[QUOTE=Captain Amazing]
I don’t know…I find that depressing. The kid doesn’t do his homework and lies about it. He doesn’t need counseling, he needs a kick in the pants. His parents need to check and make sure he’s studying and doing his homework. It’s a discipline problem, not a counseling one.
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My father used to say things like that as well.
I’m so happy that there are people like you who can lecture the rest of us on the meaning of family.
When my son was 15, he was a bright kid who didn’t do his homework and, while not actively lying about it, conveniently would “forget” about assignments. Frankly, at that age it is nearly impossible to set up a system to make sure you as a parent know about all the assignments and make sure they get done – the teachers have far too many students to send individual notes home daily with what the kid should be doing as opposed to what he might happen to remember he might be supposed to do.
So what did I do? I took him to counseling. The counselor thought he was a great kid who simply didn’t have organizational skills, or any great motivation to work on subjects that didn’t interest him. (The ones that did? He got all As in.) She worked with him on that, and I don’t know what else about because, frankly, it was between them. But he found it much, much easier to talk to someone who wasn’t a parent or teacher about whatever it was that bothered him.
And guess what? His grades improved. A lot. He got into a college honors program a couple years later.
It’s easy to judge other peoples’ families without understanding the whole dynamic. It’s also easy to accuse people like me of being bad or lazy parents because our kids may have problems that we can’t seem to solve with either the carrot or the stick. I’m sorry, I refuse to be 100% responsible for everything that goes on in my son’s head. He’s his own person, and he’s had to deal with lots of stuff in his young life, and it’s important for him to learn the necessary skills to cope with all that for himself. And if the person who can teach him that is a counselor? Why should that reflect badly on me? I know my own limitations; I didn’t have good role models growing up, and sometimes I know someone else is more qualified than I am to teach my kids things they need to know.
As a fucked-up family, I’d definitely say mine qualifies. My dad’s highest compliment, ever, about anything? “It’ll pass.” He was truly incapable of giving an honest compliment. And my mother has always delivered the backhanded compliments, too. I sometimes wonder if it’s a generational thing, it seems so common in older generations. I know my grandmother wasn’t any better; that’s who my father learned never to give a compliment from, after all.
I grew up in a “normal” family, so no comments or judgements from me on other people’s family situations.
I just wanted to add that I found this book to be really useful in understanding and moving past some of the seemingly hurtful, backhanded compliments I get from my parents and siblings sometimes.
Praise didn’t come from my side of the family other than “She’s so pretty.”
Well, that motivated me towards doing better in school. Yessirreee.
Cause Prettiness is FOREVER and GETS YOU JOBS and PEOPLE GIVE YOU WADS OF MONEY WHEN YOU ARE CUTE and have a Nice ASS!!!11!!
:rolleyes: :dubious:
Yet, I was invisible at school. Yes, yes, I know. We all are.
Obviously, they were lying to me and no one told me I was really retarded or something.
So, when I met my husband, I naturally hoped his family will fill the gaping hole of need, want and acceptance ( not realizing it at this time) and my expectations were rather high. sinced lowered to below sea level.
What I got for year’s is, " You did (x) well, but I would have done it this way."
To make it more special, it is done in a German accent. I vould haf done it zis vay.
NO matter what I tried: sewing, crochet, cooking. Yanno. The domestic arts that my MIL excels at like nobody’s business. Trying to get a sewing lesson from a Master Seamstress was futile. She just finished my project every fucking time and I learned NOTHING. good times. good times.
It took me until the last few years to realize a) They were raised this way. b) they have no concept of praise c) Zhey are Ghermans which says it all. Zhey are always on time. Do it right the first time. Build it better. Manners Manners Manners…eat, eat, eat… ja ja ja
Now, after a minor implosion (thirty seconds about) with Mr. Ujest about " I vould haf done it zis vay." and how Nothink is gut enuf for his parents, while I was adding the frozen veggies to the crock potted soup awaiting the arrival of his ALWAYS ON TIME PARENTS. At the time they will be here and that is when the fun stops.
Well, they were late…LATE by twenty minutes or so. LATE? UNPOSSIBLE! Despite the fact that my FIL is in a wheelchair and my MIL does everything herself, the fact that they ever leave the house BLOWS MY FUCKING MIND because after a day of getting him ready and prep work and loading the car I’d fucking kill myself. And she’s been doing it for 16+ years now.
The veggies were in the cooker too long and were soggy. BECAUSE THEY WERE LATE.
My mother in law ( who is a very spineless and simple woman. Very old world mentality and very very codependant.) complimented me in the usual way. " That vas gut. But the wegatables were mushy. I vould haf done it zis way."
I gave a look to my husband (who smiled indulgently at me.) and then raised my hands in the air shouting, " BINGO BINGO BINGO! I WIN!"
