# I just flunked several students **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 6, 2008, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-flunked-several-students/475933 "2008-12-06T00:31:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-flunked-several-students/475933/21 "2008-12-07T03:31:30Z")
> [@Sonnenstrahl](#): > > I’ve lurked a bit and I gather you’re in nursing school? I appreciate that the standards are probably higher than a general arts/sciences program (and I’m glad if they are!), but I personally think that kind of grade inflation is destined to drive students crazy with perfectionism. I couldn’t have coped, knowing that nearly perfect was expected. I was always very happy in undergrad when I got an 84, and I graduated in the top 2% of my class. You really have my sympathies. I’m trying to get \*into \*nursing school. They usually have about 10 applications for each spot. So that’s why I’m a little Hermione about my grades right now on the stuff that will be on my nursing school applications. Once I get in, I’ll be more than happy to skate by with the minimum C’s required! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sonnenstrahl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@Sonnenstrahl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sonnenstrahl)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-flunked-several-students/475933/22 "2008-12-07T03:33:12Z")
Good. I was hoping that 90s weren’t required to stay in nursing school! Otherwise my nurses will all be having nervous breakdowns on their rounds. 🙂 Good luck! Nurses are awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Kerrigan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/49beb7/32.png) [@Kerrigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kerrigan)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-flunked-several-students/475933/23 "2008-12-07T03:41:17Z")
Yes, they are all the ones who are neurotic 4.0s right up until they start nursing school. And then, amazingly, grades don’t matter _quite as much_ for the next couple of years. You’re thrilled to just pass! I graduated nursing school two years ago, and in about a month I’m starting again. You’d think I’d know better by now! (First time was with my associate’s, now I’m doing my RN-BSN. How worried do you guys think I am about my statistics and chemistry finals on Monday? Nope. I already know I’m passing the classes…) ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-flunked-several-students/475933/24 "2008-12-07T04:01:33Z")
> [@Sonnenstrahl](#): > > … I was always very happy in undergrad when I got an 84, and I graduated in the top 2% of my class. … It all depends on the subject and what level. I remember taking a few courses where 60% was an A. I liked those courses best, because it was there that thinking out of the box helped show that you really knew your shit. You weren’t supposed to solve every problem for an A, just solve most of them. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-flunked-several-students/475933/25 "2008-12-07T04:41:40Z")
I think middle & high school teachers make things hard on college professors by perpetuating an antagonistic relationship with their students and not giving a fuck if they’re viewed as “the enemy.” When kids get to college where it seems to me professors are more understanding and willing to communicate, they don’t want to do it, because it has never worked in the past. That has been the result of my observations, at least. That and college freshmen and sophmores are often morons. ---
**Author:** ![Nightingale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecae2f/32.png) [@Nightingale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightingale)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-flunked-several-students/475933/26 "2008-12-07T04:51:53Z")
Heh we had a favorite formula in nursing school: C=RN. I was a straight A (with the occasional B) student up until nursing school; then I very quickly learned to be happy with Bs and C’s. I worked a lot harder for my C in Pediatric Nursing than for my A in English Lit! ---
**Author:** ![Cub\_Mistress](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea666f/32.png) [@Cub\_Mistress](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cub_Mistress)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-flunked-several-students/475933/27 "2008-12-07T12:28:01Z")
> [@Nightingale](#): > > Heh we had a favorite formula in nursing school: C=RN. I was a straight A (with the occasional B) student up until nursing school; then I very quickly learned to be happy with Bs and C’s. I worked a lot harder for my C in Pediatric Nursing than for my A in English Lit! One of my nursing school classmates had “C=RN” on a t-shirt that he wore for tests. One of the first things I found out when I got into nursing school was that \*\*everybody \*\*who got in was an A student. Some stayed A students and some didn’t. Almost 50% of my class was gone before the end of the program, most by the end of the first semester. The standard for retention in the program was a score of 75%, which was higher than the college’s minimum. ---
