# I just had a few LDS "missionaries" visit my house. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 24, 2006, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-had-a-few-lds-missionaries-visit-my-house/349749 "2006-03-24T18:21:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-had-a-few-lds-missionaries-visit-my-house/349749/101 "2006-03-27T15:23:17Z")
> [@A.R. Cane](#): > > The important point that’s being overlooked is that these people are very agressive. They have been trained to ignore rejection and continue in their attempt to sway you w/ their patronizing zingers. If you ask them to leave they always have to respond w/ one last try. > I recall one incident where I was working nights. I made a sign for my door that said “Day Sleeper, Please do not disturb”. I was awakened on day by a holy roller and, when I called his attention to the sign, he replied w/ some crap about having an important message from god. When I told him I was agnostic (as I was closing the door) he told me that god loved athiests too. > Most recently, I was working in my yard, when these two young guys road up my drive on bikes. They were sporting their white shirts and ties and I knew what they were. They attempted to engage me in conversation w/ some generic greeting. When I responed that I wasn’t interested, they tried to push it further by telling me I didn’t even know what they wanted and then offering to help me w/ my yard work. I’m not fond of people who try to manipulate me and I told them to leave in no uncertain terms. They still persisted and I then told them that I was going to turn on the garden hose and if they weren’t gone by the time I did so that they were in danger of getting wet. > If you want me to respect your rights, then you must respect mine. I find it smarmy and arrogant to believe that you can knock on my door, or walk up to me on the street, and think you have the right to challenge my basic beliefs and philosophies. Practice your religion in your church, in your home, among those of like beliefs. Post signs welcoming others to join you. Advertise in the media, hell, even send me flyers if you want, but stay the hell off my private property and out of my face. > As far as exporting christianity to other cultures in other countries, yes I think it should be discouraged by our government. The freedoms of our Constitution do not extend to other governments and they have every right to consider it subversive activity, which is often exactly what it is. It may be smarmy and arrogant to knock on your door, but in the absence of prior constructive notice (like a sign for example) **it is also lawful.** It sucks when people are persistent or rude—and it is rude to ignore your ‘daysleeper’ sign. It appears thay your rights weren’t being respected. But you have remedies. You can change that sign to say “No JWs/ No LDS” And, you can call the police if they ignore that notice. They may be charged with trespass. Or, you can tell them that you wish not to be called upon any longer. I don’t know about LDS, but the JWs would endeavor to respect your wishes. But when they’re standing at your front door, your remedy is quite limited—probably limited to telling them to leave. (and as noted, as far as JWs are concerned you can simply give them notice that you don’t want to be called again, _at all_) But you cannot threaten them, not harm them. If you do, it will be you [rightfully] going to jail. The notion that our government would regulate the behavior of missionaries outside the USA is simply beyond the pale. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-had-a-few-lds-missionaries-visit-my-house/349749/102 "2006-03-27T15:42:57Z")
I wonder how they’d feel if religious groups showed up at the kingdom hall and told them they really need to convert to muslim or judaeism or what have you. Maybe someone needs to tell them THEY have it all wrong and the “other” way is the better way. The height of arrogance. They really need to get a secular clue. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-had-a-few-lds-missionaries-visit-my-house/349749/103 "2006-03-27T15:45:20Z")
> [@RSSchen](#): > > I just got out of the shower > b. I don’t _do_ religion via door > c. Hi Opal! > & d. That hub is Catholic and I’m agnostic (almost said atheist, glad I caught that!) and we’re quite happy with our beliefs. Hi! ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-had-a-few-lds-missionaries-visit-my-house/349749/104 "2006-03-27T15:59:58Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > I wonder how they’d feel if religious groups showed up at the kingdom hall and told them they really need to convert to muslim or judaeism or what have you. Maybe someone needs to tell them THEY have it all wrong and the “other” way is the better way. > > The height of arrogance. They really need to get a secular clue. You just don’t get it, do you? The JWs are the ones that fought the legal battles that established the rights of those other religious groups to call on the JWs to ‘convert’ to Islam or Judaism. [Generally] If an individual JW answers his door and finds a Muslim or LDS he would politely inform tham that he was JW and that he was not interested in becoming a Muslim of Mormon. The JW may be amenable to a discussion about the bible, but not as a debate or an argument. He would be polite. If the person at the door was rude or overly persistent the JW would simply ask them to leave and close the door if necessary. He might call the police if it was warranted. In any event he would not be abusive or