# I just realized it: Bush really does not know what is going on. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 1, 2004, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-it-bush-really-does-not-know-what-is-going-on/267089 "2004-10-01T20:13:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2004, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-it-bush-really-does-not-know-what-is-going-on/267089/21 "2004-10-02T06:14:58Z")
I prefer not to think of the president as stupid. I prefer to think of him of as heartless and evil. But not stupid. He understands what’s going on. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2004, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-it-bush-really-does-not-know-what-is-going-on/267089/22 "2004-10-02T06:18:57Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Of course Bush knows what’s going on. Can’t you recognize SPIN? He’s saying everything is fine because it’s his sales pitch. His strategy in the debates, such as it is, is to keep repeating the mantra that makes a lot of voters feel at ease; “everything’s okay, I am a strong leader.” It’s all spin, and it works. Point B does not necessarily follow from Point A, Rick. Yes, it is spin, DUH. That says absolutely zero about whether or not Bush knows the realities he’s spinning. It is my contention, based on widely acknowledged facts about how and from whom Bush gets his information, that the information comes to him pre-spun. We have absolutely no reason or evidence to believe it is otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Blonde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Blonde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blonde)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2004, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-it-bush-really-does-not-know-what-is-going-on/267089/23 "2004-10-02T23:11:23Z")
Well, one thing is for sure (in my mind) - Bush doesn’t understand how to choose handlers that can coach him on the finer points of the debate process. To parphrase Carlson Tucker, “Listening to Bush speak is like watching a drunk man cross an icy street.” His inability to convince us that he understands what he’s up against just might be his downfall in this election. Cringing in Texas ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2004, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-it-bush-really-does-not-know-what-is-going-on/267089/24 "2004-10-02T23:59:22Z")
Spinning isn’t something that just anyone can do. I’m with **Stoid** on this point. I see no evidence that Dub can produce any Original Spin. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-it-bush-really-does-not-know-what-is-going-on/267089/25 "2004-10-03T01:03:28Z")
> [@iampunha](#): > > Quite frankly, if I had the choice between reading an article in the WaPo and a classified document with a heavier saturation of facts, guess which one I’d choose. Being President doesn’t come with a six-hour extension to one’s day. Any day now he’ll get around to reading the breifing that said Al Queada is planning on attcacking the US. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-it-bush-really-does-not-know-what-is-going-on/267089/26 "2004-10-03T04:18:42Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > I prefer not to think of the president as stupid. > > I prefer to think of him of as heartless and evil. > > But not stupid. He understands what’s going on. I’d probably prefer to think that, too. It’s a little reassuring to think there is some order to what happens, that _someone’s_ interests are being served. To quote some Doper or other, the conspiracy theorists are the only people in this country who think we have a effective, functioning government. My motto, however, is “Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence.” In Bush’s case, that’s just about everything. Now Rove and Cheney…that’s another matter. That’s evil. \ I suppose we should be greatful that they haven’t found someone _smart_ to do their bidding, and that someone is around to keep Georgie away from anything _too_ important, like, say, The Button. Oh, yeah, and regarding this: > [@](#): > > One of his campaign people alleged that Prime Minister Allawi was like a puppet. That’s no way to treat somebody who’s courageous and brave that is trying to lead his country forward. You don’t think Bush did the coaching _himself_, do you? Bush sees Mr. Allawi doing what he thinks every strong, decisive, courageous leader should do: whatever Karl and Dick tell him to! Ok, that was a nice rant, but seriously–I wasn’t able to watch the debate live (I will watch it, though) but I heard about half of it rebroadcast on the radio today. Bush, of course, kept accusing Kerry of flip-flopping, etc. The way he did this (and the things he said this _in response to_ led me to the conclusion that Bush honestly doesn’t understand how anyone could have a nuanced position. His world is so incredibly black-and-white that when Kerry says he agreed with Bush’s goal but not his method or priorities, Bush actually thinks that’s a flip-flop! If he’s not 100% in agreement or 100% opposed, he must be inconsistant! (Incredible!) ---
**Author:** ![JonScribe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3be4f8/32.png) [@JonScribe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonScribe)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-it-bush-really-does-not-know-what-is-going-on/267089/27 "2004-10-03T05:31:11Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Since Bush is on a steady course, polls-wise, to win re-election… [Oh?](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&e=4&u=/nm/20041003/pl_nm/campaign_newsweek_poll_dc) ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-it-bush-really-does-not-know-what-is-going-on/267089/28 "2004-10-03T05:37:04Z")
> [@JonScribe](#): > > [Oh?](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&e=4&u=/nm/20041003/pl_nm/campaign_newsweek_poll_dc) [Oh!](http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Presidential_Tracking_Poll.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-it-bush-really-does-not-know-what-is-going-on/267089/29 "2004-10-03T05:50:18Z")