**Author:** ![lawoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/35a633/32.png) [@lawoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawoot)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-flunked-several-students/475933/28 "2008-12-07T17:29:32Z")
Every quarter that I teach (community college level, technical theatre) I seem to have a student who feels that they can just blow off class, not turn in assignments, etc. The last quarter I taught I had one of these, but he attempted to communicate, get extensions for his work, etc. I granted these requests. He turned in half of the assignments he’d missed, then missed the final exam. F. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-flunked-several-students/475933/29 "2008-12-08T00:52:20Z")
Wait, you guys have a WEEK between the last day of classes and finals? McGill gives one DAY! And, naturally, every term so far, I have had an exam on the first two days of finals. No fair! AND I had to hand in a lab report and had an exam today\* since homework can be due during the exam period. (\*Sunday… in order to give students the opportunity to vote in the provincial elections tomorrow, the school moved Monday to Sunday. Frankly, I would have had plenty of time to vote even with the exam!) On the other hand, I have now done 4/5 finals already, and my next one is on the 18th. So nearly 2 weeks off in the middle isn’t something to complain about, but that’s just the luck of the draw, not school policy! ---
**Author:** ![ReuvenB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc348/32.png) [@ReuvenB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ReuvenB)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-flunked-several-students/475933/30 "2008-12-08T01:09:51Z")
Over here we still have classes during dead week. We just aren’t supposed to have homework or assignments due. The only exceptions are final projects taking the place of an exam. ---
**Author:** ![footballisplayedwithyourfeet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9f8e36/32.png) [@footballisplayedwithyourfeet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/footballisplayedwithyourfeet)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-flunked-several-students/475933/31 "2008-12-08T13:31:59Z")
> [@Waenara](#): > > Funny, one of my professors told a story in class last week about her daughter (who’s currently a university student). > > Apparently my professor’s daughter was hugely stressed about a ton of term papers that were all due at the same time. My professor suggested to her daughter that she contact her instructor to ask for an extension. The daughter thought that wouldn’t work, since it was just because she was disorganized and procrastinated, and no one died or anything. My prof reassured her that it couldn’t hurt to ask, and if you’re honest with your instructor and explain what happened and how you’ve learned from the experience, they might give you an extension anyways. So the daughter did ask, and she got her extension! > > Also, it was pretty obvious that my prof told our class this story to let us know that we could do that same thing. Most prof’s I’ve ever had can be pretty understanding, provided you communicate openly with them ahead of time [sub](don’t call a week after the due date and you’ve already failed)[/sub] and are honest about what happened [sub](don’t make up bullshit stories)[/sub]. As someone who teaches college classes, this is absolutely true! if you need a few days extra, just contact me and tell me; there is a ninety percent change that i will be ok with it. But do not e-mail me a week after the deadline with sobstories about how bad your life is turning out. Communication is everything! ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-flunked-several-students/475933/32 "2008-12-08T14:23:15Z")
> [@footballisplayedwithyourfeet](#): > > As someone who teaches college classes, this is absolutely true! if you need a few days extra, just contact me and tell me; there is a ninety percent change that i will be ok with it. But do not e-mail me a week after the deadline with sobstories about how bad your life is turning out. Communication is everything! Eh, it depends for me. (both of these are true anecdotes) Showing up for the final exam and saying you might need to leave early because your six-month-old is in ICU? Please, go deal with that and get back in touch with me once the situation is resolved - school can wait! Contacting me ahead of time to say that you’ll need an extra day to take the final because you have Dave Matthews tickets for the night before the exam? Um…no. The problem is that in my experience, the students who ask for special arrangements ask incessantly for the flimsiest reasons. I have absolutely no problem with working with the students who have made a genuine effort all semester and who run into situations that are unexpected. Those, unfortunately, are rarely the ones who end up on my doorstep. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-flunked-several-students/475933/33 "2008-12-08T14:32:29Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > Students who “write” like that deserve no response. Because it’s really spelt ‘kthx_bai_’. Proper spelling is important. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-flunked-several-students/475933/34 "2008-12-08T15:20:40Z")
I had a prof who announced on the first night of her class that 30% of the previous class had failed. Now, personally, I think that this was a sign she was a little bit of a jerk and a bad instructor, but on the other hand, no one left after the first night thinking they’d be able to ignore the work and pass. She was brutal - there was a girl in class showing up with 102 degree fever because we had a quiz scheduled and there was no makeup on the quizzes - and the girl couldn’t afford to blow off points. But if she wouldn’t let you make up a quiz, no one pushed it over Dave Matthews tickets. ---