His family thinks I’m nuts.
And the pleasure of being me, is that everyone so often my husband will follow the genetic predisoposition of ALWAYS BEING RIGHT and THE NEED TO TELL YOU THAT HOW YOU HAVE JUST DONE IT WRONG or ARE ABOUT TO DO IT IS INCORRECT but in a a nicer tone of “You’re Retarded” than his parents. and this leads to the follow exchange:
Mr. Ujest, " If you want to get the floor clean you have to use two buckets of water and rags and wash on your hands and knees."
Me. (Playing stupid.) " Two buckets of water?"
Mr. Ujest, " One to put the dirty rag into and rinse it and the other to wash the floor with. That’s how mom does it. put sparkly rainbows around that sentance along with a choir of angels. Mkay, thanks.
Me: “I don’t get it. How could that be better than *my * way?”
Mr. Ujest dutifully and excitedly finds two buckets, more rags and gets to work. By the time he looks up ( possibly giving key instruction on the exact manner to wash the floor.) I have slipped out the back door and have gone shopping.
True story.
Shirley, that is tough! I’m forever grateful that while they’re never take the place, my SO’s family is very kind and appreciates me more than my own ever did.
Anaamika, glad to hear that you’re salvaging something from your family. I wish that weren’t the best verb for what sounds like is going on.
Shirley Ujest, my other grandparents were German. My grandfather, in fact, was one who left Germany in 1933. He had the accent his whole life, and was more than merely obsessive about punctuality. So, some of the things you’re mentioning are pretty familiar.
[QUOTE=Shirley Ujest]
c) Zhey are Ghermans which says it all. Zhey are always on time. Do it right the first time. Build it better. Manners Manners Manners…eat, eat, eat… ja ja ja
[/QUOTE]
My father did a lot of business travelling to Germany in the late 80s and early nineties. He passed on an air traveller’s joke I’ve always had a soft spot for, that I think you will enjoy:
Obviously what I wrote earlier rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, and I’m sorry about that. Child abuse is a horrible thing, and nobody should have to put up with it.
It’s just that comments like “There has to come a point where individual good outweighs the social benefits of a family unit” get my hackles up, but I shouldn’t have said anything and I’m sorry.
That was a very graceful apology, and I thank you.
But I have to wonder…what good is a family unit if the individuals within it are suffering just to be in it? I think before you can have a successful family unit, you need to have the individuals want to be there and be happy to be participating.
Obviously YM does vary. Which is the whole point! 
Yes, that would be the very German thing to say. Anything less would be an insult to the entire populace of Germany.
[QUOTE=askeptic]
Dude I wasn’t there but you may be being a little harsh. If you are not known for “home improvement” projects and you did it well then it is a suprise if you complete the first one well. Without more info I say let it go accept the compliment.
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I agree with you. I haven’t read the other threads, but in and of itself, I don’t think there’s anything particularly bad about the compliment. It’s worded in a way that can be construed as offensive, I suppose, but it can also be construed as gentle ribbing. If I’m known for fucking up home improvement jobs, or have no apparent home improvement skills, I wouldn’t be offended if a family member or good friend of mine came to me and said, “If I didn’t see it, I wouldn’t have believed that you managed to do that yourself.”
[QUOTE=pulykamell]
I agree with you. I haven’t read the other threads, but in and of itself, I don’t think there’s anything particularly bad about the compliment. It’s worded in a way that can be construed as offensive, I suppose, but it can also be construed as gentle ribbing. If I’m known for fucking up home improvement jobs, or have no apparent home improvement skills, I wouldn’t be offended if a family member or good friend of mine came to me and said, “If I didn’t see it, I wouldn’t have believed that you managed to do that yourself.”
[/QUOTE]
What if, as the OP states, that is the ONLY way compliments get phrased? I think that is the point you are missing. Occasionally? No big deal. Always? Thats a different story.
Ah, family. And folks who get along with their families just don’t get it. It must be like being tone deaf or something. I envy all those who DO have happy home lives. You are truly blessed-more than you realize.
And forgive me, Surely for laughing at your Deutschland uber alles stuff–I can see the sparkly rainbow AND hear the eat, eat, eat…ja, ja, ja. 
My family of origin does not believe in physical displays of affection, words of affection or expression of…well, you see the pattern here. My parents have never told me they loved me (or my kids). The best my mother could do was to say, “you look nice” on my wedding day. It would never occur to my father that people NEED hugs or attention or loving commnents. My mother just figures that if she didn’t get any of that, why should anyone else?
And so I’m supposed to go to the wall for these people? Excuse me while I snort derisively.
Oddly enough, I do still love my parents, despite all the verbal abuse, the manipulations, the lying, the drama , the you name it. But I see them clearly and I believe in firm limits. I have been very honest with my kids re treating older people with respect (which is different than respecting them) if warranted.
