# I Just Fired Someone **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 25, 2005, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-fired-someone/327801 "2005-10-25T12:44:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2005, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-fired-someone/327801/61 "2005-10-26T00:50:10Z")
There must be something in the air, for today I fired a law clerk. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2005, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-fired-someone/327801/62 "2005-10-26T00:52:49Z")
The firing was entirely justified. As said above, this was an easy one to decide, but still painful I’m sure. (I’ve done it, and didn’t like it.) A question: she was remorseful, but remorse is cheap. Did she attempt to give any justification for her actions? ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2005, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-fired-someone/327801/63 "2005-10-26T01:14:28Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > 1. There seems to be an undercurrent in this thread of pro-female sexism: the fired should be given greater leeway because she is a she; sorry but we live in an age of sexual equality and you can’t have it both ways. Sorry - I guess I missed that. Who here has argued that she should get a second chance because of her gender? ---
**Author:** ![MaddyStrut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@MaddyStrut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaddyStrut)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2005, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-fired-someone/327801/64 "2005-10-26T01:17:25Z")
I also think **Bricker** did the right thing. I can’t think of any probable way her actions could be excused or forgiven. _Perhaps_ if she had been a long time employee that had always been a top performer, always above board, always trustworthy, I _may_ have second thoughts and taken into account any personal or other circumstances that lead to this. But maybe not (never been in that situation). Plagarism is a pretty serious offense. I can imagine it would be painful. Not only the act of firing someone (which, even if it’s for cause is still difficult), but it would really hurt to feel so lied to and betrayed by a trusted employee. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2005, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-fired-someone/327801/65 "2005-10-26T01:18:22Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > As for forgiveness, I’ve got a couple questions. > > First, **Bricker** , you’re the most thoughtful conservative Christian I know. I say that because I hope you’ll understand I’m not accusing you of hypocrisy when I ask you whether, and how, you view your actions within a Christian context. It’s genuinely not something I understand: I would think that Jesus’s “Cast the first stone” speech would make firing someone very difficult. Obviously, if his speech is taken to mean that we can never punish people for their actions, society has a hard time functioning; however, I wonder whether that constitutes a sufficient answer to his edict? If you feel like shedding light on how you see this, I’d appreciate it. Personally, I would have no problem forgiving her, if I believed her repentance to be sincere. Based on the repeated lies that were forthcoming during our conversation, even after I asked her to come clean… she admitted only to what she thought I knew at every step, and swore that it was the extent of the misconduct… until the next revelation… I’d opine that her sincere repentence is not at hand. Even so, my personal forgiveness is not sufficient to keep someone on the job, since I’m representing not myself, but my company. Our good performance on this contract keeps dozens of people employed. Losing a contract of this size would mean layoffs for some people. As you hint, it’s impossible to regard Christ’s parable as intended to apply literally and without reservation across the board; society could not function if every accused criminal could face a jury and say, “Let he who is without sin among you cast the frist stone,” and be set free. I regard the parable as urging us always to temper justice with mercy, and to always remember that God forgives us unreservedly. We should aspire to those heights, but remember that we live in a world of now, with consequences. > [@](#): > > Second, if there is to be repenting (and here I’m no longer asking within a religious context), it seems to me that the most she can hope for is that your firm will give her a neutral reference for future employers. Do you know how your firm will respond, if she puts your name on a resume and someone calls? Yes. We will confirm her hire and termination dates, her title, and her salary. We won’t give any other information, positive or negative. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2005, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-fired-someone/327801/66 "2005-10-26T01:33:51Z")
You’re good people, **Bricker**. ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2005, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-fired-someone/327801/67 "2005-10-26T03:28:22Z")
A friend of mine is a manager. I remember the first time that he had to fire someone, and even though it was for cause he really agonized over it. His dad told him something that has stuck with me, and I always think about it when I see someone let go for good reason: “You didn’t fire Joe. Joe fired himself. You just filled out the paperwork.” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2005, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-fired-someone/327801/68 "2005-10-26T04:05:50Z")
Another person who agrees that the circumstances were regretable but Bricker’s actions were necessary. I’m also a manager who’s had to submit subordinates for firing - they knew the rules, they knew the consequences of breaking those rules, and they made the decision to break them. I wouldn’t be doing my job is I ignored their actions. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2005, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-fired-someone/327801/69 "2005-10-26T04:13:16Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > There must be something in the air, for today I fired a law clerk. And I found blatant plagiarism in four different students’ papers this past week. Hmmm… ---
**Author:** ![Dynation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de0a6/32.png) [@Dynation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dynation)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2005, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-fired-someone/327801/70 "2005-10-26T04:18:11Z")
Reminds me of when i fired someone for a similar thing… This is a person four years out of college - about 25 years old. And she is a plagarist. Details are both irrelevant and inappropriate, except to say that there is no question regarding the plagarism, it was detected by our client, and she admitted to it. She was full of remorse. But frankly, this is not a second-chance type scenario. She billed for three weeks of work for “creating” this document, when in fact she spent perhaps half an hour changing some key words via search and replace. For quasi-sincere sorrow, she reminded me of the “Laura K. Krishna” case we discussed back in March. But if her sorrow were sincerely felt beyond simply the consequences of being caught, I can’t believe she’d have chosen this road in the first place. Anyway - she’s gone. And I’m pissed at the casual attitude that some people carry around about plagarism. (Please forgive me if someone has already done this joke…) ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2005, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-fired-someone/327801/71 "2005-10-26T04:55:55Z")