**Author:** ![MissTake](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misstake/32/3189_2.png) [@MissTake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissTake)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-flunked-several-students/475933/35 "2008-12-08T15:44:40Z")
TheKid is having major problems with her math teacher (9th grade Algebra) and will probably be doing summer school. He writes the assignment on the board, she writes it down in her planner. Somehow it seems to change from the time it’s on the board to when it’s turned in, and she perpetually receives minimal grades on everything. She transferred into the class a week and a half late - he was gracious to give her two days to complete all the back homework. Work she had already done in her other Algebra class, but since it was a different textbook she had to do it all over. He is pretty strict - nothing can be turned in late unless you have an excused absence. If she is out Monday, her homework that was due Monday and the homework that was assigned Monday is due Tuesday. The turning Monday’s homework in Tuesday is the ‘extension’. This would work out fine **if** he posted the syllabus online timely. We were reviewing the assignments yesterday and he has nothing since last Wednesday listed. I am not saying my poor baby is being abused by the mean teacher. She calls him “Whats-his-face”, admits to not paying attention, doesn’t grasp the concept of showing her work, and constantly whines about no practical application of Algebra to “real” life. He offers tutoring help, which is useless for a kid who dislikes him anyways. My suggestions to confirm assignments falls on deaf ears. She will not talk to him. Any ideas? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-flunked-several-students/475933/36 "2008-12-08T15:45:30Z")
> [@footballisplayedwithyourfeet](#): > > if you need a few days extra, just contact me and tell me; there is a ninety percent change that i will be ok with it. But do not e-mail me a week after the deadline with sobstories about how bad your life is turning out. Communication is everything! My wife teached Business Law at a community college. She regularly flunks a quarter to a third of her class. She finds it extremely baffling and frustrating, as she makes a point of emphasizing everything that she tests in class. But she regularly will give multiple choice tests where the class averages 50%. Last test she asked one of her better students what he thought of the test. He said he looked over his notes and the book afterwards and thought only 2 out of 36 or so questions were in the least bit unclear, and had not been specifically addressed in class. My wife agreed with him as to one of them. And if a student believes a particular question was unclear or unfair, she always allows them to challenge it and will reward a decent argument with credit for that question. Some years back she went to nearly 100% multiple choice for 2 reasons: First, it was just too much effort to try to grade the bottom 50% of papers, where you couldn’t tell what they were trying to say. Good papers are easy to grade. poor ones are impossible. And second, she found that multiple choice yielded just about the same curve. It really seems that in her classes a substantial portion simply put forth no effort. She says they do not seem mentally deficient when dealing with them one-on-one. But they just don’t seem to care. You can only simplify Business Law so much before you aren’t teaching the material. And even though she is at a community college, the course needs to meet some standards to be transferrable to other schools. Every semester she comes home with stories about kids who simply vanish for weeks, missing tests and assignments, only to come back and ask for make-up material. One example I remember is a kid who had to go home to India for some reason or another. You mean they do not have the internet or cellphone service in India? Once a test has been graded and returned, it would not be fair to the rest of the class to give you the same test. And she isn’t paid enough to write up multiple versions of each test/assignment simply for each student’s convenience. E-mail is great. It gives you time and date proof of your communication. And my wife will be extremely accommodating if someone shoots off an e-mail at any time before the test/due date. But invariably the pleas and excuses come well after the date. Honestly guys, she couldn’t care less about the excuse. Just wants the bare minimum communication and courtesy. Also, she is very willing to allow kids to drop up until the end of a class, if they want to avoid a failing grade. Many times, however, for whatever reasons the kids need to show completion of a certain number of classes - such as to remain on their parents’ insurance. With my wife’s students at least, it seems a large percentage of them simply have no sense of personal responsibility. Makes us wonder what kind of life of privilege they have lived up to this point, and how they are going to survive on their own after school. ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-flunked-several-students/475933/37 "2008-12-08T16:05:42Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > I have to admit, I used to be that student. That’s why I eventually gave up on college about 15 years ago. I’d get behind, or sick or whatever, and then I’d start panicking and put off talking to the teacher and skip class again to avoid her and then it would be even harder to talk to her and then suddenly it’d be the end of the semester and I’d have thoroughly hosed myself. You summarized my undergrad experience very nicely. I returned to school about a dozen years later and was amazed at how much easier it was when I actually attended class. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-flunked-several-students/475933/38 "2008-12-08T16:47:27Z")
