# I just don't get it. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 30, 2003, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-get-it/185448 "2003-06-30T22:44:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-get-it/185448/161 "2003-07-02T13:33:30Z")
> [@](#): > > Yes, Gobear he is. As has been pointed out to you, that’s really a fact not subject to debate. It’s not a fact; it’s an opinion. IMO, an elder statesman plays a larger role than a mere politician; he shapes national policy with a global outlook. Churchill was an elder statesman, Nixon with all his faults was an elder statesman. Strom, like Clinton, was just a politician. Merely being old and being in politics does not make one a statesman. > [@](#): > > I don’t want to defend the guy, but you put in the uncomfortable position of coming close to being an apologist because of your insistence that this one horrible aspect of the man alone is his full measure. I didn’t say that was his full measure; the question is doe his other attributes outweigh that aspect. If one is a GOP member, one would have to say that they do because to the GOP being an able pork barrel legislator, which Strom was, is far more important than his attacks on a group of people the GOP finds pretty distasteful anyway. > [@](#): > > I have never demanded that you respected the man. And, what is not a gay issue is the fact that you and I are disagreeing whether it’s cool to shellack Strom before he’s even buried. It’s a gay issue because that’s _why_ he’s being shellacked. And just how long is this moratorium you impose anyway? Until his burial? Well, he’s in the ground now. I simply do not see why criticism that would have been acceptable one day is suddenly verboten just because the man stopped breathing. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-get-it/185448/162 "2003-07-02T13:44:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\*I really do try to call them like I see them. \*\* So do I. **Scylla** , you are an ass. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > **I have never demanded that you respected the man. And, what is not a gay issue is the fact that you and I are disagreeing whether it’s cool to shellack Strom before he’s even buried.** Gee. We have to wait for approval from **Scylla** , who decides who’s been dead long enough, and for approval from **DCH** who decides whether the deceased fits the **DCH** profile of bad guys. Any other caveats, anyone? Perhaps I should just repeat my opening statement from the other thread. Right wing fucking assholes. ---
**Author:** ![blanx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f04885/32.png) [@blanx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blanx)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-get-it/185448/163 "2003-07-02T13:56:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jayjay \* > \*\*Oh, my! I wonder if all the discomfort with the more flamboyant aspects of gay pride parades and such is no more than a simple misunderstanding. > > To the straight folks: Very few of the more outrageous expressions you see in the gay pride parades are intended seriously. Hell, gay pride parades aren’t really intended seriously (except in the most basic “Thank God for Stonewall and Liberation!” sense). Like **matt** said, they’re carnivals. They’re the highest camp. Like I said previously about gay humor, it’s often so sardonic that unless you’re clued in, you won’t get it. Drag is camp. Parade leather is camp. Cats-o-nine-tails are camp. Dykes on Bikes is camp. Lesbian Avengers are camp. It’s a giant self-critical laugh-in. > \*\* Ow. Learning makes my tiny brain hurt. Plus, bleeding from the ears is not attractive. Seriously- **jayjay** - as a straight guy, I never got it until just now. I get it now. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-get-it/185448/164 "2003-07-02T14:10:25Z")
Hell, I _did_ get it, all along, but that doesn’t mean that public displays of camp don’t make me feel oogy. I will say, though, that gay guys are the funnest–and funniest–people in the world. Fun makes me feel oogy, too, if you hadn’t figured that out. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-get-it/185448/165 "2003-07-02T14:24:09Z")
To give Thurmond such recognition as he deserves, irrespective of what respect may be due the recently dead: (1) Some Southerners during the civil rights struggle were motivated less by anti-Black bigotry than by a sincere commitment to defending the retained powers of states against Federal encroachment (misnomered "states’ rights), and while I don’t pretend to have a good read on Strom’s conscience, I formed the impression that that was his prime motivation; (2) he was very well-beloved among a cross-section of South Carolinians, not all of whom were unreconstructed rednecks moved by bigotry; (3) and most important to me, he was prepared right up to his final decline to learn and grow, as evidenced by his acceptance and support of Blacks in politics in his final years. Perhaps if he had lived to 120 he would have supported a gay marriage bill. In all seriousness, the OP and my _faux pas_ do serve to demonstrate that there is a problem to the generation of true acceptance of gay people as they are. Obviously there is no single right answer to the question, but how do you gay men and women propose to address it? ---
**Author:** ![blanx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f04885/32.png) [@blanx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blanx)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-get-it/185448/166 "2003-07-02T14:24:36Z")
Strangely, having the light tuned on took away the oogy. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-get-it/185448/167 "2003-07-02T14:27:48Z")
