I’m not sure what kind of analogy this is. You could get on a plane, fly across the world, and prove that China is, indeed, there. Not so with God.
But the bible runs afoul of things humans observe. The widely accepted theory of evolution, for example. Or that, as scientists probe into the matter, they’re realizing that there never really was a King David (if he did exist, he was nothing more than a local chieftan, they say) or any mass exodus of Jews from Egypt, etc, etc.
How?
I’m sick of their views being pushed on me. I really don’t appreciate shit like them pulling God, the Devil, and Bob off the air in several cities just because it doesn’t fit their beliefs. I don’t like my dollar saying “In God we trust” on the back of it. I don’t like people discriminating against homosexuals in the name of Christianity (even though I’m not one).
I never had a Buddhist come knocking on my door asking me to change my religion. No, not because there are more Christians in this country than Buddhists, but because the Christian religion ASKS people to go spread the word. That means that Christian missionaries get sent to the middle of the desert in Africa to try and change others’ beliefs. FUCK THAT! These people don’t have a damn thing to eat, but they sure have the word of Jesus to fill their distended stomaches!
“Honey we’re recovering Christians.”
–Tori Amos - In the Springtime of his Voodoo
I don’t think the Bible ever says that King David was anything more than a local chieftan. The Bible is basically the mythology and history of one rather small and insignificant group of people (at the time, anyway). They were rather focused on their own history, which is why David comes off looking as some really important guy, but in the scheme of things, he was no more important than any other tribal chieftan. He gets the notoriety, though, because he’s in the Bible.
On the Commandment on taking God’s name in vain: I am given to understand that the real essence of that mitzvah has been lost in translation, and that what it’s really saying is that you shouldn’t use God’s name for evil purposes. That is, don’t do bad stuff in the name of God. Pashley, are you paying attention?
As for the mitzvah to keep the Sabbath holy: this is a REALLY big deal in Jewish tradition. If you know any Orthodox Jews, ask if you can spend a Shabbas with them some time. What sounds restrictive - no turning lights on or off, no watching TV, no writing, no driving, no tearing paper - can make for a very peaceful and spiritual 25 hours. I know it sounds goofy if you’ve never done it, but this is not a minor thing. I’m not shomer shabbas (i.e., I don’t observe these rules) but even I love Shabbat. It’s my absolute favorite time of the week, and when I’m doing my daily grind at school, at work, whatever, I always look forward to Shabbat.
So, why religion? For me, it makes me happy. It gives me a place and time. It gives me context. I don’t think everyone needs it, though, and if you’re happy on your own terms, more power to you!
Then don’t. Or at least don’t insult him in the process. That’s what the Pit is for. And, frankly, I’m getting tired of chasing after you and others about insults in the last few days. If you don’t stop, things are going to start getting deleted.
See how it affects us? Because the “bunch of fools” want to force your religious beliefs on others. If creationists were content to just teach it in church and leave science alone, that would be one thing. But they aren’t. They lie about creationism being a theory when it is nothing but a religious belief.
Pretending something is scientific when it is solely religion, and wanting to teach that religion in school is not a freedom of expression issue. If we were trying to tell creationists that they couldn’t teach creationism in church or at home or on the street corner, that would be a free expression issue. But that’s not the case. It’s a separation of church and state issue when creationists try to get their religion taught in public schools.
It’s not just the Christians that go after the networks for showing offensive material. The gay rights groups go after Dr. Laura, for instance. If you were in a religion, and the media portrayed your deity as something it wasn’t, wouldn’t you be upset? If the newspaper did an article on you, and said you tend to not like to work with black people, wouldn’t you be upset? It’s obvious the Catholic religion gets bashed all the time in the media.
Not much we can do about the currency, you and I. Why does something like that bother you so much? And what’s this thing about Christianity discriminating against homosexuals? The Bible, our reference calls sin an abomination, but also asks us not to hate the person, but hate the sin.
Well, Jehovah’s Witness and Mormons are the kings of that, not Christians. I’ve never known a Christian to do door-to-door work. Yes, we are encouraged to share the word, when appropriate. Some of us like to witness, mildly, like having a pic of Jesus in their office cube, or more vocally, on a street corner. I had to sound liberal, but that is free speech.