My husband’s family–whole 'nother ball game. I do nothing “right”, my family traditions are NOT respected or recognized; I am treated as a second class citizen. My favorite Christmas was the one where SIL got a leather coat, husband got a portable TV and I got a pair of Calvin Klein control top, seamless, open toed black pantyhose in size small. I wear a medium. :rolleyes:
(not all holidays have been that bad, but I think I’ve made my point)
[QUOTE=Brynda]
What if, as the OP states, that is the ONLY way compliments get phrased? I think that is the point you are missing. Occasionally? No big deal. Always? Thats a different story.
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Frankly, it doesn’t matter to me. Around my circle of friends, compliments are usually hidden in friendly jibes. None of us take it personally, it’s just the way we talk. Some people are sensitive to it, I guess. shrug
[QUOTE=pulykamell]
Frankly, it doesn’t matter to me. Around my circle of friends, compliments are usually hidden in friendly jibes. None of us take it personally, it’s just the way we talk. Some people are sensitive to it, I guess. shrug
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There’s a big difference between your friends busting your balls, and not ever getting approval from a parent*. I’m pretty sure the OP is capable of recognizing that difference, so it’s not a matter of him just being “sensitive” to it.
*Okay, grandparent, in this case, but the OP says its endemic to the whole family, and that this instance was emblematic of a general dysfunction.
[QUOTE=Miller]
There’s a big difference between your friends busting your balls, and not ever getting approval from a parent*. I’m pretty sure the OP is capable of recognizing that difference, so it’s not a matter of him just being “sensitive” to it.
*Okay, grandparent, in this case, but the OP says its endemic to the whole family, and that this instance was emblematic of a general dysfunction.
[/QUOTE]
I’m only replying to what’s stated in the OP. Old grumpy grandpa says something like that to me, and I wouldn’t think twice about it. I’d just write it off as crazy old gramps expressing himself in his own unique way.
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing]
It’s just that comments like “There has to come a point where individual good outweighs the social benefits of a family unit” get my hackles up, but I shouldn’t have said anything and I’m sorry.
[/QUOTE]
I had debated really going off on you, and since you apologized, I’m glad that I didn’t.
Unfortunately, there are many people who take advantage of social structure for selfish or sick reasons, and there is no reason to subvert individual needs to a sick structure.
[QUOTE=pulykamell]
I’m only replying to what’s stated in the OP. Old grumpy grandpa says something like that to me, and I wouldn’t think twice about it. I’d just write it off as crazy old gramps expressing himself in his own unique way.
[/QUOTE]
Except that you’re ignoring the part where the OP says that everyone in his family does this, including the OP himself, and have always done this for as long as he can remember. So you’re not “only replying to what’s stated in the OP.” You’re replying to a small portion of the OP, and ignoring the context in which that portion was presented. C’mon, folks. The OP is talking about his grandfather, not your grandfather. What your grandfather would have meant by a comment like this doesn’t prove anything about what his grandfather meant by a comment like this.
[QUOTE=Miller]
Except that you’re ignoring the part where the OP says that everyone in his family does this, including the OP himself, and have always done this for as long as he can remember. So you’re not “only replying to what’s stated in the OP.” You’re replying to a small portion of the OP, and ignoring the context in which that portion was presented. C’mon, folks. The OP is talking about his grandfather, not your grandfather. What your grandfather would have meant by a comment like this doesn’t prove anything about what his grandfather meant by a comment like this.
[/QUOTE]
Fine. It doesn’t change the fact that it personally would not bother me. Some people/families just aren’t good at giving straight compliments. To me, it comes across more as ball-busting than trying to be vindictive. I honestly and personally do not think the comment in the OP is offensive. Obviously, your mileage varies.
Did your family give compliments without strings or signs of affection, such as letting you know you were loved?
[QUOTE=pulykamell]
Fine. It doesn’t change the fact that it personally would not bother me. Some people/families just aren’t good at giving straight compliments. To me, it comes across more as ball-busting than trying to be vindictive. I honestly and personally do not think the comment in the OP is offensive. Obviously, your mileage varies.
[/QUOTE]
If this type of thing is all you ever heard from any of your significant others over years, I believe you’d feel the lack of love,and maybe even need to hear a genuine, straight forward compliment or expression of affection. This stuff builds over time, as does the deficit of not hearing it. Never hearing it leads to an erosion of trust, which effects all other relationships. I struggle with this every single day in my marriage and friendships. It may once have been “ball busting” (and why would anyone want to do that, anyway?), but it is no longer just that–it’s mean.
I hope the OP can increase his awareness of this behavior and work to change it. Sounds like he and his sister have a good chance. I’d write off Grandpa, though-old dog, new tricks and all that.