threatening. He would be respectful. How hard is that? These threads seem to get people frothing at the mouth over something that is easy to remedy. If the people showed up at a Kingdom Hall (during a meeting) they would be told politely that it is/was not an appropriate time to discuss that topic, but that arrangements could be made to meet if the group wanted more information about what JWs believe. They would be invited to sit in on the meeting and observe if they wished, but they would not be allowed to disrupt the meeting. If they did, they would be asked to leave, and if they refused the police would be called. But at no point would they be violent, abusive or threatening. How hard is that? If you don’t like the JWs coming to your door, just calmly tell them that; and tell then you wish not to be called on again. How hard is that? ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-had-a-few-lds-missionaries-visit-my-house/349749/105 "2006-03-27T16:27:00Z")
> [@the raindog](#): > > If you don’t like the JWs coming to your door, just calmly tell them that; and tell then you wish not to be called on again. > > How hard is that? It’s easier to write that on a messageboard than to actually tell people to their faces that you don’t want them coming around. Nobody wants to have to tell anyone that. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-had-a-few-lds-missionaries-visit-my-house/349749/106 "2006-03-27T17:26:36Z")
> [@the raindog](#): > > You just don’t get it, do you? > > The JWs are the ones that fought the legal battles that established the rights of those other religious groups to call on the JWs to ‘convert’ to Islam or Judaism. > > [Generally] If an individual JW answers his door and finds a Muslim or LDS he would politely inform tham that he was JW and that he was not interested in becoming a Muslim of Mormon. The JW may be amenable to a discussion about the bible, but not as a debate or an argument. He would be polite. If the person at the door was rude or overly persistent the JW would simply ask them to leave and close the door if necessary. He might call the police if it was warranted. In any event he would not be abusive or threatening. He would be respectful. > > How hard is that? These threads seem to get people frothing at the mouth over something that is easy to remedy. > > If the people showed up at a Kingdom Hall (during a meeting) they would be told politely that it is/was not an appropriate time to discuss that topic, **but that arrangements could be made to meet if the group wanted more information about what JWs believe**. They would be invited to sit in on the meeting and observe if they wished, but they would not be allowed to disrupt the meeting. If they did, they would be asked to leave, and if they refused the police would be called. But at no point would they be violent, abusive or threatening. > > How hard is that? > > If you don’t like the JWs coming to your door, just calmly tell them that; and tell then you wish not to be called on again. > > How hard is that? (bolding mine) Maybe _you_ don’t get it. The group calling on the JWs doesn’t want to find out more about what JWs believe. They want to convert them. How did you manage to turn this into a “muslims or jews wanting to learn about JWs?” How hard is that? How hard is it for the JWs to worship the way they want without _recruiting people in their own homes?_ How hard is it to refrain from annoying the rest of the neighbohood? It’s called MANNERS. I’d love to know what the statistics are as far as door-to-door conversions goes. I’ve never met anyone who converted based on a visit from the Fuller God Salesman. ---
**Author:** ![MizGrand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cdc98d/32.png) [@MizGrand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MizGrand)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-had-a-few-lds-missionaries-visit-my-house/349749/107 "2006-03-27T18:00:13Z")
> [@OpalCat](#): > > Hi! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-had-a-few-lds-missionaries-visit-my-house/349749/108 "2006-03-27T18:10:50Z")
I’m in agreement with **A. R. Cane** and others. Generally, I’m not rude to these people when I encounter them, but I would say I’m not polite either. Unwanted visitors aren’t owed any courtesy in my book. Maybe it’s my Northeastern heritage, but I have no problem giving a curt “No thanks” or “Not interested,” just like I have no problem hanging up on telemarketers. I can hardly imagine inviting some stranger into the house because it would be rude to do otherwise. Sheesh, if it’s hot, they should have thought to bring a canteen or something along with them. I also dislike the implication that I have somehow come to the wrong decision or beliefs about basic questions about life and whatever else might be. You certainly know no better than I do, and certainly not enough to presume to be expert enough to come and blaze me with nonsense at 6:00 a.m. or 8:00 or whenever you elect to harrass me. I’ve told my anecdote about one of them who cornered me on the light rail transit before. Ultimately, I think there’s just something a little off, cognitively, with people who are such zealots. ---