Yes, missionaries go to poor countries to try to spread the word. See, we believe Jesus is a great hope, which these people need in their dire circumstances. You act like we go in their with RVs, eat a couple of turkey dinners, go lay down some oppressive religion, as they starve, and get out of there. Do you know how many Christian organizations go in there and set up schools and a place to eat? There are many.
Patrick Ashley
‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.’ -Edmund Burke
We are not asking that creationism be taught exculsively, we are asking that you let the students deceide for themselves. Personally, I feel evolution is harder to believe, even outside the context of religion. Too many things had to come together perfectly for mankind to come to be. It’s like a tornado swept thru Bob’s Auto Salvage, and out came a new Boeing 747.
And yes, evolution IS a theory, same as creationism. There is NO lineage, in terms of fossils that show the clear evolution from single cell animals to man. Ever heard of the missing link? There’s this big gap between evolved apes and us. If they found that missing link, I’d swing toward the evolution side. It is a theory, you can’t reproduce the results, like you can, say, measuring the speed of light.
Patrick Ashley
‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.’ -Edmund Burke
They can decide for themselves. They can decide whether to believe the religion they are taught in church and/or at home, or to accept the science they are taught in school.
My gosh, and all those scientists never thought to talk to you about it?! What the hell were they thinking?
Oh, goody. You can quote creationist rhetoric. Care to show that you actually understand the topic? Didn’t think so.
Right and wrong. Evolution is a theory and also fact. Creationism is pure religion.
Which one? C’mon, like I said, show you can do more than spout creationist bullshit rhetoric.
A little while ago, I set up a new thread for creationists to post their alleged evidence against evolution. Nothing. Zero. Zip. Nada. Since we have a couple new creationists around (you and CalifBoomer), I’ll do it again. See you there.
It is truly astounding how little you know as compared to how much you apparently think you know.
Man, you don’t even know what a theory is! Truly amazing.
You call yourself a moderator? You’ve got the meanest spirit I’ve seen on this board. Why don’t you take your know-it-all attitude and shove it up you ass?!
Ok, now that my moderator hat is off again, I don’t suppose you’re interested in answering my questions and address the points I made in a calm, rational manner?
No, not really Dave. There’s not arguing, never mind discussing, with you. Any confilicting opinion you summarily dismiss. And oh God, if someone introduces a shred of religion, you get all ticked off and start throwing stones. Grow up.
Patrick Ashley
‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.’ -Edmund Burke
A ways up there, I said something about Christians listening to science. As both a Xn and a scientist, I have no problem reconciling one to the other. Both are ways to reach the truth, but in completely different ways. Science gives us the how and religion gives us the why and there should never, ever be any crossing over. At least not in this enlightened Christian’s mind.
As for doubts about my faith, sure I have doubts. Everyone has doubts. Jesus had doubts. It’d be awfully cocky of me not to. It is part of the whole experience. I spent a few years without much religion, and I feel that those who choose to ignore or shun it are missing out on an essential part of being human.
The problem with religion is that it is practiced by imperfect humans.
It’s not how you pick your nose, it’s where you put the boogers
D’oh! At the risk of biting the hand of friendship, doesn’t this sound the least bit hypocritical to you, considering what you’ve said in the past about homosexuality?
Yikes! I grovel accordingly, but at the same time point out that at least Pashley and I are trying to make peace and debate civilly, and that aside from Orion, I haven’t flamed in a while (at least, I don’t think I have).
Hmmmm. Interesting. It seems you are taking your faults and pretending they exist in others, Mr. “that is self-evident.”
Again, we see you acting as though others have your faults. You are the one who threw stones. You got so “ticked off” that you posted several messages across several threads full of insults and attacks. But you won’t address the issues. And yet you have the nerve to tell somebody else to
As a fundamentalist Christian, I don’t post much on this board for the main reason that my opinions are not popular here, as most of the board members are more interested in facts and things that they can see and touch. Don’t misunderstand me. I’m not having a pity party about being “persecuted” on this message board. That is their choice, and I sincerely doubt I am going to win anybody over to my way of thinking through the medium of a message board.
As for the title of this topic, “I just don’t get it … (religion)” I can only say that, according to the Bible, you won’t be able to understand it if you are unsaved.
I Corinthians 2:14 “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”
I understand that quoting the Christian Bible to an atheist is not sufficient enough proof for him/her to be swayed. However, this is the only explanation that I can give you.
