# I just don't understand the double standard Muslims put on the West. Any theories or explanations? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 7, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-understand-the-double-standard-muslims-put-on-the-west-any-theories-or-explanations/692555 "2014-07-07T17:53:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-understand-the-double-standard-muslims-put-on-the-west-any-theories-or-explanations/692555/21 "2014-07-07T19:31:25Z")
If the shoe fits. 😃 They’ve sat on their ass watching the emergence of Radical Islam for the past twenty-five years. This is no different than the fools that sat on their asses watching the Sturmabteilung (Brown Shirts) and the Schutzstaffel (SS) organize and gain power in Germany. People have a moral and ethical responsibility to stand up to tyrants and oppressors. When they don’t those groups just get bigger and bigger. More and more powerful. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yes you are. In the OP, you said “Anything the West does to offend Muslims results in them going ape shit. Protests, stuff set on fire, fatwas that send innocent people into hiding.” That’s generalizing about Muslims – you’re saying that Muslims (e.g. the billion-or-so humans who adhere to the religion called Islam) go “ape shit”, set stuff on fire, issue fatwas that send innocents into hiding, etc. > > Just like “anything white people do to offend black people results in them going ape shit” would be generalizing about black people, or “anything gentiles do to offend Jews results in them going ape shit” would be generalizing about Jews. > > Of course you were generalizing! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-understand-the-double-standard-muslims-put-on-the-west-any-theories-or-explanations/692555/22 "2014-07-07T19:32:33Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > If the shoe fits. 😃 They’ve sat on their ass watching the emergence of Radical Islam for the past twenty-five years. > > This is no different than the fools that sat on their asses watching the Sturmabteilung (Brown Shirts) and the Schutzstaffel (SS) organize and gain power in Germany. People have a moral and ethical responsibility to stand up to tyrants and oppressors. When they don’t those groups just get bigger and bigger. More and more powerful. So now you’re admitting that you generalized about a billion people? I am having serious trouble following what you’re trying to say, unless it’s just some variation on “Muslims are bad”. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-understand-the-double-standard-muslims-put-on-the-west-any-theories-or-explanations/692555/23 "2014-07-07T19:37:33Z")
You can’t grasp the concept that those billion people follow the teachings of one person? The Prophet Muhammad? Just like Christians follow the teaching of our Savior Jesus Christ? There are major differences from region to region. Country to country. The Methodists, Baptists, Church of Christ, Catholic, Church of England, Lutherans, and no telling how many other Christian churches. We have our differences (some pretty big) but we are all united through Christ and the tenets of the Bible. If you see a religion that you follow and care about perverted and twisted into hate. Don’t you as an individual have a responsibility to speak up? Doesn’t your local church or Mosque have that same responsibility? There are differences within any religion but there are also core common values too. There are times an entire group has to stand up and oppose hatred and violence. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-understand-the-double-standard-muslims-put-on-the-west-any-theories-or-explanations/692555/24 "2014-07-07T19:39:20Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > If the shoe fits. 😃 They’ve sat on their ass watching the emergence of Radical Islam for the past twenty-five years. Holy shit. Read some history, please. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-understand-the-double-standard-muslims-put-on-the-west-any-theories-or-explanations/692555/25 "2014-07-07T19:40:02Z")
**aceplace57** Um, Shia Muslims are perhaps not ‘protesting’ ISIS and its anti-Shia crusades, because they’re hoping to do something a bit more effective. > **[Indian Shias sign up to fight in Iraq](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2014/7/1/indian-shias-sign-up-to-fight-in-iraq)** > > Shia group Anjuman-e-Haideri claims it already has 25,000 volunteers and floats tender for flights to Baghdad. > **['Iranian attack jets deployed' to help Iraq fight Isis](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28125687)** > > Iran has supplied Iraq with ground attack jets to help it counter the offensive led by the Islamist group Isis, strong evidence suggests. > **[In the Shadows of Shrines, Shiite Forces Are Preparing to Fight ISIS...](https://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/27/world/middleeast/in-the-shadows-of-shrines-shiite-forces-are-preparing-to-fight-isis.html?_r=0)** > > Security officials in Iraq’s Shiite holy twin cities, Karbala and Najaf, scoff at the extremist Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, saying their defense forces are ready to meet the threat. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-understand-the-double-standard-muslims-put-on-the-west-any-theories-or-explanations/692555/26 "2014-07-07T19:42:02Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > You can’t grasp the concept that those billion people follow the teachings of one person? The Prophet Muhammad? Just like Christians follow the teaching of our Savior Jesus Christ? Yes, and that’s all that can be said about them as a group. There’s nothing besides “they follow Islam”, or some variation, that can be said about Muslims that does not also apply to non-Muslims. > [@](#): > > There are major differences from region to region. Country to country. The Methodists, Baptists, Church of Christ, Catholic, Church of England, Lutherans, and no telling how many other Christian churches. We have our differences (some pretty big) but we are all united through Christ. And so it goes with the many, many variations on Islam. > [@](#): > > If you see a religion that you follow and care about perverted and twisted into hate. Don’t you as an individual have a responsibility to speak up? Doesn’t your local church or Mosque have that same responsibility? And many Muslims and mosques do speak up against certain bad actions perpetrated by individuals who happen to be Muslim. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-understand-the-double-standard-muslims-put-on-the-west-any-theories-or-explanations/692555/27 "2014-07-07T20:00:39Z")
At this point fighting and defeating ISIS is a necessary step. It won’t do very much to kill off the organization. The US spent over a decade fighting Al Qaeda and even using drone attacks against their leaders. We did a lot of damage against their command and control structure. But they keep bringing in fresh recruits. New leaders always emerge. The best we can do is weaken and contain groups like ISIS and Al Qaeda. This problem will never end until a local solution is found that cuts the recruits to a trickle. I’m not sure why the Sunni insurgents joined with ISIS. If this was purely a Sunni insurgency then I “might” say that’s great. That region of Iraq needs it’s own government. But ISIS has declared they are creating a radical Islam state. That is a threat to everybody. Even other moderate Muslim countries need to be very concerned. But, the focus of this thread is questioning why more hasn’t been done by the moderates. If they do represent 80% or more of Muslims then their voice should make all the difference. > [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > **aceplace57** Um, Shia Muslims are perhaps not ‘protesting’ ISIS and its anti-Shia crusades, because they’re hoping to do something a bit more effective. > [Indian Shias sign up to fight in Iraq | News | Al Jazeera](http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2014/07/indian-shias-sign-up-fight-iraq-20147110924262541.html) > > ['Iranian attack jets deployed' to help Iraq fight Isis - BBC News](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28125687) > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/27/world/middleeast/in-the-shadows-of-shrines-shiite-forces-are-preparing-to-fight-isis.html?\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/27/world/middleeast/in-the-shadows-of-shrines-shiite-forces-are-preparing-to-fight-isis.html?_r=0) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-understand-the-double-standard-muslims-put-on-the-west-any-theories-or-explanations/692555/28 "2014-07-07T20:06:18Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The US spent over a decade fighting Al Qaeda and even using drone attacks against their leaders. We did a lot of damage against their command and control structure. But they keep bringing in fresh recruits. New leaders always emerge. Name one. I’ll say this much- that group does appear to be pretty much dead. > [@](#): > > I’m not sure why the Sunni insurgents joined with ISIS. Because Prime Minister al-Maliki (a Shiite) is mistreating them and excluding them from the Iraqi government. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-understand-the-double-standard-muslims-put-on-the-west-any-theories-or-explanations/692555/29 "2014-07-07T20:38:57Z")
This thread seems to have quickly drifted off topic pretty quickly. I saw the photos of the destroyed Shrines and Mosques. My first thought was the world wide frenzy that would have erupted if the US had done that. The disproportionate standard is pretty glaring. That was the beginning of this thread. The double standard has been bothering me for years. Our troops are expected to live up to standards few others even consider following. I’m very proud that our troops did show restraint. There were a few bad incidents and people have been prosecuted and held accountable. Considering the huge size of our forces the few incidents says a lot about the professionalism and training of US forces. All it would have taken is a mistake on a map coordinate and we would have blown a mosque or shrine to dust. I’m glad that didn’t happen. The price we would have paid in angry mobs around our embassies would have been quite high. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-understand-the-double-standard-muslims-put-on-the-west-any-theories-or-explanations/692555/30 "2014-07-07T20:42:15Z")