**Author:** ![Missy2U](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@Missy2U](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Missy2U)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-had-a-few-lds-missionaries-visit-my-house/349749/109 "2006-03-27T18:14:40Z")
Yo, **Revtim** - [Yes, there are still Fuller Brush salesmen.](http://www.fullerbrush.info/pages/1/index.htm) Thought ya’d wanna know…😉 ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-had-a-few-lds-missionaries-visit-my-house/349749/110 "2006-03-27T18:19:23Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > Sheesh, if it’s hot, they should have thought to bring a canteen or something along with them. No need for hostility. We can always give them the hose. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-had-a-few-lds-missionaries-visit-my-house/349749/111 "2006-03-27T18:20:37Z")
My favorite thing to do when religious nuts come to my door is to let them in if they ask. Then I ask if I may make myself comfortable, when they say yes I slowly start removeing my clothes one piece at a time. Never got all the way to my skivies before they left… ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-had-a-few-lds-missionaries-visit-my-house/349749/112 "2006-03-27T19:34:03Z")
> [@the raindog](#): > > No, in fact, _I did not._ An example of me _ **Expicitly** _ calling you a liar would look like something like this: > > which may be, at best, an _ **Implicit** _ example of me calling you a liar—and that’s only if **that** is the meaning _ **you** _ attach to _ **my** _ words. That was certainly not my intent. (read: _my_ meaning) Then perhaps some remedial English lessons are in order, because what you wrote was pretty clearly an accusation of dishonesty. > [@](#): > > At any rate, for all I know you may be using a liberal creative license in re-telling the story (an extremely common thing, best I can tell), or maybe you remember the time wrong considering they woke you up, or maybe you can’t tell time, or maybe you were hung over…or maybe you’re lying. I don’t know----and to know that I woukld be required to know what you were thinking. And…I don’t know that. Or maybe what I’m saying actually happened. How the fuck do _you_ know? > [@](#): > > I _do_ know that the JWs were **not** knocking at your door at 6:00 a.m. Your clairvoyance is somewhat lacking. > [@](#): > > (FTR, I try to be quick to apologize when it is appropriate. I hope/trust you understand that I was not calling you a liar, and so at least in this instance I won’t be aplogizing.) I don’t think you’re telling the truth, here. But I’m not calling you a liar. Yeah, I think I understand everything I need to about you. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-had-a-few-lds-missionaries-visit-my-house/349749/113 "2006-03-27T19:52:49Z")
**raindog** is simply trying to undermine the argument that it is rude to awaken people on a Saturday morning by reframing “early” as “offensively early.” I’m just surprised he didn’t make his argument even easier by throwing 5:00 a.m. out there. If you knock on my door at 9:00 on a Saturday morning, I’ll be just about as offended, although I’ll probably have greater control of my faculties so that my insults will be more clear and humorous. At 6:00 a.m., you’re just going to get the violence and family-relations aspersion material. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-had-a-few-lds-missionaries-visit-my-house/349749/114 "2006-03-27T20:03:42Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Then perhaps some remedial English lessons are in order, because what you wrote was pretty clearly an accusation of dishonesty. An _ **Explicit** _ accusation? Can we start the English lesson right there please? > [@](#): > > Or maybe what I’m saying actually happened. How the fuck do _you_ know? Well…I know because I’ve seen post after post after post after post after post in these threads that share in common a complete exaggeration at best, and complete fabrication at worst. But…I also know a little about the JW process, and it is extremely standarized, virtually all over the USA. (I’m assuming you’re in the USA) I would imagine it is similar all over the globe; certainly in the US however, it is a pretty standard affair. Out of respect for the homeowner (who will likely be asleep at 6:00 a.m.) and for their own personal safety, the JWs would never be knocking at your door at 6:00 a.m. _Never._ Heck, at 6 am even the JWs are asleep! I don’t need proof—I know better. To quote Don Henley, _“I might be wrong, but I’m not.”_ > [@](#): > > I don’t think you’re telling the truth, here. > > But I’m not calling you a liar. > > Yeah, I think I understand everything I need to about you. I didn’t say you weren’t telling the truth. I’m saying you got it wrong. Only you know if you were exaggerating as to the time. But they weren’t there at 6:00 a.m. Period. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-had-a-few-lds-missionaries-visit-my-house/349749/115 "2006-03-27T20:18:42Z")
The substance of the cases cited by **the raindog** weren’t about property rights per se, but about the right of religious solicitors to practice their avocation freely, without harassment or outright prohibition from local governments. The courts held not that individuals don’t have the right not to allow them onto their premises, but that _governments_ do not have the right to control or ban their activities. Truthfully, I’d be happy if these people left me alone altogether. Fortunately, last week’s visit was the first (and only) visit we’ve gotten since we’ve lived here. Unless you count the “welcome” bag with kitchen towels and religious pamphlets when we first moved in. That was a bit odd. Robin ---
