series, so I too went about it barse-ackwards ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-discovered-the-firefly-series-its-a-gorram-shiny-show-for-sure/457210/95 "2008-07-25T23:51:37Z")
**MacTech** - You still need to see it this weekend. Seeing _Serenity_ after you’ve gotten the familiarity and affection to the _Firefly_ cast is a different thing. StG ---
**Author:** ![Invisible\_Chimp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f05b48/32.png) [@Invisible\_Chimp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Invisible_Chimp)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2008, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-discovered-the-firefly-series-its-a-gorram-shiny-show-for-sure/457210/96 "2008-07-26T04:33:02Z")
Whenever I hear about somebody just discovering the awesomeness that is Firefly now, it pisses me off. Had you discovered Firefly when it was on TV like I did and like you were supposed to, then we might have had more Firefly to watch. Enjoy. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2008, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-discovered-the-firefly-series-its-a-gorram-shiny-show-for-sure/457210/97 "2008-07-26T04:48:58Z")
[QUOTE=Ataraxy] Had you discovered Firefly when it was on TV like I did and like you were supposed to, then we might have had more Firefly to watch. [/QUOTE] No, no it’s my fault. I watched _Firefly_ from the beginning, as I did \*Space: Above and Beyond, Touching Evil, Thief, \* and the recovering _Enterprise._ G-d hates me, and everyone suffers. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2008, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-discovered-the-firefly-series-its-a-gorram-shiny-show-for-sure/457210/98 "2008-07-26T04:53:36Z")
[QUOTE=Lemur866] And it does this, how?.. [/QUOTE] How? Are you kidding? How does Scotty keep the Enterprise from blowing apart? How does Bones manage to lose just about every patient he touches, except senior crew, and still be the ship’s doctor? If you know HOW phaser or lasers could disintegrate a person and leave the wall intact, you’d build one, and that [knife with the CO2 cartridge](http://www.livenews.com.au/Articles/2008/07/24/Police_on_the_lookout_for_new_exploding_knife) would be yesterday’s news. And you’d be feelthy reech! ---
**Author:** ![brujaja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@brujaja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brujaja)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2008, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-discovered-the-firefly-series-its-a-gorram-shiny-show-for-sure/457210/99 "2008-07-26T08:32:29Z")
I just now finished watching _War Stories_. One episode left now, _The Message_. I must say, Wash looks freakin awesome in commando gear. Up to half an hour ago, that aspect of his character had gone entirely unnoticed. (by me.) Anyway, what an amazing script. All of them. I love the scene in, I think it’s Trash, when River observes a country dance, and then suddenly joins in. The music, the way she moves, it’s a beautiful moment. I love the part in _Heart of Gold_ where Jayne is instructing his, er… “fancy girl” friend about handing him the next biggest gun when he runs out of ammo. I love the scene of KayLee eating a strawberry. One thing I don’t get, though. At the end of _Objects In Space_, when Early says, “Here I am,” is he talking to his ship somehow? Did he escape dying there in space? Because it’s kind of unclear unless I missed something. ---
**Author:** ![Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Petrobey_Mavromihalis)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2008, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-discovered-the-firefly-series-its-a-gorram-shiny-show-for-sure/457210/100 "2008-07-26T09:02:39Z")
[QUOTE=brujaja] One thing I don’t get, though. At the end of _Objects In Space_, when Early says, “Here I am,” is he talking to his ship somehow? Did he escape dying there in space? Because it’s kind of unclear unless I missed something. [/QUOTE] No, I don’t think so, he’s just having an existential moment. The whole episode is about how objects exist as of themselves and how we give meaning to them (the gun / stick, the ship / River, the ball / planet etc.) By the end Early, who is obsessed by these physical objects (licking the ship, objectifying Kaylee as a tool) has become just one more ‘object in space’, very literally. So “Well, here I am”. That’s pretty much what I got from watching and it is expanded on in the episode commentary. But just because that’s the way I see it / it was intended, doesn’t mean you can’t have your own view. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-discovered-the-firefly-series-its-a-gorram-shiny-show-for-sure/457210.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-discovered-the-firefly-series-its-a-gorram-shiny-show-for-sure/457210.md?page=6)