I think that is a natural effect of xenophobia towards groups your culture does not value. In the US when a white person goes on a shooting rampage it sucks, but people do not extend that to all white people. If a black person or a mentally ill person goes on a shooting rampage, people extend that kind of behavior to all blacks or mentally ill. There are lots of instances of people who are politically partisan getting upset when the other party does something considered bad (tramples civil rights, runs up debt, grows government, etc) who are silent when their own party does it. On the subject of muslim extremism, I’ve heard about 5-20% agree ideologically with islamist extremists, but only a very small % of that group offers any actual aid other than moral support (financial support, military support, etc). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-understand-the-double-standard-muslims-put-on-the-west-any-theories-or-explanations/692555/31 "2014-07-07T20:42:23Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > This thread seems to have quickly drifted off topic pretty quickly. Turns out the Middle East is complicated. Who knew?!? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-understand-the-double-standard-muslims-put-on-the-west-any-theories-or-explanations/692555/32 "2014-07-07T20:43:54Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Turns out the Middle East is complicated. Who knew?!? Thats why when I play risk I always avoid it and focus on taking over north america. Never get involved in a land war in asia. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-understand-the-double-standard-muslims-put-on-the-west-any-theories-or-explanations/692555/33 "2014-07-07T21:18:04Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > But, the focus of this thread is questioning why more hasn’t been done by the moderates. If they do represent 80% or more of Muslims then their voice should make all the difference. Much is being done by the moderates. You just brushed it aside. And moderate voices are not likely to sway the opinions of extremists. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-understand-the-double-standard-muslims-put-on-the-west-any-theories-or-explanations/692555/34 "2014-07-07T21:37:29Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I have wondered if Christian leaders would have the courage and moral conviction to loudly speak out against any Christian terror groups. OTOH, when Muslims were being massacred during the “ethnic cleansing” in Bosnia in the 1990’s, there were Jewish groups who rallied in support of those Muslims. Jews saw a little holocaust in the making, and remembered their post-war slogan “Never again!”, and understood that it wasn’t only about Jews. [A Look at Jewish Support for Bosnian Muslims During Ethnic Cleansing & Genocide in Bosnia (1992-”95)](http://bosniakandjewishfriendship.wordpress.com/2012/11/27/a-look-at-jewish-support-for-bosnian-muslims-during-ethnic-cleansing-genocide-in-bosnia-1992-95/) ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-understand-the-double-standard-muslims-put-on-the-west-any-theories-or-explanations/692555/35 "2014-07-07T23:25:27Z")
There are very good people and religious organizations in the world. There was a [minister who literally shielded a victim](http://articles.latimes.com/1993-05-02/local/me-30352_1_peace-rally) in the LA riots (after the R King verdict). Telling them they’d have to kill him before they could reach the trucker. The minister drove the guy to the hospital in the middle of a riot. I believe firmly that men of moral conviction can stand against evil. They can make a difference in this wretched world. I’m at a loss why people have passively sat back and watched Radical Islam spread since the 1980’s. By resistance I’m not necessarily talking with violence. Teaching and mentoring this young men before they join up is the only practical answer. No matter what, some will still choose to become radicalized. But the religious leaders in a community can save a lot of them. I’ll climb off the soapbox now. It really doesn’t fit me all that well. 😉 I had my say. > [@](#): > > He was eulogized as far more than an instant hero. Rather, he was a man driven to heroism by a deep belief in love among the races. > > “A lot of us carry our Bibles, but how many really know it?” asked Laverne Smith, a longtime friend. “There are not many men in Los Angeles who would do what he did,” Pastor Robert Caldwell said. > > Newton understood well the darker impulses of human nature. He had served time in such prisons as San Quentin for a variety of crimes, including armed robbery, pimping and drug possession. When Mayor Tom Bradley gave Newton a commendation for his courage last year, it was their second meeting. Thirty-five years before, Los Angeles Police Officer Bradley arrested Newton for pimping and drug dealing. > > “Every prisoner from Pelican Bay to San Quentin knew who Bennie Newton was,” Chaplain Bob Macdo said. “You know his background.” > > In the late 1970s, Newton “stopped running from God” and had a spiritual awakening, said Lanett Pricke, his niece. > > He launched his own carpet-cleaning business, and employed ex-convicts. In 1980, he formed the Light of Love Outreach Ministry in Westchester, which ministered to young people in county jails and on Skid Row. “Saving lives was an everyday event for Bennie Newton,” said Randall England, another friend. > > But it was his rescue of Lopez that brought him into the public eye. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-understand-the-double-standard-muslims-put-on-the-west-any-theories-or-explanations/692555/36 "2014-07-07T23:48:52Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > There are very good people and religious organizations in the world. > > There was a [minister who literally shielded a victim](http://articles.latimes.com/1993-05-02/local/me-30352_1_peace-rally) in the LA riots (after the R King verdict). Telling them they’d have to kill him before they could reach the trucker. The minister drove the guy to the hospital in the middle of a riot. > > I believe firmly that men of moral conviction can stand against evil. They can make a difference in this wretched world. > > I’m at a loss why people have passively sat back and watched Radical Islam spread since the 1980’s. By resistance I’m not necessarily talking with violence. Teaching and mentoring this young men before they join up is the only practical answer. No matter what, some will still choose to become radicalized. But the religious leaders in a community can save a lot of them. > > I’ll climb off the soapbox now. It really doesn’t fit me all that well. 😉 I had my say. Muslims have done all of these good things too, you just aren’t listening. The soapbox doesn’t fit you because all your claims about Muslims as a group are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-understand-the-double-standard-muslims-put-on-the-west-any-theories-or-explanations/692555/37 "2014-07-07T23:56:05Z")
It’s telling that in countries with electoral representation people like Ahmadinejad, who denies the Holocaust, and Morsi, who equated Jews to pigs, actually get elected. That is a stinging indictment of the so-called “moderate” Islam. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2014, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-understand-the-double-standard-muslims-put-on-the-west-any-theories-or-explanations/692555/38 "2014-07-08T00:24:13Z")
You’re right. There is some work being done behind the scenes. Interesting article here on how Europe is trying to deal with the youth attracted by extremist trends. I did some searching and found it after some comments in this thread. It’s an example of a more quiet approach, taking on one case at a time. [https://uk.news.yahoo.com/europe-takes-rehab-approach-islamic-extremists-111655984.html#Bd0KgrM](https://uk.news.yahoo.com/europe-takes-rehab-approach-islamic-extremists-111655984.html#Bd0KgrM) The problem is different in places like the UK and Europe where people are radicalized purely be teaching. vs Say someone in Syria or Iraq. They have all the tribal and ethnic conflicts fueling their hate. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Muslims have done all of these good things too, you just aren’t listening. The soapbox doesn’t fit you because all your claims about Muslims as a group are wrong. > [@](#): > > “The most important thing is to avoid reacting to provocation,” said Koehler, explaining that Islamic extremists have usually been drilled to expect a challenge to their beliefs, and react badly. > > “We encourage the family to connect with their son or daughter on an emotional level.” > > In one Skype call, Koehler said, a mother opposed her son’s attempts to get approval for a suicide attack in Syria, prompting him to launch into a lengthy religious diatribe. > > “After an hour the family asked him how he was, whether he was eating, and so forth. He just calmed down completely,” said Koehler. Since then the son has become less radical and contacts his family regularly. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2014, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-understand-the-double-standard-muslims-put-on-the-west-any-theories-or-explanations/692555/39 "2014-07-08T00:47:10Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > It’s telling that in countries with electoral representation people like Ahmadinejad, who denies the Holocaust, and Morsi, who equated Jews to pigs, actually get elected. > > That is a stinging indictment of the so-called “moderate” Islam. Would you agree that the election of prominent segregationists in the US up through the sixties and seventies was a “stinging indictment” of Christianity? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2014, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-understand-the-double-standard-muslims-put-on-the-west-any-theories-or-explanations/692555/40 "2014-07-08T02:00:57Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > It’s telling that in countries with electoral representation people like Ahmadinejad, who denies the Holocaust, and Morsi, who equated Jews to pigs, actually get elected. > > That is a stinging indictment of the so-called “moderate” Islam. Again, the history of Morsi’s party in Egypt is relevant - and of course as soon as they started grabbing power, the people and the military both revolted and Morsi is now in jail. He lasted all of a year. And if you think Iran’s elections are legitimate, I have a New York City bridge to sell you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-understand-the-double-standard-muslims-put-on-the-west-any-theories-or-explanations/692555.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-dont-understand-the-double-standard-muslims-put-on-the-west-any-theories-or-explanations/692555.md?page=3)