Good Christ! Enough with the fucking polls!! ---
**Author:** ![JonScribe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3be4f8/32.png) [@JonScribe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonScribe)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-it-bush-really-does-not-know-what-is-going-on/267089/30 "2004-10-03T06:20:57Z")
My point exactly. Bush cannot be said to be on a “steady course, polls-wise, to win re-election.” There is nothing steady about the goddam polls. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-it-bush-really-does-not-know-what-is-going-on/267089/31 "2004-10-04T03:30:48Z")
I think it’s ridiculous to say that virtually all negaitive information about Iraq (or the economy, or most anything else, for that matter) is being withheld and/or hidden from Dubya. As Johnathan Chance says, the process simply doesn’t allow it. He is getting competently prepared news summaries, and intelligence briefs. I can’t say whether he reads them or understands them, but they surely make it onto his desk. He is simply ignoring those items which are inconvenient. He is making incredibly stupid decisions, or allowing them to be made in his name. What’s worse, once he makes a choice, he is unwilling to reverse himself even after overwhelming evidence that the wrong choice was made. The only times he reverses himself are when his own party threatens rebellion and the Republican House or Senate leadership steps out publicly against him. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-it-bush-really-does-not-know-what-is-going-on/267089/32 "2004-10-04T05:29:29Z")
> [@Boyo Jim](#): > > The only times he reverses himself are when his own party threatens rebellion and the Republican House or Senate leadership steps out publicly against him. Let’s see if there are any reversals after this one: > [@](#): > > [In the Senate, Raising a (Quiet) Republican Voice Against the Administration](http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/04/politics/04chafee.html?oref=login&oref=login) (reg req) > > WASHINGTON, Oct. 3 - One day after the Supreme Court sealed the 2000 election for George W. Bush, his running mate, Dick Cheney, went to the Capitol for a private lunch with five moderate Republican senators. The agenda he laid out that day in December 2000 stunned **Senator Lincoln Chafee of Rhode Island** , sending Mr. Chafee on a painful journey of political conscience that, he said in an interview last week, has culminated with **his decision not to vote for Mr. Bush in November**. > > “I literally was close to falling off my chair,” Mr. Chafee said, recounting the vice president’s proposals for steep tax cuts, missile defense programs and abandoning the Kyoto environmental accords. "It was no room for discussion. I said, ‘Well, you’re going to need us; it’s a 50-50 Senate, you’re going to need us moderates.’ He said, ‘Well, we need everybody.’ ‘’ > > For Mr. Chafee, who was a prep school buddy of the president’s brother Jeb and whose father, the late Senator John Chafee, was close to the first President Bush, that day was the beginning of an estrangement with the president, whom he had worked to elect. In the months since, he has opposed Mr. Bush on everything from tax cuts to gay marriage and the war in Iraq. Now, this life-long Republican has concluded that he cannot cast his ballot for the leader of his party. > > “I’ll vote Republican,” he said, explaining that he would choose a write-in candidate, perhaps George Bush the elder, as a symbolic act of protest. Asked if he wanted Senator John Kerry to be president, Mr. Chafee shook his head sadly, as if to say he could not entertain the question. “I’ve been disloyal enough,” he said. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-it-bush-really-does-not-know-what-is-going-on/267089/33 "2004-10-04T06:11:34Z")
Speaking of intelligence, Bush mentioned several times during the debate that Kerry received the same information Bush had on various topics. My only response when he said that was “good god, I hope not.” With the levels of decision required from the head of the Executive Branch, I would sincerely hope Bush is more competently informed than any random person in the Legislative Branch. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-it-bush-really-does-not-know-what-is-going-on/267089/34 "2004-10-05T21:26:53Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > Speaking of intelligence, Bush mentioned several times during the debate that Kerry received the same information Bush had on various topics. My only response when he said that was “good god, I hope not.” With the levels of decision required from the head of the Executive Branch, I would sincerely hope Bush is more competently informed than any random person in the Legislative Branch. Kerry is not receiving classified briefings merely because he is a Senator. He is receiving classified briefings prepared for him by the Bush administration because he is the other major party candidate. From [here](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13218-2004Aug18.html): > [@](#): > > …Over the past 50 years, challengers have traditionally been given worldwide intelligence briefings in the days or weeks after their nominating conventions… ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-it-bush-really-does-not-know-what-is-going-on/267089/35 "2004-10-05T21:37:59Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Kerry is not receiving classified briefings merely because he is a Senator. He is receiving classified briefings prepared for him by the Bush administration because he is the other major party candidate. > > From [here](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13218-2004Aug18.html): So what has it been, 2 months? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-it-bush-really-does-not-know-what-is-going-on/267089.md?page=1)