gobear: > [@](#): > > It’s not a fact; it’s an opinion. IMO, an elder statesman plays a larger role than a mere politician; he shapes national policy with a global outlook. Churchill was an elder statesman, Nixon with all his faults was an elder statesman. Strom, like Clinton, was just a politician. Merely being old and being in politics does not make one a statesman. Like it or not, Strom has played an important and active role in National politics and has shaped our country to a degree, and he was 100 years old. To me that makes him eld. YMMV. > [@](#): > > I didn’t say that was his full measure; the question is doe his other attributes outweigh that aspect Now that would be an excellent question. I don’t know. > [@](#): > > If one is a GOP member, one would have to say that they do because to the GOP being an able pork barrel legislator, which Strom was, is far more important than his attacks on a group of people the GOP finds pretty distasteful anyway. Well, whether or not they outweigh things is moot. The guy was there and he had to be dealt with. By dealing with him do we endorse his bigotry? I dunno. But, it’s not a problem that’s unique to the GOP. Dealing with personally distasteful people is a pretty common experience. The Democrats have Byrd to deal with, and quite a few who signed DOMA. I really don’t have a good suggestion for working with people you find distasteful or who have intolerable aspects. People can be the scum of the earth in some respects, and perfect angels in others. > [@](#): > > It’s a gay issue because that’s why he’s being shellacked. And just how long is this moratorium you impose anyway? Until his burial? Well, he’s in the ground now. I simply do not see why criticism that would have been acceptable one day is suddenly verboten just because the man stopped breathing. You can do it whenever you want to. I’m not telling you you can’t. I am disapointed to see you do it, though. It’s insensitive, and it makes you look bad, at least to my eyes. It’s not a gay issue, because I would feel the same pretty much regardless of who it was who died and who it was doing the gleeful cackling. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-get-it/185448/168 "2003-07-02T14:36:21Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s not a gay issue, because I would feel the same pretty much regardless of who it was who died and who it was doing the gleeful cackling. I don’t see how my comments can be interpreted as “gleeful cackling”; the worst thing I said was that I was happy rather than sad at the news of his death. The way you and others have been criticizing me, one would think that I had done a full-on cheer: _Strom’s DEAD! Boo-yah! Strom’s dead, it’s my birthday, hallelujah, Strom is dead, dead, dead, whoo-hoo!"_ Now if I had posted THAT, you might have had a point. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-get-it/185448/169 "2003-07-02T14:40:35Z")
> [@](#): > > (2) he was very well-beloved among a cross-section of South Carolinians, not all of whom were unreconstructed rednecks moved by bigotry Must…resist…burning…cross-section…joke! Resistance…fading… ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-get-it/185448/170 "2003-07-02T14:52:49Z")
gobear: > [@](#): > > I don’t see how my comments can be interpreted as “gleeful cackling”; the worst thing I said was that I was happy rather than sad at the news of his death. Ok then. I was in the thread for the gleeful cacklers, and then you and I got into it as to whether it was justified, based on his history, and the whole get a clue thing, so I’ve mentally lumped you in with the gleeful cacklers rather than as an apologist or defender of gleeful characters. Anyway, it’s hard to keep things straight with everybody telling me what a horrible person I am. I don’t mean that in the cross-climbing sense. I mean that literally. It makes it difficult to have a reasonable discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-get-it/185448/171 "2003-07-02T14:57:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Who\_me? \* > \*\*In my opinion, gay pride parades and festivals are not really to enhance acceptance of homosexuals, but for those same homosexuals to celebrate their feelings and the freedom of associating with others who feel the same way. But in saying that, they do not exclude anyone either. At a pride day celebration, everyone is made to feel welcome, which is another thing I haven’t experienced in very many places. \*\* By Jove, I think **Who\_Me?** gets it. Halloween is one of the biggest parties down in the Cedar Springs area in Dallas. What started as a party in the Gay area has grown to be one of the most popular events in town. The straights are almost as populous as the queers during the Halloween party. And they’re welcomed. (More than a few have taken a walk on the wild side thanks to the revelry, too.) I think the problem is the self-centeredness of straight culture. It’s so pervasive that most people seem to think everything is for their entertainment or edification. Guess what, not everything is about you. Pride festivals and parades aren’t about you. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-get-it/185448/172 "2003-07-02T15:01:50Z")
> [@](#): > > Anyway, it’s hard to keep things straight with everybody telling me what a horrible person I am. I don’t mean that in the cross-climbing sense. I mean that literally. It makes it difficult to have a reasonable discussion. **Scylla** , you are most emphatically NOT a horrible person. Irritating at times, yes, but then aren’t we all? You have a tendency to focus very narrowly on insignificant issues that blinds you to the larger picture, but that doesn’t make you horrible, just, you know, irritating at times. All in all, I think you’re a pretty decent guy. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-get-it/185448/173 "2003-07-02T15:09:39Z")