I can top that. I fired someone who was three years out of grad school - about 27 years old. And he is a plagarist. Details are both unimportant and inconvenient, except to say that there is no doubt about the plagarism, our client caught it, and he ultimately 'fessed up. Yeah, he was a sorry sucker. But frankly, this is not a second-chance type scenario. He billed for four weeks of work for “creating” this document, when in fact he spent perhaps 15 minutes or less on it, just changing some key words via search and replace. That’s assuming that he did it himself. This vaguely reminds me of the famous “Laura K. Krishna” case. He says he’s sorry, but if he was sincerely sorry, then I can’t believe he’d have done this in the first place. Anyway - he’s gone. Long gone. And plagiarists suck. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2005, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-fired-someone/327801/72 "2005-10-26T06:01:04Z")
Ooohhhhhh, _now_ I get it. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2005, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-fired-someone/327801/73 "2005-10-26T06:20:43Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Second, if there is to be repenting (and here I’m no longer asking within a religious context), it seems to me that the most she can hope for is that your firm will give her a neutral reference for future employers. Do you know how your firm will respond, if she puts your name on a resume and someone calls? > Daniel I think in that line of business ,she is toast. That brother bricker gives her a tepid reference is nice and all , but a future job requires her to provide examples of what she has done in the past, responsible for and such like that. Just saying ya she worked here X date to y date , and nothing more is probably going to scream red flag to someone. So your one of the HR droids , and this lady comes in and forerightly admits to what she has done in the past , and why she got fired from her last job , what do you do ? Declan ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2005, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-fired-someone/327801/74 "2005-10-26T06:20:56Z")
> [@Valgard](#): > > “You didn’t fire Joe. Joe fired himself. You just filled out the paperwork.” Well, for that type of scenario, yeah. However, I once had to fire fifteen people, due to cutbacks the company needed to make, just after we had a big kick off and get-together to inspire said guys about the future work for the company. It was not a pleasant experience. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2005, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-fired-someone/327801/75 "2005-10-26T07:16:26Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > For quasi-sincere sorrow, she reminded me of the “Laura K. _Krishna_” case we discussed back in March. But if her sorrow were sincerely felt beyond simply the consequences of being caught, I can’t believe she’d have chosen this road in the first place. I’m just curious. Do you mean she _said_ to you, “This is like the Laura K. Krishna case”? If so, why did she go ahead and do this anyway, despite having been given a shining example of what **not** to do? Or do you mean this situation made you _think_ of LKK? and what really blew my mind about LKK was how she claimed to be desperate, but was only willing to pay $75. Hell, she flushed her entire college education; what’s the difference if she’d made it an even hundred? ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2005, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-fired-someone/327801/76 "2005-10-26T10:48:01Z")
**Bricker** , I’ve been involved in a few firings over the years, and, no matter how justified it is, it’s still difficult. You’ve got my sympathies. I’ve also done the odd bit of documentation over the years. It _can’t_ be done using stock boiler plate. Every company has it’s own individual quirks and ways of doing things which are peculiar to that company. Boilerplate may describe the way things should be done, but not the way things are done. I’m a liberal, compassionate Christian. I do believe in giving people second chances. I also know that some people will take advantage of my compassion and my faith, or at least try to. A year ago, I had to go to court to testify to what I saw when a young man who was high on alcohol, valium, and cocaine crossed the center line of a local road and drove into a minivan carrying a family of five. As a Christian, I believe the way in which I could best love my neighbor as myself was to let him suffer the consequences of his actions so that he could, hopefully, learn from his mistake and not continue to harm himself or others. As a realist who’s associated with junkies, I don’t really expect him to. **Bricker** , _I_ happen to think that letting this young woman suffer the consequences of her action was the right and Christian thing to do, if that’s worth anything. Again, I am sorry it happened. Then again, I’m not surprised you did the right thing. Respectfully, CJ ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2005, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-fired-someone/327801/77 "2005-10-26T12:03:06Z")
Thanks for your answers, **Bricker** ; I appreciate them! Daniel ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2005, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-fired-someone/327801/78 "2005-10-26T12:09:25Z")
That would be a rather odd and suspiciously selective case of mental breakdown, then. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2005, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-fired-someone/327801/79 "2005-10-26T12:11:33Z")
Sorry; I mean to reference post #49 in my comment above. ---
**Author:** ![RTA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@RTA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTA)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2005, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-fired-someone/327801/80 "2005-10-26T12:29:10Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > 1. This work is paid for out of the public purse - your tax dollars at work - and a higher standard applies. It’s appopriate to feel this way. Meanwhile, virtually every post made by **Bricker** on this message board between the hours of 9 and 5 EST, Mon-Fri are “paid for out of the public purse” and “your tax dollars at work” - are they not? The angst of firing someone is unfortunate but ultimately I cannot sympathize. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-fired-someone/327801.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-fired-someone/327801.md?page=5)