Re: extensions… I don’t know, I have mixed feelings. Granting extensions without a good reason is unfair to the other students who didn’t ask, but who have the same workload. It can also be a problem if a student begins to feel like the teacher is there to serve them, and they deserve extensions just because - it can cause priority confusion. On the other hand, I’m a big fan of respecting my students as people, and I’d be lying if I said I never asked for extensions as a student. I suppose the happy medium is to be more liberal with extensions in higher-level classes, or with students who have shown themselves to be dedicated to the class. I hate it when my students fail. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-flunked-several-students/475933/39 "2008-12-08T17:28:28Z")
My syllabi are generally airtight and I write them in a very officious tone, almost jerkish, to get the point across that I don’t fool around. On the syllabi is the statement that I rarely grant extensions or incompletes. But I also tell the story of when I was in grad school, when I was trying to get to class at 9 am to turn in a stats assignment (lest I get the half-grade knocked off for turning it in “late”). I was on my bike in the rain-slicked streets of Cambridge, about to cross Fresh Pond Parkway against the light… and realized that it wasn’t worth risking my life over. I took my time, got to class, turned in the assignment at 9:02, got the half-grade deduction, and life went on. I’m very reasonable with helping students when I can. I teach grad students, many of whom have kids and full time jobs. So if you let me know IN ADVANCE that you need some extra time for a reason related to those issues, I’m usually quite willing to accommodate. But then you have a student like the one in one of my courses. The student is a school administrator, which means he/she’s quite busy, and occasionally has emergencies to deal with. Understandable. But what is annoying is that I never get notice before or after these events. Virtually every student I have will e-mail or call if they’re going to be late, or even think it might happen (part of the grade is class attendance). This student… no contact. I will send a "hey we missed you e-mail and half the time I get a response. The final straw was an e-mail addressed to me: “Dear Dr. Hallow.” The second one the student’s sent to me with my name misspelled! (And my name is everywhere - syllabus, e-mail sig, etc.) Needless to say I’ve no sympathy for this student, especially when virtually all others are so on top of things. And I say this as someone whose organizational skills are not my strong suit. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-flunked-several-students/475933/40 "2008-12-08T18:16:23Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > With my wife’s students at least, it seems a large percentage of them simply have no sense of personal responsibility. Makes us wonder what kind of life of privilege they have lived up to this point, and how they are going to survive on their own after school. This was something I noticed from my tough as nails prof and my inept classmates. The course was upperclass for a B.S. in Accounting - by the time you took this one, you should have taken at least three other accounting courses, plus the core courses - Algebra, Econ, Intro to Management… it was probably one of your final four Accounting courses. So how in the world could 30% of the students get to an advanced course and fail? Absolutely every one of these other courses was taught by pushovers - and the school policy seemed to encourage students being able to plead, whine or threaten their way into a C-. Frankly, it was absolutely unfair to the students to pass them through earlier coursework when they hadn’t even come close to gaining competence with the material and stick them with Professor Hardass as Seniors - she was the only person who taught the class, and some of the students in the room were there for the third time - a lot of them ended up delaying graduation - or not graduating because they couldn’t pass her course. If you are going to fail people (and I absolutely think you should) you should encourage professors earlier in the program to fail people. In this program, you should have needed a B or better in Intro to Accounting (required of all Business majors) to declare an accounting major. Can’t manage a B on the topic of which side debits go on? - you probably aren’t cut out to be an accountant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-flunked-several-students/475933.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-flunked-several-students/475933.md?page=3)