Speaking as a straight, white, middle-class male you are wrong. It **is** about me. It **is** for my entertainment and edification. I don’t know how you could have missed that. Now, go do your Judy Garland impression like a good trained dog. I’m bored. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-get-it/185448/174 "2003-07-02T15:10:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\*You can do it whenever you want to. I’m not telling you you can’t. > I am disapointed to see you do it, though. It’s insensitive, and it makes you look bad, at least to my eyes. > > It’s not a gay issue, because I would feel the same pretty much regardless of who it was who died and who it was doing the gleeful cackling. \*\* It’s a Scylla issue of him not getting his way and refusing to let the matter drop because like his wife, he’s just never satisfied. It’s not a straight repressed republican issue, because I would feel pretty much the same regardless of who was being demanding and doing it with faux politeness followed by vitriol when that failed. That we look bad to your eyes is akin to looking bad to Strom’s: if we’re doing it, we’ve been doing the right thing. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-get-it/185448/175 "2003-07-02T15:22:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\ ***Scylla** , you are most emphatically NOT a horrible person. Irritating at times, yes, but then aren’t we all? You have a tendency to focus very narrowly on insignificant issues that blinds you to the larger picture, but that doesn’t make you horrible, just, you know, irritating at times. All in all, I think you’re a pretty decent guy. \*\* Thanks for saying that. I needed to hear that. Your criticism is mostly on, but you’d be wrong to think I’m blind to the bigger picture. I see it as well as any, I think. Nor do I see the issues that I’ve focussed on as insignificant. Is displaying good taste and tact and consideration as important as basic human rights? Of course not. I would never imply otherwise. But I still think they’re important. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-get-it/185448/176 "2003-07-02T15:25:13Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s a Scylla issue of him not getting his way and refusing to let the matter drop because like his wife, he’s just never satisfied. Dude, bashing **Scylla** is one thing, he’s a big boy and can take care of himself, but bringing the wife into it is Just Not On. Please knock that shit off. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-get-it/185448/177 "2003-07-02T15:44:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mockingbird \* > \*\*It’s a Scylla issue of him not getting his way and refusing to let the matter drop because like his wife, he’s just never satisfied. That’s really nice. I’ll ask you again. What does your propensity towards ripping at others say about you? I think you take pleasure in hurting other people, and that you look for excuses to justify it, so you don’t have to recognize your propensity. “They deserve it,” or “they have it coming.” or “It’s good to shake them up.” But the truth is, I think you take pleasure in trying to hurt other people. I think it makes you feel good to do it. You do it so often with so many different people. You even recognize it on your website it, but you justify your targets as “deserving.” More often than not, your justification is very thin. I think it’s very obvious that you just like to try to hurt others, that you derive pleasure from attacking other people. You engage in mean cruel aggression for it’s own sake. Your stated justification is just the excuse. That’s some bad stuff you have going on there. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-get-it/185448/178 "2003-07-02T15:48:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*Dude, bashing **Scylla** is one thing, he’s a big boy and can take care of himself, but bringing the wife into it is Just Not On. Please knock that shit off. \*\* Thank you. But it really is ok. I really don’t care. I haven’t taken his bait so far, so he’s been escalating. That’s all. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-get-it/185448/179 "2003-07-02T15:49:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blanx \* > \*\*Strangely, having the light tuned on took away the oogy. \*\* That’s what we’ve been saying for years now. Education. Ask the right questions, or at least make it clear what about homosexuality bothers you, and you may get the answers you need to get over that bump. I love seeing a principle put into action. 😃 And **gobear** , classy, hon. _thumbs-up_ I’ve been waiting for one of you to depersonalize this trainwreck for days now. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-get-it/185448/180 "2003-07-02T16:00:13Z")
Expressing pity for Scylla’s wife is not bashing him. The way he can attempt to recast his bigotries as he does and the denial of the bloated sense of entitlement that they seem to stem from would have to make living with him hellish. I am quite tired of him joining with his Republican Hall of “Justice” and bringing down the house on those who offend his poor straight white male sensibilities. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-get-it/185448.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-get-it/185448.md?page=10)