**Author:** ![swampbear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampbear/32/467_2.png) [@swampbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampbear)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-had-a-few-lds-missionaries-visit-my-house/349749/116 "2006-03-27T20:25:29Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > Truthfully, I’d be happy if these people left me alone altogether. Fortunately, last week’s visit was the first (and only) visit we’ve gotten since we’ve lived here. Unless you count the “welcome” bag with kitchen towels and religious pamphlets when we first moved in. That was a bit odd. > > Robin Maybe they thought you all were “unclean” sinners. Or, they didn’t want you to have a dirty kitchen in case Jesus came back before you got all unpacked. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-had-a-few-lds-missionaries-visit-my-house/349749/117 "2006-03-27T20:34:45Z")
Well, **raindog** , it’s clear someone in this thread is dishonest. Pretty sure it ain’t me. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-had-a-few-lds-missionaries-visit-my-house/349749/118 "2006-03-27T20:37:45Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > **raindog** is simply trying to undermine the argument that it is rude to awaken people on a Saturday morning by reframing “early” as “offensively early.” I’m just surprised he didn’t make his argument even easier by throwing 5:00 a.m. out there. If you knock on my door at 9:00 on a Saturday morning, I’ll be just about as offended, although I’ll probably have greater control of my faculties so that my insults will be more clear and humorous. At 6:00 a.m., you’re just going to get the violence and family-relations aspersion material. **Well put.** There’s only one problem: **Miller** said it was 6:00 a.m., not me. Reread the thread. Six o’clock is _offensively_ early. And it’s just not true. I think it **is** rude to intentionally wake someone on a Saturday morning if there is a reasonable expectation that they’re asleep. At 6:00 a.m. there is a high probability that _most_ people are asleep. (even the JWs incidentally) It would indeed be rude and highly inconsiderate to be knocking on doors at 6:00 a.m.–no matter who you are. JWs are aware of that—and for that reason are never\* out knocking on doors at that hour. At 9:20\*\* a.m. there is still some chance that any given homeowner is asleep. However the percentage is substantially less, and in fact most people are awake. (We’re talking 3 hours and 20 minutes later!) Even then, JWs keep information on 2 types of homeowners: 1) Do Not Call and 2) Daysleeper. When JWs meet in the morning\*\*\* those addresses that have either items 1 or 2 are noted by everyone going out and every effort is made to respect them. _This is standard practice._ Will some people still be awaken by JWs on a Saturday morning? Yep. Yet there is a fundamental difference between being awaken at 9:45 a.m. and 6:00 a.m. _But the 6:00 a.m. time makes for such a better story!_ This pure back slapping rubbish that is so common here about JWs & LDS etc knocking on doors at 6, 7 & 8 a.m. is just that: rubbish. (\*Never is a strong word, huh? I don’t use it blithely. Not only is the JW process standard virtually everywhere, but they are sensitive to both common courtesy and their own safety. They would never be knocking on your door at 6:00 a.m. Crow all you want about the raindog’s clairvoyance, but to buy that story you’ll need to suspend your own disbelief and simple common sense) (\*\*All over the country, congregations meet every single morning for the public ministry. Most congregations meet at 9:30 a.m; and some at 9:00 a.m. This meeting takes between 15 and 20 minutes and several more minutes to drive to the area in which they will be working. That typically means that the first house of the day is around 9:20 a.m. _at the earliest_, and 9:50 a.m. for the congregations that meet at 9:30 a.m. ) \*\*\*In some large urban areas, some JWs go out in the public ministry in subways, bus stops, street corners etc—that would **NOT** include residential areas. That would start between 7 and 7:30 a.m.) ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-had-a-few-lds-missionaries-visit-my-house/349749/119 "2006-03-27T20:43:01Z")
When I was in college we lived in a heavily LDS area in Oregon. There wasn’t much in the way of door to door conversion attempts, however, there were groups of younger girls that used to come about on Saturday or Sunday mornings to ask if we had any cans or bottles we could give them (Oregon is a deposit/return state). We quickly learned that on mornings following parties that you could stagger up to the door, let them in and tell them “take any empty cans or bottles that you can find”, stagger back off to bed, and they would CLEAN UP THE ENTIRE HOUSE. Seriously. For what amounted to maybe $20 to $40 dollars in returnable containers we have our house back to normal in time to watch cartoons! This was genius. Personally I don’t care if they were using the money to build missiles to shoot at my grandmothers house, this was truly a miracle. They got into the habit of coming every Saturday and Sunday for at least two years. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-had-a-few-lds-missionaries-visit-my-house/349749/120 "2006-03-27T20:43:55Z")
> [@the raindog](#): > > Will some people still be awaken by JWs on a Saturday morning? Yep. Yet there is a fundamental difference between being awaken at 9:45 a.m. and 6:00 a.m. They’re still getting the hose. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-had-a-few-lds-missionaries-visit-my-house/349749.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-had-a-few-lds-missionaries-visit-my-house/349749.md?page=7)